difference between brake and gear cable housings
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difference between brake and gear cable housings
Postby scottyj » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:26 pm
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Postby il padrone » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:46 am
Gear cables (for modern STi) are made of a large no. of longitudinal wires. At the cut end you'll see these multiple small wires' ends.
Yes, it really does matter! Old-school gears used the same coiled housing as for brakes. However indexing for STi demands greater cable-tension consistency, so the housing must be able to resist compression.
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Re: difference between brake and gear cable housings
Postby Dan » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:04 am
I have read the literature surrounding the risks of using compressionless for braking systems - questions as follows:
1. Have there been tech advances which now allow the use of compressionless housing for braking; and
2. Is there an application anywhere for 5mm gear cable outer? If not, it would indicate that this is purpose designed brake outer.
EDIT: further reading says there is indeed 5mm gear outer, which means I've likely been sent gear outer in place of brake outer.
Easy enough to zip up to the LBS and get brake outer, but that's not really the point.
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Re: difference between brake and gear cable housings
Postby il padrone » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:10 pm
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
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Re: difference between brake and gear cable housings
Postby Dan » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:15 pm
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Re: difference between brake and gear cable housings
Postby Jesmol » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:20 pm
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Re: difference between brake and gear cable housings
Postby Dan » Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:38 pm
EDIT: can't find the random external forum link that stated this. Sorta says something...
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Re: difference between brake and gear cable housings
Postby il padrone » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:01 pm
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
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Re: difference between brake and gear cable housings
Postby Dan » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:25 pm
I don't recall seeing an additional layer of braid over the small cables at the cut end, but to me honest I was too busy being annoyed at potentially having been sent the wrong thing to be paying attention to details like that
I'll have another look tonight, but safe to say I'll be collecting normal outer on the way home... I think its the wrong product. Agree with you IP that the brake cable should have the bowden cable, and what I was supplied most definitely did not have it. Further reading suggests the Goodridge gear cables are a nominal 5mm OD, which more than likely explains the mixup.
Link to c r c description here.
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Re: difference between brake and gear cable housings
Postby jules21 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:54 pm
the steel wiring is underneath the plastic outer. if you look at it from a longitudinal perspective, you should see the outer (as pictured above), the steel cabling (which is how you discern whether it's gear or brake cable), and then an inner plastic sheath (usually clear).Dan wrote:It appears the Goodridge cable outers are a braided construction, suitable for braking applications. Hmmm.
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Re: difference between brake and gear cable housings
Postby Dan » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:05 pm
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Re: difference between brake and gear cable housings
Postby Mulger bill » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:04 pm
Pretty sure I read one makers blurb saying they made incompressible brake outers because it "offered better feel".
A quick google hasn't helped as I've no idea of the makers name.
EDIT. Jagwire it seems.
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Re: difference between brake and gear cable housings
Postby biker jk » Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:01 pm
Yes Jagwire brake housing using compressionless gear style tubing. I just checked mine.Mulger bill wrote:Don't quote me on this because it's all old IIRC stuff...
Pretty sure I read one makers blurb saying they made incompressible brake outers because it "offered better feel".
A quick google hasn't helped as I've no idea of the makers name.
EDIT. Jagwire it seems.
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Re: difference between brake and gear cable housings
Postby eeksll » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:17 am
I also purchased goodridge brake cable outer a while ago, I got the set, not the "by the meter" stuff ... i.e. this one
They are extremely stiff and didn't work for the tight bends I needed so I still have the set cable set (cut obviously), just had a look, it is of what appears to be the stranded variety.
I just had a google ... you are not the only one to notice ...
Not 100% sure if I follow the conclusion they make here ... ie are the saying its "braided" not stranded so that makes it ok?
http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... p=15063179" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive ... 02164.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageb ... p?p=698463" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
... quite a few more too
so either its intentional and will be fine or maybe they made one bad batch and they are still floating around in stores? I'd think most likely the former, but its your neck not mine.
I only had mine on as brake cable outers for a very short period (as they where so stiff they messed with the balance on my v brakes) so I can not attest to longer term use. Initial thoughts where "not spongy what so ever". Maybe email goodridge or c r c (or both) and get it sorted.
