Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
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Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby Tomodachi » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:31 pm
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby find_bruce » Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:11 pm
About the only thing I can think you missed is the lack of connections - ie its not too bad if you want to go from Milsons Point to Central, but fails badly if you want to cross the cbd. King St is not for the easily intimidated, Liverpool St looks like it should work, but you end up with 2 one way streets - such a shame the wouldn't extend it for 1 more block to Elizabeth St.
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby trailgumby » Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:07 pm
Sydney City Council is very pro-bike and keen to reduce car usage in the CBD to make it more liveable and business friendly, but Roads and Maritime Services is still stuck in a 1960s car-centric outlook, probably because their exectutives' KPIs and hence remuneration are tied to maximising motor vehicle movements rather than people movements. RMS unfortunately has final say on any infrastructure implementation.
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby Tomodachi » Sun Apr 29, 2018 2:27 pm
On another note, do you think once the tram system that supposed to run down George Street, when up and running, will allow cyclists to use it?
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby AndrewCowley » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:22 pm
An expensive eyesore. Especially when the proposal as it stands only creates a ramp that goes nowhere. The money would be better spent on other cycling infrastructure. I use those steps 5 days a week (x2) commuting to and from work and don't really have a problem with them.Tomodachi wrote:What do you think about the new ramp they are supposed to build to replace the 55 steps at Milsons point? From the renders I've seen on RMS website it looks visually obtrusive, so I'm sort of in two minds about it.
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby mikesbytes » Sun Apr 29, 2018 8:58 pm
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby zebee » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:03 am
Being I presume adult, fit, fully able bodied, and using a reasonably light single track bicycle without a trailer.AndrewCowley wrote: An expensive eyesore. Especially when the proposal as it stands only creates a ramp that goes nowhere. The money would be better spent on other cycling infrastructure. I use those steps 5 days a week (x2) commuting to and from work and don't really have a problem with them.
If you aren't all those things, the steps are rather more difficult.
When my left leg is acting up I can't push a Brompton up those, never mind my steel recumbent. Haven't tried the lighter current 'bent but it's not just the weight it's the configuration. The trike is impossible without help. Can't do it if I have a trailer, so parents with kiddie trailers are out of luck. Ones with small kids are too. Disabled or elderly on three wheels, forget it.
While everyone equates cyclist with "adult, fit, able bodied, lightly or unloaded single track bicycle" we won't get much more cycling happening in this city. All infra has to manage the young, the old, the less fit, the less able, the load carrier, the beginner, the fearful. Because there aren't enough fit able bodied confident riders to get critical mass.
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby find_bruce » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:37 am
Its great that you can and do ride regardless of the steps. More than 2,000 cyclists use it every day.AndrewCowley wrote:An expensive eyesore. Especially when the proposal as it stands only creates a ramp that goes nowhere. The money would be better spent on other cycling infrastructure. I use those steps 5 days a week (x2) commuting to and from work and don't really have a problem with them.
But your experience is not universal - there are plenty of people who can't or won't use the stairs - handcyclists, trikes, cargo bikes, kids in trailers & more.
I make no claim to expertise on aesthetics, but I look at the huge concrete wall that is the bridge on-ramp & say it isn't any uglier than that, or the Cahill expressway, or plenty of other roadworks in Sydney
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby Tomodachi » Mon Apr 30, 2018 6:41 pm
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby AndrewCowley » Tue May 01, 2018 12:33 am
Unicyclists?find_bruce wrote:But your experience is not universal - there are plenty of people who can't or won't use the stairs - handcyclists, trikes, cargo bikes, kids in trailers & more.
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby queequeg » Tue May 01, 2018 8:43 am
One year, doing the wheelchair marathon as a bicycle escort for the elite athletes, I watched with embarrassment as one of the top US wheelchair competitors took himself from his hotel in the city to the start in North Sydney, not realising there were 55 stairs at the other end. Luckily we were meeting at the bottom of the steps and saw his plight. Two people assisted with his racing chair, but he refused help for himself, instead choosing to walk down the stairs on his hands! All we could do was apologise for our government’s lack of care about it.AndrewCowley wrote:An expensive eyesore. Especially when the proposal as it stands only creates a ramp that goes nowhere. The money would be better spent on other cycling infrastructure. I use those steps 5 days a week (x2) commuting to and from work and don't really have a problem with them.Tomodachi wrote:What do you think about the new ramp they are supposed to build to replace the 55 steps at Milsons point? From the renders I've seen on RMS website it looks visually obtrusive, so I'm sort of in two minds about it.
