Diet Thread

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:06 pm

CKinnard wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:mmm... I'll ask about the macular degeneration

Thanks CK


Yes it is macular degeneration


ok, and right on queue in my utube subscriptions this morning:

diet recommendations for AMD (summarized as "fish, green, and gold")
https://youtu.be/YT_0oSieal4?t=17m25s

about supplements for AMD (if diet is as described above, supplements offer no advantage)
https://youtu.be/YT_0oSieal4?t=20m53s

This guy is sticking to the small amount of literature in his diet recommendations though. i.e. fish 3 times a week is from one study, and I don't know if studies have been done of

If you are inclined, the video's explanation of AMD pathophysiology is very good.

edit:
some good stuff I found in 5 minutes:
https://www.drfuhrman.com/learn/health- ... generation
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/preven ... with-diet/
https://nutritionfacts.org/video/dietar ... eneration/


Thanks CK, that's really good. I'm going to send to the daughter, as the elder doesn't have the internet, nor know how to use it.

Interesting that what he said about food was almost exactly what the elder said. The elder said Salmon and green leafy vegetables. I suppose the Salmon as distinct from fish could be to do with cooking in vegetable oil as the Salmon avoids the cooking.

One clarification. He said that Olive oil was good, was he referring to it in its raw sate, for example added to a salad or was he referring to cooking the fish in olive oil? I'm just wondering if heating the olive oil may transform it into something that has the same issue as vegetable oil, for this particular purpose.
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:02 pm

Hey don't sweat the occasional jab at me Nobody.
I enjoy the banter. You are perhaps the most level headed and well researched WFPB person I know, and very rational. So I enjoy discussing the subject with you.

As for my addictions, I did finally realize my physiology is too prone to getting 'addicted' to wine, as in I really enjoy it and eventually have daily cravings. However, if i stay away from it until the cravings ease, I don't have any trouble leaving it alone. i.e. didn't touch any in the last 2 US trips, and haven't touched it this year...zero cravings. zero temptation to visit a bottle shop or walk into one when passing.

As for animal bits, I went about 7 years without touching them when a vegetarian. and had a strong repulsion to it. I don't feel that repulsion now, but I certainly haven't craved meat this year. But if i went to a friend's house and they served up meat, I'd probably eat it. Going to the shops too I just don't have any inclination to look at meat. So something has changed.

Based on this, I cannot help but believe consciousness and emotions have a significant influence on our appetite. The thing I've done differently this year is I started with a 7 day water fast, and maybe I should attribute that with the extinguishing wrong cravings.

My less than 100% commitment to WFPB is because I don't feel I know the science well enough, and I know it better than most. It is also based on too many professionals I have engaged being too blind to the literature that counters their entrenched belief. So I want to remain flexible enough that I can interpret low carb or omnivore research impartially. There is some very good science coming from their side now, and beneficial stuff. In a professional setting, I aim to be able to represent all of the science as balanced as I can. If I get a devout meat eater, I want to be able to give him pros and cons, and also an informed view on animal produce thresholds for health.

More personally, I think the difference between me eating 100% wfpb and 95% is not going to make as significant an impact on my longevity as non diet choices and values will.
And when I use the word longevity, I innately accept it is strongly associated with better quality of life, retaining independent functionality and more of it later into life. That's a given in my books.

I suppose a good question is "How would I bring up my children diet wise?"
I would have no trouble not feeding them dairy or eggs.
However I might feed them fish once a week.

regarding salt, that's another issue for me. If someone is a heavy sweater and does a lot of cardio, I am not convinced the recommended adequate intake applies. But if one is to take salt, I think it is better they take sodium AND potassium chloride.

As for the facebook group, yes well, I am not going to become a regular contributor. It's female dominated, and there's a plethora of people trying to position themselves as authorities on this topic or that. And trying to engage them in reasoned debate is futile. And I haven't even tried....just seen the back and forth between others. So much forthrightness, based on personal anecdote. Amazing.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:10 pm

mikesbytes wrote:One clarification. He said that Olive oil was good, was he referring to it in its raw sate, for example added to a salad or was he referring to cooking the fish in olive oil? I'm just wondering if heating the olive oil may transform it into something that has the same issue as vegetable oil, for this particular purpose.


Mike I'll have to watch those bits again. I remember being confused about the oil because I thought he said no vegetable oils.....and then a few minutes later he is recommending olive oil.

