running for dummies

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running for dummies

Postby JV911 » Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:21 am

hoping to draw on the collective wisdom of BNA to improve my running (i know, i know...blasphemy but this is a tri thread :))

background: recently took up running on the treadmill at the gym to improve my cardio (i find it easier to pace myself with a speedo in front of me) would prefer to be on the bike but alas time constraints dont allow.

have gone from barely being able to run 1km in 7 mins to achieving my goal of 5km in 30min and further improving the time down to 28m30s (AT) 10.5km/h. this has no doubt helped my cycling and vice vesa having become addicted to riding hills on the weekends

i dont have a particular goal in mind other than further improving my fitness, which raises my question of where to focus my efforts. should i:

- increase the time spent running at a given intensity/speed
- increase the intensity/speed at which i run for a set time
- increase the intensity/speed (moreso than in point 2) for a given distance thereby bringing my PB down

???

i'm leaning towards option 2 or 3 as i like to have time to do free weights at the gym too but was wondering what those with more experience suggest. IMO both have their merits i.e from a roadie perspective #2 could be compared to a crit race over a set time and #3 a road race over a given distance

thanks,

JV
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by BNA » Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:50 am

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Postby Strawburger » Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:50 am

Try interval training (pyramid training)

Do a set distance (say 500m) and increase the speed (time).

1.
500m at (your current cruise speed)
rest (or slow jog) for 30sec
repeat
rest (or slow jog) for 30sec

2.
500m at (current cruse speed + a little more)
rest (or slow jog) for 30sec
repeat
rest (or slow jog) for 1min

3.
250m and up the pace further - fast jog
rest (or slow jog) for 30sec
repeat
rest (or slow jog) for 1min

work your way back so 1-2-3-2-1

You will get far more benefit out of this than running at a constant speed for xx kms for xx time.
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Postby Strawburger » Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:53 am

oh, and increase the speed once your fitness improves, don't limit yourself to the same pace each week, plus you can throw in a sprint (2 times 100m with 1min rest or slow jog/walk) to the top of the pyramid once you see improvement.
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Postby JV911 » Wed Feb 18, 2009 12:14 pm

thanks! i hadnt thought of doing intervals

Strawburger wrote:oh, and increase the speed once your fitness improves, don't limit yourself to the same pace each week


what i've been doing recently is increasing the pace which again is easier to manage on the tready

10min (AT) 10km/h warmup
5min (AT) 10.5km/h
4min (AT) 11km/h
3min (AT) 11.5km/h
2min (AT) 12km/h
1min (AT) 12.5km/h
walk

of some combo of time and speed depending on how much time i have i.e last night i only had 15mins so i went harder sooner

i find that if i try and go straight from 10 to 12km/h i'm knackered sooner than if i had worked up to it
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Postby Ant. » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:25 pm

As far as training goes, you could do worse than actually racing. ie, racing is probably one of the best ways to train, so sign up for some running races. Nothing brings on the PB's like a real 10km race :)
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Postby brendancg » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:29 pm

Be careful, running on a treadmill doesn't always equate to the road if you decide to move on to the road. To be roughly equivalent to running on a flat piece of road, the treadmill needs to be on incline 2.

Get yourself a heart rate monitor and run to heart rate not speed. You will notice a marked improvement with both endurance and if you do the intervals as mentioned above recovery.
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Postby JV911 » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:30 pm

Ant. wrote:As far as training goes, you could do worse than actually racing


i'd like to do a bi...i.e a tri without the swimming (go on admit it, you'd like to do a bi too :wink: )

say 20km bike & 5km run

brendancg wrote:Be careful, running on a treadmill doesn't always equate to the road if you decide to move on to the road


yea i've heard that and try to vary the incline a bit up to 3% max
Last edited by JV911 on Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Strawburger » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:31 pm

JV911 wrote:i find that if i try and go straight from 10 to 12km/h i'm knackered sooner than if i had worked up to it


I'd throw some rests in there and have higher steps like the one above rather than the gradual increase.

For what you want to get out of it (improved cardio & fitness), don't look at total km's run at the end of the session, look more for intensity of workout and how well you are recovering at each of the rests. If it's too easy, make the rests smaller and the duration of run longer.
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Postby Strawburger » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:33 pm

brendancg wrote:Be careful, running on a treadmill doesn't always equate to the road if you decide to move on to the road. To be roughly equivalent to running on a flat piece of road, the treadmill needs to be on incline 2.