While you may have no troubles, parents with trailers or young kids on bikes, cargo bikes, or those less capable, perhaps on an e-bike, can’t navigate 55 stairs and then weave through two narrow bollards. That includes elite athletes in carbon fibre racing chairs.
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby g-boaf » Tue May 01, 2018 9:03 am
What if it breaks down? Which will happen and it won't be serviced right away either. In Japan they'd keep these things maintained properly and fix them promptly if something goes wrong. Here we'd just ignore it for days.Tomodachi wrote:What if they replaced the proposed ramp with a largeish elevator. I remember when I was in Tokyo the Rainbow Bridge had a massive elevator to move people and bikes from the ground to the road deck.
A ramp may not be as elegant, but it won't have those issues.
Isn't it just typical...mikesbytes wrote:NSW Govt removed a major section of what would of eventually been the CBD east west connection that the council was building and then the NSW Govt cancelled the promised replacement
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby find_bruce » Tue May 01, 2018 11:39 am
Then there are the operating costs, routine servicing etc before considering the likelihood of breakdowns. Is there any data as to the operation of the elevator at Circular Quay on the pedestrian side?
The equivalent would be the elevators at the CBD end of the Pyrmont Bridge which are chronically unreliable
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby AndrewCowley » Tue May 01, 2018 12:54 pm
I think there is also a proposal to install an elevator on the pedestrian walkway side. I'd have no issue with this and there is your solution for disabled / wheelchair people.queequeg wrote: One year, doing the wheelchair marathon as a bicycle escort for the elite athletes, I watched with embarrassment as one of the top US wheelchair competitors took himself from his hotel in the city to the start in North Sydney, not realising there were 55 stairs at the other end.
I'm not sure I'd be happy with wheelchair people using the cycleway side anyway. My gut feel is that they should really be using the pedestrian walkway.
My issue with the cycleway ramp is that as currently proposed it goes nowhere and due to the invasive nature of it (the impact to the park will be huge), it will burn up a whole pile of community goodwill. There goes any chance then of doing anything useful down the track as far as connecting it to the Narrenburn cycleway. Connect it to Narrenburn from day 1 and the community (some of them at least) will see something that is more useful and be more supportive.
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby queequeg » Tue May 01, 2018 1:09 pm
He used the Cycleway because at the city end you can only access the pedestrian path by stairs. He was in a racing wheelchair. These don't just plod along at 5km/h, they are capable of very high speeds. That's why the wheelchairs finish well ahead of the marathon runners. I don't particularly mind people on wheeled transport using the cycleway. The pedestrian side is is for those people using their legs to get over the bridge. Since wheelchairs can't physically access the pedestrian side at all, you are never going to see them there.AndrewCowley wrote:I think there is also a proposal to install an elevator on the pedestrian walkway side. I'd have no issue with this and there is your solution for disabled / wheelchair people.queequeg wrote: One year, doing the wheelchair marathon as a bicycle escort for the elite athletes, I watched with embarrassment as one of the top US wheelchair competitors took himself from his hotel in the city to the start in North Sydney, not realising there were 55 stairs at the other end.
I'm not sure I'd be happy with wheelchair people using the cycleway side anyway. My gut feel is that they should really be using the pedestrian walkway.
My issue with the cycleway ramp is that as currently proposed it goes nowhere and due to the invasive nature of it (the impact to the park will be huge), it will burn up a whole pile of community goodwill. There goes any chance then of doing anything useful down the track as far as connecting it to the Narrenburn cycleway. Connect it to Narrenburn from day 1 and the community (some of them at least) will see something that is more useful and be more supportive.
As for the proposed ramp "going nowhere", I would have to disagree. It goes from the top of the stairs to the bottom of the stairs with a gentle gradient Getting an elevated path all the way to Naremburn is a pipedream at the moment.
