Lake Wendouree 2.5 hour Classic 22nd Feb

[raptordesigns]

I'm looking for recumbents interested in being part of a team for this.

http://www.ballaratcycleclassic.com.au/ ... hp?page=12

I'm trying to organise a team of at least 5 so that we have at least one fresh rider at all times.

We'd be drafting as a group of (max)4 I hope, so experience with this is a plus. Ability to maintain 30-35km/hr on the flat solo for an hour also very useful.

Discussion on the VICHPV Yahoo forum.

Otherwise email me at
raptordesigns@optusnet.com.au
if interested.

[bradwoodbr]

I would love to ride in your team but I live in WA WA land. I wish you well and hope you get a good team together.
I made an attempt at getting a Cyclo Sportif team together last year without success. So I hope you can get a good call out.

Being in a paceline with recumbents is absolutely awesome and huge fun.

[Gregory_carroll]

I reckon I could have a go at that!
I also reckon I could get to 35 for an hour or so.

[william]

I'm interested also but which ride in particular?

William.

[raptordesigns]

The particular ride is the Lake Wendouree classic, which is a 2.5 hour relay ride. A team can be any size but only 4 team riders on the course at a time. So far we have 5 signed up to team "Bent, not broken". A couple more would be great and would allow us to keep the speed up with regular rider changeovers.

When signing up for the ride, nominate "ben19" as the team code.

John R
(hoping his cough goes away so he can actually ride!)

[william]

OK...
Signed up now to get some practice in....

Looking forward to this.

William.

[raptordesigns]

OK...
Signed up now to get some practice in....

Looking forward to this.

William.

Great, that's six signed-up riders so far. If nothing else, the paceline should be a spectacle.

[Freddyflatfoot]

Just went out and did a quick two laps of the lake in a fairly stiff 25 kt (46kph) southerly. Managed 31.6 kph avg. with nothing to chase!
Don't think I was working that hard. Actually, if its windy, I think that will be a distinct advantage for us benters!
Dunno how you think we should manage the team John, but I was thinking that maybe we could work in maybe 3 or 4 lap relays? That should keep the team fairly fresh. Each lap should take between 11 and 12 mins. (or less!)
6 or more sounds good! That should enable us to keep up a fairly healthy clip, and a decent rest in between stints. To start off though, I suggest two riders do maybe 5 laps at the start, and from then on replace 2 riders each 3-4 laps?
BTW, welcome aboard William! And JohnR , many thanks for organising the team!

[raptordesigns]

Just went out and did a quick two laps of the lake in a fairly stiff 25 kt (46kph) southerly. Managed 31.6 kph avg. with nothing to chase!
Don't think I was working that hard. Actually, if its windy, I think that will be a distinct advantage for us benters!
Dunno how you think we should manage the team John, but I was thinking that maybe we could work in maybe 3 or 4 lap relays? That should keep the team fairly fresh. Each lap should take between 11 and 12 mins. (or less!)
6 or more sounds good! That should enable us to keep up a fairly healthy clip, and a decent rest in between stints. To start off though, I suggest two riders do maybe 5 laps at the start, and from then on replace 2 riders each 3-4 laps?
BTW, welcome aboard William! And JohnR , many thanks for organising the team!

How often we do changeovers will depend a bit on how many riders we eventually end up with and how fit we are.... I'll do some math later.

As far as wind advantage goes - a lot of that is negated by the pacelines. A relay race means you can sit on the front of the line and blow yourself out totally for a lap (with the rest sucking wheel) knowing that you can take a break to recover from the extreme effort. We're not paceline - skilled and will probably be floundering for a while trying to keep all the little ducks in a nice line - only myself, Steve and Eric have actually ridden together at speed before as far as I know - and who knows what the range of our rider strengths is?

The Team "Bent, Not Broken" .... So Far:

John R ("talon" homemade lowracer)
Eric B ("having a Ball?" lowracer)
Steve N ("Fabulous Flying Banana")
Greg C (Fujin-SL lowracer)
freddyflatfoot (SWB?)
william (Barchetta Corsa?)
**** your name here? ****


There will be an email from the organisers late this week (probably
Friday) with info on what we have to do on the day.

[william]

Hi TEAM...

