2X on high flange hubs?

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familyguy
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2X on high flange hubs?

Postby familyguy » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:58 pm

I've got a set of 27" wheels I ripped apart due to badly corroded spokes. The time has come to consider rebuilding them.

Shimano 80's HC-110 HF hubs: http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx? ... 0&AbsPos=2

Ukai 27 x 1 1/4 rims (dead ringers for the Araya 16A): http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx? ... 7&AbsPos=0

Is 2X (2X front, 2X NDS/3X DS) going to lead to weird angles on the spoke/flange interface for the 2X patterns? I know the high flange were more suited to 3X and even 4X. These ones were previously laced 4X, for a bomb-proof set on the tourer they came on.

Given the hubs, the front and NDS are all the same length for the same lacings. I've done a 2X/3X mix road wheel for low flange Campag hubs, turned out nice once I got my head around the hole offsets.

Jim

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P!N20
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Re: 2X on high flange hubs?

Postby P!N20 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:38 pm

familyguy wrote: I know the high flange were more suited to 3X and even 4X.


Aren’t low flange more suited to 4X? In that the angle of one spoke needs to clear the head of its neighbour?

So when re-lacing hubs you’re meant to copy the previous lacing pattern. I’m sure you know this, Jim. But if you’re willing to take the risk that your hubs might fail or your wheels keep going out of true, go for it!

I did a different spoke pattern on my rear hub - so far, so good.

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Thoglette
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Re: 2X on high flange hubs?

Postby Thoglette » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:57 pm

String is surprisingly useful for visualising this sort of stuff. I think Sheldon Brown had a variety of cheat sheets. But on ETRO 622 I expect you'd barely notice (I'm pretty sure my front high flange has 3x on ETRO 630)
Stop handing them the stick! - Dave Moulton
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ

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Duck!
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Re: 2X on high flange hubs?

Postby Duck! » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:06 pm

P!N20 wrote:
familyguy wrote: I know the high flange were more suited to 3X and even 4X.


Aren’t low flange more suited to 4X? In that the angle of one spoke needs to clear the head of its neighbour?

No. Low flanges place the holes closer together, so if you try too many crosses the spokes & neighbouring heads clash.

I'm assuming 36 spokes, fairly typical for that vintage. For the front you can build pretty much anything except radial lacing; there's no torsional load on the front, but the hub probably doesn't have enough material around the holes to support the direct pull of radial spokes.

I'd lean toward 3x for both sides of the rear, because with 36 spokes there's not a huge brace angle off the hub, so you can be more prone to wind-up with fewer crosses. That said, because the high flanges increase the gap between each spoke, it does increase the brace angle a bit, so you could get away with 2x on the off side.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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familyguy
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Re: 2X on high flange hubs?

Postby familyguy » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:58 pm

Yeah, I know of the "don't relace hubs in different patterns". I wouldn't do it for well used hubs with signs of spoke pulling or having done serious work in one pattern. Given these were barely tensioned on the rear and the rims barely show a brake mark, I don't reckon they've done much work as they were laced. I often wonder how people relace hubs they dont own from new if this is such an issue 8)

Will give the string idea a go, sounds neat.

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Duck!
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Re: 2X on high flange hubs?

Postby Duck! » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:20 pm

Changing patterns from what's previously been laced isn't really an issue; some patterns just don't work with certain hubs or number of spokes.
I had a thought, but it got run over as it crossed my mind.

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familyguy
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Re: 2X on high flange hubs?

Postby familyguy » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:22 pm

For those interested in the maths...

Angle between spoke and line perpendicular to radius from centre of hub to spoke hole:
2X results in 45.9626 degrees
3X results in 24.7211 degrees
4X results in 4.2024 degrees

Angle between spoke and perpendicular line through spoke hole at rim:
2X results in 175.9626 degrees
3X results in 174.7211 degrees
4X results in 174.2024 degrees

Oh, and yes, 36 hole hubs...

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