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby tcdev » Tue May 01, 2018 1:44 pm
Good summary! I've only ridden that route twice myself, and to say that I found Kent St frustrating would be an understatement. I recall counting 13? lights between the bridge end of Kent St and Belmore Park, and all but two of those were red. When you add it all up it makes for a rather slow ride over such a short distance. Having said that, I'm grateful for the safety of a separated path, notwithstanding the pedestrian and courier van hazards.Tomodachi wrote:But in general I found Kent Street to be very stop/start. I would like to know what others think.
Guessing you'll continue south from Prince Alfred Park into my stomping grounds in a future video... it's mostly path from there to the airport and Tempe where you can branch off westwards on the Cooks River path to Parramatta or continue south to Sans Souci, then over the bridge to Wanda/Cronulla via the just-completed Woolooware section of the path and/or Kurnell.
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby mikesbytes » Tue May 01, 2018 9:54 pm
And I agree that it should be done all the way to Narrenburn
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby Tomodachi » Wed May 02, 2018 9:58 pm
Yeah the plan is to do Bourke Street, that's in production at the moment and is still a few weeks away from being published. I do plan to do all of them eventually. I generally have to ride it once and walk it once to shoot different perspectives so it does take a bit of time.tcdev wrote:Good summary! I've only ridden that route twice myself, and to say that I found Kent St frustrating would be an understatement. I recall counting 13? lights between the bridge end of Kent St and Belmore Park, and all but two of those were red. When you add it all up it makes for a rather slow ride over such a short distance. Having said that, I'm grateful for the safety of a separated path, notwithstanding the pedestrian and courier van hazards.Tomodachi wrote:But in general I found Kent Street to be very stop/start. I would like to know what others think.
Guessing you'll continue south from Prince Alfred Park into my stomping grounds in a future video... it's mostly path from there to the airport and Tempe where you can branch off westwards on the Cooks River path to Parramatta or continue south to Sans Souci, then over the bridge to Wanda/Cronulla via the just-completed Woolooware section of the path and/or Kurnell.
Seems like the ramp on the north side of the SHB is the preferred option, I'm sort of surprised, but yeah I guess the elevator could have reliability issues from time to time.
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby familyguy » Fri May 04, 2018 5:11 pm
Jim
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby Tomodachi » Sat May 05, 2018 12:17 pm
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby find_bruce » Sat May 05, 2018 4:00 pm
Distance: 53.9 km
Elevation: + 523 / - 519 m
Moving Time: 02:25:12
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby trailgumby » Sat May 05, 2018 8:07 pm
^^^This. I must say I'm very surprised the government has not been sued for failing to live up to its own disabled access laws...queequeg wrote:One year, doing the wheelchair marathon as a bicycle escort for the elite athletes, I watched with embarrassment as one of the top US wheelchair competitors took himself from his hotel in the city to the start in North Sydney, not realising there were 55 stairs at the other end. Luckily we were meeting at the bottom of the steps and saw his plight. Two people assisted with his racing chair, but he refused help for himself, instead choosing to walk down the stairs on his hands! All we could do was apologise for our government’s lack of care about it.
While you may have no troubles, parents with trailers or young kids on bikes, cargo bikes, or those less capable, perhaps on an e-bike, can’t navigate 55 stairs and then weave through two narrow bollards. That includes elite athletes in carbon fibre racing chairs.
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sat May 05, 2018 8:26 pm
But they DO!AndrewCowley wrote:Unicyclists?find_bruce wrote:But your experience is not universal - there are plenty of people who can't or won't use the stairs - handcyclists, trikes, cargo bikes, kids in trailers & more.
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby AndrewCowley » Sat May 05, 2018 11:54 pm
Was keen to see the route, but ...find_bruce wrote:It will be interesting to see how close Jim goes to this ride from 2016
Distance: 53.9 km
Elevation: + 523 / - 519 m
Moving Time: 02:25:12
"The trip you are trying to view is not public"
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Re: Sydney Cycleways, First Impressions
Postby find_bruce » Sun May 06, 2018 7:32 am
find_bruce wrote:It will be interesting to see how close Jim goes to this ride from 2016
Distance: 53.9 km
Elevation: + 523 / - 519 m
Moving Time: 02:25:12
Thanks - should be public nowAndrewCowley wrote:Was keen to see the route, but ...
"The trip you are trying to view is not public"
Just realised that was an early morning weekend ride so we went up the Pacific Highway from Nth Sydney to Lane Cove - Tour de bike paths shows the route including the bike path from Crowsnest
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