Anyway, I think that was based on one study of a Mediterranean diet. I think Greger brings up other studies that have lower incidence that don't include oil.

Either way, if your 90 something grandma has enough meat on her, and her digestive tract isn't too problematic, I'd suggest she go without oil altogether. Might be tough if she is not used to it though. Sometimes though, the elderly don't have a healthy appetite so don't get enough Calories. Personally, I think this is indicative they know they are fading, and wish to end it sooner. I don't have an issue with this at all.....for many I think it is a natural part of passing on. So always respect the mindset of the elderly in this respect. I've seen enough people go throught the last few weeks of life absolutely miserable and in pain, when if left to their own devices they would have exited cleaner. In days of yore, many elderly just stopped eating. It is by all accounts I've researched, a comparatively comfortable way to pass.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:07 pm

Had a chat with the daughter, there's a leaning towards changing the diet. I suspect that means adding fish and green salad. Most things eaten have been boiled or steamed or frozen meals provided by the daughter, so the easier change is in what the daughter provides.

Obtaining green salad is a little more difficult, though it can be acquired once a week. I do recall you use to be able to buy a lettuce that came in a pot and could sit on the window still - pick off the bottom leaves. I'll discuss with the daughter about the access to fresh green salad, should be a solution to more than once a week delivery.

What about frozen, I brought a broccoli and green bean mix the other day, could frozen substitute for the poor access to fresh?
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:36 pm

mikesbytes wrote:What about frozen, I brought a broccoli and green bean mix the other day, could frozen substitute for the poor access to fresh?


absolutely frozen veg is good.
older people have older digestive tracts too! that don't produce enough stomach acids and digestive enzymes....plus their teeth and jaws can't always handle all the chewing on raw.

I'd still encourage them to do bulk fibrous carbs (vege) cos that will help keep them very regular and keep their microbiome healthy.
When I contracted to nursing homes, I created exercise classes given by the staff that included variations on yoga for the abdomen. This helps to keep the digestive muscles from seizing up (ileus) and stimulates blood flow through the gut. Sitting around all day tends to result in blood pooling in major veins and not circulating adequately around the body, esp the gut.

just be mindful if they are incontinent of feces. if they are, and they start taking more fiber, they are probably going to 'soil' themselves more often. Ah memories of being a hospital physio!

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Baalzamon » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:26 pm

CKinnard wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:One clarification. He said that Olive oil was good, was he referring to it in its raw sate, for example added to a salad or was he referring to cooking the fish in olive oil? I'm just wondering if heating the olive oil may transform it into something that has the same issue as vegetable oil, for this particular purpose.


Mike I'll have to watch those bits again. I remember being confused about the oil because I thought he said no vegetable oils.....and then a few minutes later he is recommending olive oil.


It's because olive's are a fruit not a vege! They do come off a tree and contain a seed hence = fruit. Cooking a good quality virgin olive oil can oxidize it.
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:22 pm

Baalzamon wrote:It's because olive's are a fruit not a vege! They do come off a tree and contain a seed hence = fruit. Cooking a good quality virgin olive oil can oxidize it.


point taken....BUT

avocados, beans, pea pods, corn, cucumbers, nuts, olives, peppers, sunflower seeds and tomatoes are technically fruit.
and strawberries aren't berries but bananas are.

and it seems "vegetable oil" is an imprecise catchall term. i.e.

canola is a grain
sunflowers and safflowers oils are made from the seeds or fruit of flowers.
soybeans are legumes
....so they are not vegetables.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetable_oil

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:15 am

Interesting points guys

So where does this leave me with the Macular Degeneration question as to what will negate the value of the nutrition in fish?
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Fri Feb 09, 2018 1:56 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Interesting points guys

So where does this leave me with the Macular Degeneration question as to what will negate the value of the nutrition in fish?


if she is overweight, she doesn't need olive oil,, but would benefit from blended flax seed stored in the freezer! :)

if she is ideal weight, ditto.

if she is underweight, do small amounts of olive oil and up to 3 x 80-100g serves of salmon or deep sea fish per week.
But remember the study the ophthalmologist was referring to was ONE study.

There's other studies showing less AMD with a WFPB diet....but I got the impression one of the daughters had settled on a diet with fish, and the grandmother was set on that anyway.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:27 pm

CKinnard wrote:Hey don't sweat the occasional jab at me Nobody.