I'm not sure of myself here against others or even riding in a paceline.
Normally I'm off down beach road and if I catch, or get caught up in a small group thats travelling about the same pace then I tag along. usually about the 32-34 K speed. On flat windless roads I can burst up to 55 K but no way could I hold that. I could probably hold high thirties or more in a group on and off draughting.

This will be my first actual race, recumbent or otherwise.

William.

[raptordesigns]

Hi TEAM...

I'm not sure of myself here against others or even riding in a paceline.
Normally I'm off down beach road and if I catch, or get caught up in a small group thats travelling about the same pace then I tag along. usually about the 32-34 K speed. On flat windless roads I can burst up to 55 K but no way could I hold that. I could probably hold high thirties or more in a group on and off draughting.

This will be my first actual race, recumbent or otherwise.

William.

William, your speed sounds fine to me, and pretty much what most of the others will be managing. Whether or not we ride as a pace group will depend on how well we are all matched in strength and how disciplined we are. It's very likely that there will be some mismatch and/or some reluctance to draft closely, especially in heavy traffic, so depending on the rider mix we may find ourselves spread out at times.

As for racing - well, I don't expect any great result. From what I can see. I don't think any of us would be considered particularly strong riders; I'm in it for the fun of participation and the novelty of being part of a recumbent team. I'm certain we'll be quickly lapped by the young guns on DF's honking along at 45km/hr.

I haven't heard of a recumbent team participating in an event like this before, and if nothing else, it'll make a good youtube video!

[Gregory_carroll]

Hi Folks

I've been in a few HPV races, but typically there's a team, but only one bike!! I've never had a go in a pace line. It looks like a few of us are near beach road- so if anyone fancies a evening ride out late this week, I'd be into it.

I reckon I could manage high thirties for most of the time, although how I'd go in a pace line I have no idea. I'm also not sure how beneficial it would be on an aero bike (guess we'll find out).

I concur, I'm not really fussed about winning (even if I was......I reckon disappointment would be the order of the day!!) although, its going to be quite a spectical us lot riding around amongst the roadies!!! Given I have have never raced, what sort of gear do we need to ride with - just bike and drink - or do we need a repair kit and such?

how exciting is it!?!

Greg

[Freddyflatfoot]

I've ridden pacelines with DF's, and usually find I'm always backing off when I'm in the pack. I've also had my DF buddies complain about the (lack of) draft they get off me! So how does a bent paceline work with little or no actual drafting?
For those that haven't ridden a paceline, its basically riding in single file, with maybe 1-2 ft of separation, and drafting off the rider in front, riding at a steady pace. The lead is taken over by the second rider and the lead rider drops to the back of the paceline. This continues at regular intervals. Thus each rider stays fresher, and each rider shares the responsibilty of leading the paceline and setting the pace. A group riding like this can usually maintain a higher speed than when riding solo.
I think this pattern will modified somewhat, considering that we will also be rotating riders through the team.
I personally think that we can do quite well, but I agree with JohnR, that the young bucks on TT bikes or similar, could probably maintain speeds in excess of 40 - 45 kph!
As for a equipment, well a puncture kit/spare tube would be prudent, and of course, a helmet! Probably a bidon or a hydration pack would be recommended.
I'm personally going to put an hydration pack in my tailbox for ease of access, rather than reaching for a bidon!
BTW John, who's doing the YouTube filming?
I hope the circuit is going to be closed, hate to be sharing the road with all those bikes and cars!

[raptordesigns]

I've ridden pacelines with DF's, and usually find I'm always backing off when I'm in the pack. I've also had my DF buddies complain about the (lack of) draft they get off me! So how does a bent paceline work with little or no actual drafting?

I'll be bringing my camera, hopefully get some shots from the sidelines when resting and if I can, I'll try for some shots while on the road.

Bent pacelines: I've had the opportunity to ride with John K (in Xevon lowracer) and Steve N (in the Banana) on my own lowracer and there is a usable draft when bent drafts bent. Not as much as when sitting behind a hammering DF, but it does help. And conversely while a DF doesn't get a great help from a lowracer in front, they do get a little.

I don't have a lot of experience with rolling turns myself because when I mix it with DF peletons, they generally prefer that I either lead the line or stay on the back as they tend to be uncomfortable with a lowracer in the middle of the bunch. But riding in the middle of a DF bunch is a lot of fun to try .... it's absolutely amazing how much pull you get!!!