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Re: difference between brake and gear cable housings
Postby Dan » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:26 am
I'll not be using it for brakes - the post above shows the typical Internet scenario where no one actually knows what's going on.
Endnote: I emailed c r c yesterday - they were extremely apologetic and are sending a replacement FOC.
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Re: difference between brake and gear cable housings
Postby il padrone » Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:55 pm
Disc brake cable runs may involve less bends than a conventional V-brake or dual-pivot brake cable, and may use less cable pressure.Retrogrouch wrote:We've come a full circle.
Back in the days when men were men and bikes only had 10 gears there wasn't any difference between brake and shift cable housing.
When index shifting came out, shift cable housing compression became an issue so a different housing had to be used for shifters. Since brake cable tensions are much greater, spiral wound cable housing was still necessary for brakes. Consequently you had to use the right housing for each purpose.
Then cable disc brakes came out. They don't work so good with ordinary spiral wound cable housing. It's possible today to obtain cable housing that works equally well with either shifters or brakes.
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Re: difference between brake and gear cable housings
Postby alex » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:16 am
i have used the goodridge housings before, the inside looks like any other housing and they feel the same as any other housing, the braiding on the outside seems to be purely cosmeticDan wrote:I also think I need to clarify that I know what a traditional version of each cable should look like - what I'm trying to ascertain is if Goodridge are using a longitudinally arranged (or a braided derivative thereof) construction as their brake cable outer. I suspect not.
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Re: difference between brake and gear cable housings
Postby takai » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:16 pm
They use the same construction for both the gear and brake outers, only the teflon liner ID changes.
Jagwire on the other hand use a braided liner over a compressionless segmented steel inner. Pain in the arse to cut.
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Re:
Postby human909 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:01 pm
This is a bit misleading. But that is more shimano's fault for talking about SIS "compressionless" housing. Brake housing actually resists compression far more than gear housing. Having stiff cable that resists compression is very desirable for brakes as the compression forces are high. Stiffer cables means stiffer brakes, there is a very noticeable performance difference between cheap brake housing and the better stuff.il padrone wrote:Yes, it really does matter! Old-school gears used the same coiled housing as for brakes. However indexing for STi demands greater cable-tension consistency, so the housing must be able to resist compression.
Gear housing's most desirable characteristic is to not change length when it is bent. Otherwise the simple act of turn the handle bars could change your gears!
Different needs different products.
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Re: difference between brake and gear cable housings
Postby il padrone » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:04 pm
Gear cables using the old spiral wire ?? Unlikely to get reliable shifting from that, unless they've made some design breakhrough.takai wrote:I use the Goodridge stuff as well, both brake and gear cable on the different bikes. Its a braided outer casing, on an inner spiral wound shell with a teflon liner.
They use the same construction for both the gear and brake outers, only the teflon liner ID changes.
Jagwire on the other hand use a braided liner over a compressionless segmented steel inner. Pain in the arse to cut.
Cutting the compressionless cable is easy, with the right tool - a hook-jawed cable cutter
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Re: Re:
Postby il padrone » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:09 pm
I have seen what happens to older compressionless cable housing when it fails under gear shifting loads. I would not want that to happen when I'm on the brakes. Never seen any brake housing fail.human909 wrote:This is a bit misleading. But that is more shimano's fault for talking about SIS "compressionless" housing. Brake housing actually resists compression far more than gear housing. Having stiff cable that resists compression is very desirable for brakes as the compression forces are high. Stiffer cables means stiffer brakes, there is a very noticeable performance difference between cheap brake housing and the better stuff.
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Re: Re:
Postby human909 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:39 pm
Yes I recently replaced a blowout of gear housing on my beater commuter bike. I was a little confused about my shifting problems until I noticed that the gear cable had begun taking a shortcut around the curve in the housing.il padrone wrote:I have seen what happens to older compressionless cable housing when it fails under gear shifting loads. I would not want that to happen when I'm on the brakes. Never seen any brake housing fail.
Still given that the housing was over 13 years old I could hardly complain!
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