It wasn't meant to be a jab. I said "You also may..." indicating the evidence points to the possibility. But only you know if you really have the problem.

CKinnard wrote:I enjoy the banter.You are perhaps the most level headed and well researched WFPB person I know, and very rational. So I enjoy discussing the subject with you.

I think many do. But last time I engaged in banter on these forums with WH1, we were pulled up by the mods.

CKinnard wrote:You are perhaps the most level headed and well researched WFPB person I know, and very rational. So I enjoy discussing the subject with you.

Thanks for the kind words. :)
You are many people's diet reference or expert on these forums. If I'm well researched, it's because I know if I'm not, that you'll correct me. Which is a benefit.

CKinnard wrote:As for my addictions, I did finally realize my physiology is too prone to getting 'addicted' to wine, as in I really enjoy it and eventually have daily cravings. However, if i stay away from it until the cravings ease, I don't have any trouble leaving it alone. i.e. didn't touch any in the last 2 US trips, and haven't touched it this year...zero cravings. zero temptation to visit a bottle shop or walk into one when passing.

As for animal bits, I went about 7 years without touching them when a vegetarian. and had a strong repulsion to it. I don't feel that repulsion now, but I certainly haven't craved meat this year. But if i went to a friend's house and they served up meat, I'd probably eat it. Going to the shops too I just don't have any inclination to look at meat. So something has changed.

Based on this, I cannot help but believe consciousness and emotions have a significant influence on our appetite. The thing I've done differently this year is I started with a 7 day water fast, and maybe I should attribute that with the extinguishing wrong cravings.

Last year I had an addiction to Madjool dates. It took some time but I don't even see if they stock them at the supermarket anymore.
I believe the more conscientious identify and work toward removing their addictions. While the less conscientious get stuck in the rut and blame external factors for their problems.

CKinnard wrote:More personally, I think the difference between me eating 100% wfpb and 95% is not going to make as significant an impact on my longevity as non diet choices and values will.

Having values are definitely a benefit. But values or principals can also lead one into making sacrifices for others which compromise one's physical and/or mental health for the benefit of others. Values may not all be positive in regard to health.

As for the 5% animal products:
From the Kim Williams video I posted earlier.
https://youtu.be/ZLtvkuUZUvE?t=31m26s

The HRs (95% CI) of all-cause mortality were 0.66 (0.59–0.75) when 3% of energy from plant protein was substituted for an equivalent amount of protein from processed red meat, 0.88 (0.84–0.92) from unprocessed red meat, 0.94 (0.90–0.99) from poultry, 0.94 (0.89–0.99) from fish, 0.81 (0.75–0.88) from eggs, and 0.92 (0.87–0.96) from dairy.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5048552/


CKinnard wrote:I suppose a good question is "How would I bring up my children diet wise?"
I would have no trouble not feeding them dairy or eggs.
However I might feed them fish once a week.

Due to the link/association with auto-immune diseases, I'd prefer them to avoid all animal products. Fortunately for me, my youngest will be 18 in a month and they don't have any known auto-immune diseases yet. Not that I really have a say in what they eat.
I met a new guard at work who says he has a mild version of MS. So there doesn't appear to be any shortage of people with auto-immune diseases.

CKinnard wrote:regarding salt, that's another issue for me. If someone is a heavy sweater and does a lot of cardio, I am not convinced the recommended adequate intake applies. But if one is to take salt, I think it is better they take sodium AND potassium chloride.

When sweating a lot, is it better to take a complete sport drink type supplement? After all, one who sweats heavily will become deficient in many trace minerals. Won't they?

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Fri Feb 09, 2018 5:12 pm

From my delving into the literature between 6 and 13 years ago, average qty of main elements lost in 1 liter of sweat when performing endurance acitivites such as bike or running in sub tropical heat and humidity:
sodium 800mg
potassium 150mg
calcium 25mg
Magnesium 12mg
zinc 0.6mg

1 liter/hour of sweat will easily be lost for heavier sweaters doing sub lactate threshold exercise in the sub tropics.

To replace the quantities above, one must account for ion absorption efficiency, which are:
K 90%
Na 90%
Ca 30%
Mg 50%
Zn 60%

It is also important to know factors that influence absorption efficiency, such as glucose facilitation of Na and K transport; and the electrolyte composition (potassium citrate is absorbed better than potassium chloride).