+1
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Postby ni78ck » Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:10 pm

i find running on a tread mill very boring, and also they are not too accurate in reguards to distance and speed.
running on flat ground will make you fitter, but once your legs get use to it they will not really get much stronger.
recently i have done some training outside of cycling and we run along the coast where we have many inclines (calf and hammies) and many declines (quads). i feel much stronger in the legs. i may not ride for a week, and when i do im always quicker than the last time. i find its really working for me.
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Postby JV911 » Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:45 pm

ni78ck wrote:i find running on a tread mill very boring, and also they are not too accurate in reguards to distance and speed


TV in the gym helps...esp when they have the the adult's channel :shock: (gym is in a hotel at the rocks)

yea speed/distance may not be accurate but at least its something to guage myself against
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Postby ni78ck » Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:12 pm

JV911 wrote:
ni78ck wrote:i find running on a tread mill very boring, and also they are not too accurate in reguards to distance and speed


TV in the gym helps...esp when they have the the adult's channel :shock: (gym is in a hotel at the rocks)

yea speed/distance may not be accurate but at least its something to guage myself against


congrates on your 1000 posts!
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Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:46 pm

JV911 wrote:
Ant. wrote:As far as training goes, you could do worse than actually racing


i'd like to do a bi...i.e a tri without the swimming (go on admit it, you'd like to do a bi too :wink: )

say 20km bike & 5km run

brendancg wrote:Be careful, running on a treadmill doesn't always equate to the road if you decide to move on to the road


yea i've heard that and try to vary the incline a bit up to 3% max


I triathlon without the swimming is a duathlon. My brother used to compete in Melbourne in duathlons because he is not a strong swimmer.

I couldn't find any duathlons in Perth though.
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Postby Hebden » Wed Feb 25, 2009 2:40 pm

Hi JV,

Not sure where you are in Sydney, but the Penrith Triathlon Club run Duathlons in the Winter at the Regatta center, once a month I think.
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Postby Mugshot » Wed Feb 25, 2009 6:55 pm

TRAILRUN!!!

Easily the most entertaining form of running. Besides when you roll an ankle or something :roll:
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Postby JV911 » Wed Feb 25, 2009 8:02 pm

Hebden wrote:Hi JV,

Not sure where you are in Sydney, but the Penrith Triathlon Club run Duathlons in the Winter at the Regatta center, once a month I think.


sweet...thanks for the heads up

penrith is a bit of a mission but sounds like fun
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Postby ni78ck » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:27 am

JV911 wrote:
Hebden wrote:Hi JV,

Not sure where you are in Sydney, but the Penrith Triathlon Club run Duathlons in the Winter at the Regatta center, once a month I think.


sweet...thanks for the heads up

penrith is a bit of a mission but sounds like fun


where can we find details?
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Postby JV911 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:53 am

ni78ck wrote:where can we find details?


a bit of info here

still need to clarify the distances and whether one needs a tri licence (given that i have a cycling aus licence)
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Postby JV911 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:13 am

2 distances available:

2.5km run, 10km ride, 2.5km run or
5km run, 20km ride, 2.5km run

In terms of licence, you need to be a member of the club (panthers tri club in this case). Or you can join Tri NSW and attend any race
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Postby lang » Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:18 pm

Hey JV, with my running I found this book called the Rough Guide to Running invaluable. Lots of tips on running technique and improving your running fitness. http://www.roughguides.com/website/shop ... nning.aspx

Regarding the three training options you listed, I reckon it depends on your running goals and what you enjoy.

+1 for using a HR monitor. So so useful when you are starting out in running. You run to HR, not speed. Then over time you'll notice your speed at a particular HR goes up, naturally.
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Postby Andrew69 » Wed Mar 18, 2009 7:29 pm

lang wrote:+1 for using a HR monitor. So so useful when you are starting out in running. You run to HR, not speed. Then over time you'll notice your speed at a particular HR goes up, naturally.

Yep.
Also check out Daniel's Running Formula. Very, very good book.

If you are serious about running faster, slow down!
Sounds stupid I know, but its true. Spend a couple of months running at 75% of your max HR, build a good base, and then worry about speed.
You will be surprised just how fast you get by actually running slow...
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Re: intervals

Postby Thoglette » Sun Apr 05, 2009 1:44 pm

Strawburger wrote:Try interval training (pyramid training)


Add some hills.
Learning to adjust your stride/cadence both up and down to control your heartrate is multo importanto.

Plus, going down hill will get your legs used to the longer stride you will need to increase your flat-land speed.

Finally, don't forget to spend some time on non-hard surfaces (grass, sand, gravel).

Running just on the road uses only a select group of muscules/tendons and leaves you exposed to injury from the first stumble or cracked pavement. Just be aware that your cardio fitness will be much better than your ankle/knee fitness, so start with short, gentle bits in the middle of your runs (particularly sand and gravel, which can be very tough on untrained joints)
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Re: running for dummies

Postby bouncer1979 » Sun Apr 05, 2009 8:27 pm

Get a heart rate monitor and run to your heart rate not distance until you build up a good solid foundation. I found this was the best way for me to ease into it and as I got better then started into intervals, farlek etc etc.
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Re: running for dummies

Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:15 pm

I suck at running. I want to learn to run to do some tri's next year, but struggle to run 1km. I manged 700 metres tonight before I conked out :roll: . Will try for the big 1km on Thursday :oops:
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Re: running for dummies

Postby Thoglette » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:35 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:I suck at running. I want to learn to run to do some tri's next year, but struggle to run 1km. I manged 700 metres tonight before I conked out :roll: . Will try for the big 1km on Thursday :oops:


It sounds stupid but: run slowly. Short, quick steps (just like spinning)

And don't run far at first - your cardio fitness is probably far better than the state of your knee/ankle ligaments and muscles.
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