As for gear, on the road, just water in bidon or hydration pack. I'll have a fairly comprehensive tool kit with me in the pits - spare tubes, puncture kit, chainbreaker, pump/compressor etc...

I'm pretty sure the circuit will be closed.

John R.

[bradwoodbr]

Hi John,
I agree with you. You are going to maximise your average speed with 'Roll ons' and close drafting. I hope my following ideas help your team.
I have a lot of experience in roll ons and pacelines and the roll on technique returns the highest average speed with the freshest riders.
My idea of roll on is their are two lines of riders. the leader is at the front of the outside line and eases over in front of the first rider in the second line. The following lead line rider takes the front until he/she is ahead by a bike length and then eases over into the other line. And so on.
By each rider completing short fast turns at the front, you will find your team's average speed much higher than any solo rider's average speed. It is a lot of fun getting this perfected. Good Luck to all of you. I wish I was there, but will look forward to any pics or vid you may share.

[raptordesigns]

My idea of roll on is their are two lines of riders. the leader is at the front of the outside line and eases over in front of the first rider in the second line. The following lead line rider takes the front until he/she is ahead by a bike length and then eases over into the other line. And so on.
By each rider completing short fast turns at the front, you will find your team's average speed much higher than any solo rider's average speed. It is a lot of fun getting this perfected.

I'm not sure this will work for us with only 4 riders allowed at a time. My guess is that a simple "roll off" of the front rider to the right and back to the rear will probably be the best we can manage - if indeed we can manage to maintain a paceline at all!

[Freddyflatfoot]

I'm not sure this will work for us with only 4 riders allowed at a time. My guess is that a simple "roll off" of the front rider to the right and back to the rear will probably be the best we can manage - if indeed we can manage to maintain a paceline at all!

I agree, with only 4 riders at a time, a single line paceline would be about the best we could manage. It could be very interesting trying to maintain a paceline, depending on the amount of 'traffic' on the circuit.
Maybe the best we can do is try and maintain a bunch, and look after each other.
Any idea on how we change riders?
Guess we'll find out those rules at the start!
Gonna head out for some laps of the circuit this morning...........................

[raptordesigns]

Here's a rough lap schedule for a 6, 5 and 7 man relays with 4 on course as best I can make it out. Just in case we drop a rider or get an extra by the day...

5 man is simple but hard work with 4-lap intervals and one lap rests. 7 makes for reasonably easy logistics, fresh riders and good rests.

[Freddyflatfoot]

Does this mean we'll have a 'pit crew' to monitor the laps and riders?
That would be cool!
I'm really looking foward to this event! Should be fun.
My ride around the circuit wasn't very good today, only avg. around 28 kph. Mind you, I was battling a S wind that gusting up to 50 kph!
The cross winds were a buffeting too, with my tailbox and rear disc.

[raptordesigns]

Does this mean we'll have a 'pit crew' to monitor the laps and riders?
That would be cool!
I'm really looking foward to this event! Should be fun.
My ride around the circuit wasn't very good today, only avg. around 28 kph. Mind you, I was battling a S wind that gusting up to 50 kph!
The cross winds were a buffeting too, with my tailbox and rear disc.

We will probably have at least 1 extra person available to monitor laps and wave us off and on. More info as it comes to hand.

It'd be nice to have a 7th rider too.

[william]

Just wondering what the expected amount of riders will be going around at the same time.
And... how do the riders change??? Is it stop-go, rolling change, batton change.. Hmmm!
I'm thinking of going there this week end, possibly Sunday just for a look and bit of practice, maybe. If anyone is interested in joining me let me know.
Still have to find it first though. Better check the map.
By the way... has there been a recumbent team involved in any type of race in Australia before? Might be history here..

William.

[Freddyflatfoot]

William,
I can ride Saturday if you wanna head up. Be good to troll around with someone else!
Shoot me an e-mail on rlevo@ncable.net.au, and we can work out a time. I'm on leave after Saturday, so may have some more training time up my sleeve!

[Freddyflatfoot]

William, just saw the reference to the map, just look for the big round 'paddock' in the middle of town!

[Freddyflatfoot]

William and myself are riding the lake circuit, starting at 1pm tomorrow.
Just in case anyone else is able to join us!

[raptordesigns]

William and myself are riding the lake circuit, starting at 1pm tomorrow.
Just in case anyone else is able to join us!

How did you go in the wind?