As for replacement recommendations:

- if you are exercising for up to 90 minutes, you don't need an electrolyte replacement hydration strategy.

- >90 minutes is advisable at the rate that you are losing fluid. this can only be determined by careful self measurement. i.e.

bodyweight immediately before event
+ fluid taken during event
- urination during event
- bodyweight at end of event
/ number of hours
= sweat and evaporative losses per hour

I created my own formula based on reverse engineering sweat 13 years ago, well before there was anything as concentrated.
About 8 years ago, niche products started entering the market.
I've never seen one approach the proportions of mine though, nor have a read a product blurb that says the product has been designed based on sweat analysis and reverse engineering.
Many are marketed to prevent cramps, and bias their elements based on the literature for what causes cramps. But that literature is seriously incomplete.

BTW, I consulted with a compounding pharmacist in designing my formula, and investigated commercializing it under the name "Bruce Juice".
I won't expand on why I didn't proceed, but I wished I had now. Nothing ventured, nothing gained!

p.s.
keep in mind that Ca, Mg, and Zn losses are quickly recovered via diet when you consider you are likely to eat more during and after extended endurance exercise.
Na and K are the ones that require replacement during and shortly after.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:57 pm

CKinnard wrote:....but I got the impression one of the daughters had settled on a diet with fish, and the grandmother was set on that anyway.

This is pretty close to where it was yesterday

Unfortunately today is another day and today its a decision to not make any changes to diet and take the supplements. I don't know if this is a decision made on face value or a decision made to prevent being a bother, ie rather than saying what they want they say what works best with not being a bother. Either way our time has been wasted.

Now the task for me to do is to research the supplements. I quick surf has shown there is a wide range of prices online but until I look at the details then I wont know
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:13 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Now the task for me to do is to research the supplements. I quick surf has shown there is a wide range of prices online but until I look at the details then I wont know


ah well....ya win some and ya lose some :)

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby User Name » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:05 am

"high" protein diet may prevent alzheimer's

https://www.sbs.com.au/food/health/arti ... rs-disease

"The research, published this week in Journal of Alzheimer's Disease, examined the diets of 541 Australians to determine the impact of protein on levels of amyloid beta (Aβ) levels in the brain – a precursor to Alzheimer’s disease.

The participants were divided into three groups based on their protein intake. The results showed that participants who consumed higher levels of protein – around 118 grams a day – were 12 times less likely to have high levels of Aβ than those in the lowest consumption group, who ate only 54 grams per day.

“The research clearly demonstrates that the more protein eaten the lower the chances someone has of having a high Aβ burden on the brain, which corresponds to a lower risk of developing Alzheimer’s in the future,” says lead researcher Dr Binosha Fernando.

The study is said to be the first ever to examine the relationship between protein consumption and Aβ. "

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:36 am

User Name wrote:"high" protein diet may prevent alzheimer's

https://www.sbs.com.au/food/health/arti ... rs-disease


absolute junk science.
this totally ignores mountains of research showing BP is lower and longevity is higher in diets the opposite to this.

It is ludicrous that the researchers cannot think of the confounding variables of a study that does nothing other than categorize protein into three levels.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:09 am

The five worst diets that will cause you harm

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/lifestyle/the-five-worst-diets-that-will-cause-you-harm/news-story/d8ba74c12e6f830e2989d8ef127b7ae4

According to the article, the worst are:
Keto
Dukan
5:2 or Fast Diet
Hormone Diet
Paleo

The winning spots went to diets rich in fruits, vegetables, wholegrain carbohydrates and lean protein sources, diets that are nutritionally balanced and diets with science and evidence to back up their claims.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Mon Feb 26, 2018 4:17 pm

http://www.who.int/gho/ncd/risk_factors/overweight/en/
http://www.who.int/gho/ncd/risk_factors/overweight_obesity/obesity_adults/en/

I found these interactive overweight and obesity charts interesting. The obesity one is the most telling. If you mouse over the "Distribution by country" chart, you'll see that weight gain is reasonably consistent throughout the world since 1975. Most increasing in overweight by about half in that period of time. Which IMO the USA and particularly the USDA has a lot to do with, since most countries have been influences by the USA in some way.

Also almost all countries have at least 20% of people overweight. Where in 1975 it was about two thirds of countries.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:49 pm

Less than one in 100 stroke survivors meet heart health goals
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/01/180124181716.htm

It's no surprise to me that so few meet the goals considering that they probably had the stroke because of their lifestyle in the first place. Having said that, achieving all those goals consistently are going to be difficult. For someone battling back from complications of a stroke, along with being outside the goal range on a number of those measurements, it may take years to get there.

For those who don't want to read the article, the goals are below:
- getting regular physical activity
- eating a healthy diet
- achieving normal body mass index
- achieving normal blood pressure
- achieving normal blood sugar
- achieving normal total cholesterol.

Slow eating speed may be linked to weight loss
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 190938.htm
And they conclude: "Changes in eating habits can affect obesity, BMI, and waist circumference. Interventions aimed at reducing eating speed may be effective in preventing obesity and lowering the associated health risks."


Vitamin deficiency in later life
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/12/171215111605.htm
They only studied 4 elements and found 2 lacking.
Their analysis focused on levels of four micronutrients: vitamin D, folate, vitamin B12 and iron.

One in two persons aged 65 and above has suboptimal levels of vitamin D in the blood and one in four older adults has suboptimal vitamin B12 levels.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby march83 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:10 pm

I think mindful eating is one of the marginal gains of dieting. I find it much easier to eat slowly, I feel more satisfied and I enjoy the process a whole lot more when I eat without the distractions of screens, music, other people, etc. That said, I think it's just a small slice of the mental health pie - eating socially is important, making the most of limited down time is important to relieve stress, etc.

Deficiency in vitD is widespread and confounded by other elements which are required for absorption, eg magnesium so deficiencies go hand in hand.
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Fri Mar 02, 2018 5:37 pm

Without exception, the busier I am the less I eat, as long as it is not super stressy busy.
i.e. today I had no breakfast, a soy flat white at 9.30a, 3 cups of home made lentil and vege soup for lunch.....and that's it. Had a well paced and interesting day at work, and not hungry at all.
Total Cals in 600 Cals.
Total out so far 1400Cals.
Have had over 2 liters water.

Regarding nutrition deficiencies, I don't take anything as gospel truth these days.
I've seen enough sloppy rigid thinking in science and med that has been revised time and again, or just does not have adequate science to back the emphatic stance.

Vitamin D is a good example. They only upped the safe minimum level about 10 years ago, and overnight about 30% of women were suddenly deficient.
I think we'll find one day that there's more critical health criteria than having ideal mineral content in our blood 24/7.
I'd be more concerned about reserve GFR and calcium in the coronary arteries and joint capsules.
One thing I am pursuing at the moment is to see if age related macular degeneration desposits in the eyes can be reversed with a clean diet. These are called drusen. They can be visualized with a quality ophthalmoscope. If they can be cleared in addition to atherosclerosis being reversed in optic arterioles, it would be the most non invasive test to track the effects of diet and lifestyle. The majority of Westerners over 15 have drusen.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby Nobody » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:20 pm

CKinnard wrote:Regarding nutrition deficiencies, I don't take anything as gospel truth these days.
I've seen enough sloppy rigid thinking in science and med that has been revised time and again, or just does not have adequate science to back the emphatic stance.

Vitamin D is a good example. They only upped the safe minimum level about 10 years ago, and overnight about 30% of women were suddenly deficient.
I think we'll find one day that there's more critical health criteria than having ideal mineral content in our blood 24/7.

Agree that the authorities probably don't know the ideal minimum levels. Calcium is another good example because it could come down to how acidic your diet is, or how much you sweat as to how much you really need.

As for me:
Still taking zinc in an attempt to lower my iron absorption. Only about 7mg/d at the moment. I'm due for another hemo blood test this month, but I won't know the results until about June.

Still exploring the possibility that iodine deficiency is affecting me. So far, I'd say there are greater influences on how I feel day to day rather than how much iodine I'm taking. No startling health changes at 225 mcg/d after about a week. Which may mean I wasn't deficient, or maybe I need a month or two to be sure. I'll probably continue to take it into the future, since I've already bought more than a year's supply. I just hope it lowers my TSH back down again and doesn't mess me up from getting too much.

In regard to omega-3, the evidence so far suggests I would be foolish over the long term not to at least test whether I'm converting the ALA well or not. So I'll ask a colleague at work how he went about getting his omega-3 index tested and then chase the same. If I'm below 4.4, I'll supplement. If not, I'll do the test again in the years to come.

CKinnard wrote:One thing I am pursuing at the moment is to see if age related macular degeneration desposits in the eyes can be reversed with a clean diet. These are called drusen. They can be visualized with a quality ophthalmoscope. If they can be cleared in addition to atherosclerosis being reversed in optic arterioles, it would be the most non invasive test to track the effects of diet and lifestyle. The majority of Westerners over 15 have drusen.

I'll be interested to know if it can be done. I remember one of the benefits of the rice diet was to reverse "Hemorrhages and Exudates".
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2013nl/dec/kempner.htm
I'm due to another eye exam this year where they take a photo of the back of the eye. I may show some interest to find out if my eyes have got worse or not since the last photo.

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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Mar 02, 2018 8:29 pm

Nobody wrote:Less than one in 100 stroke survivors meet heart health goals
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/01/180124181716.htm

It's no surprise to me that so few meet the goals considering that they probably had the stroke because of their lifestyle in the first place. Having said that, achieving all those goals consistently are going to be difficult. For someone battling back from complications of a stroke, along with being outside the goal range on a number of those measurements, it may take years to get there.

For those who don't want to read the article, the goals are below:
- getting regular physical activity
- eating a healthy diet
- achieving normal body mass index
- achieving normal blood pressure
- achieving normal blood sugar
- achieving normal total cholesterol.


People want to die, its easier to die and to change your lifestyle to meet those goals and as we all know those goals are important for a lot of things

CK, one of my peps was talking about gluten and mentioned that one of the reasons for the increase in gluten consumption was due to the method of making bread. She stated that the old method of letting the dough sit overnight has gone and what the overnight method did was that the yeast consumed some of the gluten. What's your take on this?
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:25 pm

Mike, my take on bread and gluten is that there's been a lot of cross and selective breeding of grains. It's like wild rice versus mass produced commercial brown rice.

I'd say the % and structure of grain is very different to what it was 200 years ago. Its funny how government and industry always offer these half baked (bun intended) excuses and refutations for how mass grown crops might be no good for us.

One thing is for sure, between diet and vaccinations, the human immune system is not the same as it was 200 years ago.

---------------

Nobody, I had another patient today. lots of medical consults for her problem jaw (TMJ) dentists, orthodontist, GPs, chiropractors.... amazing journey the patient has been on. As usual I ask a zillion questions in my history taking..... as Michael Klaper says, 'get the history right, and it will deliver you the diagnosis on a silver platter'. I have to agree. Anyway this patient also has a chronic shoulder on the opposite side. So I treat the shoulder first as it was potentially easier. patient is amazed with gains in shoulder movement. Then to the jaw issue. So I go straight to her upper 3 neck joints, and 3 minutes later get her up to re-test.....pain free jaw movement....and the metaphorical jaw drop!
there were several clues in her history that she DOES indeed have a loose TMJ articular disc but this could not explain her full range of symptoms.
Once again, lazy time pressed clinicians with too few pigeon holes to stick things in.
Once again a computerized assessment algorithm would have done a better job.
So that was a win....

OTOH, I had an 8yo dancer with a problem ankle. I did a thorough examination of her lower back and lower limbs....got the diagnosis in the bag, and decided not to treat but refer to Qld's top two ballet and dance physios. I don't see enough to get the best result for a rising star like this little pocket rocket, and this condition could very well end her dreams.
Too many health pros don't know when to refer on!

So yet another day where health care is proved again to be less science rooted and practised than many think.

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mikesbytes
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby mikesbytes » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:50 pm

That's my understanding that the increase of gluten is due to the breeding. I was just wondering about the comment of the bread making procedure.

Sadly there are those out there that are totally dependent on fast food
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/kfc-chicken-shortage-gmp-999-call-police-time-waste-emergency-fast-food-restaurant-a8233421.html
If the R-1 rule is broken, what happens to N+1?

CKinnard
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Re: Diet Thread

Postby CKinnard » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:44 am

mikesbytes wrote:That's my understanding that the increase of gluten is due to the breeding. I was just wondering about the comment of the bread making procedure.

Sadly there are those out there that are totally dependent on fast food
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/kfc-chicken-shortage-gmp-999-call-police-time-waste-emergency-fast-food-restaurant-a8233421.html


I am not up on the differences between bread making technique of now and yore.
I have looked into it over the years. The Essenes used to believe in a 'living bread', and I messed around with baking bread in a very low heat oven with sprouted wheat, but can't remember it going well! :)

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