Endurance Training

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Endurance Training

Postby colafreak » Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:54 am

In acknowledgement of Sogood's request, here it is.

I wrote:i reckon my commute is better training than my normal training


Or something like that.

Thought process being that I push myself much harder on my commute, and due to the stop-start nature, it's like a half hour of HARD intervals, which in turn would increase my lactate threshold and therefore endurance.

Thoughts?
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by BNA » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:04 pm

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Postby colafreak » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:04 pm

I'm thinking this'll come down to the benefit of intervals vs fartlek?
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Postby mikesbytes » Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:20 pm

I treat my commuting as informal interval training
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Postby sogood » Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:38 pm

As discussed in the earlier thread, you need to give an objective of your training and what your so called "training rides" were like.

If the commute is doing more for you, then maybe you need to restructure your training rides for greater intensity/volume or whatever objective you had in mind.
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Postby colafreak » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:30 pm

By that reasoning, I should start reducing the length of my training rides. After half an hour of commuting, I'm totally stuffed, unable to continue if u paid me.
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Postby sogood » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:54 pm

colafreak wrote:By that reasoning, I should start reducing the length of my training rides. After half an hour of commuting, I'm totally stuffed, unable to continue if u paid me.

Exhausting yourself within half an hour may not be the best training plan. After all, volume matters.

But again, it comes back down to what you want to achieve and what are your present weaknesses. And if endurance is what you want, then you will need those long 60-100km rides.

Go back to basics first!
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Postby toolonglegs » Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:15 pm

colafreak wrote:By that reasoning, I should start reducing the length of my training rides. After half an hour of commuting, I'm totally stuffed, unable to continue if u paid me.


If a 30 minute ride is all you can handle no matter how hard then you do need to rethink your training...probably a big part of it is that you are not warming up before going so hard.
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Postby sogood » Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:44 pm

toolonglegs wrote:If a 30 minute ride is all you can handle no matter how hard then you do need to rethink your training...probably a big part of it is that you are not warming up before going so hard.

Also suggests that there's a serious lack in endurance. :roll:
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Postby toolonglegs » Tue Feb 24, 2009 7:04 pm

Super hard commuting is like X country MTB racing...just cleaner and with moving obstacles :D .
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Postby colafreak » Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:05 pm

toolonglegs wrote:
colafreak wrote:By that reasoning, I should start reducing the length of my training rides. After half an hour of commuting, I'm totally stuffed, unable to continue if u paid me.


If a 30 minute ride is all you can handle no matter how hard then you do need to rethink your training...probably a big part of it is that you are not warming up before going so hard.


Hehe, please re-read. What I'm saying is, I am thinking that half an hour of seriously hard intervals would be doing more for my lactate threshold than for example, a 2 hour ride at just below lactate threshold (which is where you sit for "endurance" riding)
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Postby sogood » Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:10 pm

colafreak wrote:Hehe, please re-read. What I'm saying is, I am thinking that half an hour of seriously hard intervals would be doing more for my lactate threshold than for example, a 2 hour ride at just below lactate threshold (which is where you sit for "endurance" riding)

If you want to train your threshold and VO2max, then short interval is obviously the go. But if you want to train your endurance, then those 30mins of short intervals won't do much for you.

So again it comes back to your objective. If you can't define it, then you are 'lost in training'.
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Postby colafreak » Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:26 pm

Can't train vo2 max, it's your biological limit.

All you can change is a bit of your efficiency of turning oxygen into forward movement and your threshold.

If you increase your threshold, then the % of your vo2 max that you can use sustainably increases, therefore increasing endurance.

"endurance" is just riding for a long time at a sustainable pace.

I'm not lost.
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Postby sogood » Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:40 pm

colafreak wrote:Can't train vo2 max, it's your biological limit...

I'm not lost.

You are lost. 8)
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Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:01 am

colafreak wrote:Can't train vo2 max, it's your biological limit.

You most definitely can train your VO2 Max.
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Postby JV911 » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:19 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:You most definitely can train your VO2 Max.


should i use power cranks? :P
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Postby colafreak » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:37 am

My understanding is that all you could do is perhaps increase the efficiency of your muscles in utilizing oxygen into useful power and maybe increase your lung size/capacity a bit.

I would have thought that would make much of a difference...

Care to help me out rather than just say I'm wrong? (which at 2 to 1, it seems I am)
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Postby sogood » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:55 am

Start with a Google/forum search on VO2max. The forumites should not need to write textbooks in threads. And without giving people here a clear description of your "training" and objectives, it's hard for anyone to chip in and respond in any meaningful way.
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Postby colafreak » Thu Feb 26, 2009 11:58 am

You're the one who asked for a separate thread.
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Postby sogood » Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:22 pm

colafreak wrote:You're the one who asked for a separate thread.

Because you were going OT in the original thread. Further, the reason for starting a new thread in the appropriate section is to allow others with the appropriate expertise to respond to your question. So it's your prerogative to re-state your situation and start anew or somehow reference the original thread.

I was just trying to help but the onus is still with you.
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Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:07 pm

Here's a very basic start:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VO2_max

But any good physiology textbook will provide ample evidence that VO2 Max is trainable. How much is highly variable between individuals.
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Re: Endurance Training

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:11 pm

colafreak wrote:Thoughts?

Train hard and smart and you'll improve.

I have no idea whether you are.
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Postby colafreak » Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:59 pm

Thank you for the wikipedia link, obviously that was the first place I looked and it doesn't provide much info at all. brianmac does and I find his articles to be pretty thorough.

Because you were going OT in the original thread. Further, the reason for starting a new thread in the appropriate section is to allow others with the appropriate expertise to respond to your question. So it's your prerogative to re-state your situation and start anew or somehow reference the original thread.

I was just trying to help but the onus is still with you.


Even if not stated in the OP, I've more than explained what I'm on about throughout this thread (i.e. that I feel like I'm getting more benefit (read: lactate threshold training) in my 30 minutes sprint to work than my longer endurance rides). And you well know that considering it was you i discussed it with in the first place, so I find the quote "the onus is still with you" to be a bit redundant.

If you want to comment on whether more benefit comes from training vo2 max rather than threshold or whether training one will train the other or ANYTHING at all, feel free. Just don't tell me I have no idea, then tell me you are "just trying to help"
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Re: Endurance Training

Postby colafreak » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:01 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
colafreak wrote:Thoughts?

Train hard and smart and you'll improve.

I have no idea whether you are.


Of course, and I wouldn't expect you to know unless you actually trained with me, but I am interested in what you think potential benefits of training vo2 versus threshold are (or vice versa). Exactly what would be the difference in training style?
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Postby sogood » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:08 pm

Clearly there's no point in arguing but ask again what was the "training" you were doing? One that you used to compare the benefits derived from your hard 30mins commute?

People's definition of "endurance ride" varies greatly and even if it was a solid endurance ride, how do you know those rides weren't providing the base for your improvements with those subsequent 30mins hard commutes?

Per usual forum routine, rubbish in, rubbish out, and you are in charge of the feed.
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Postby colafreak » Thu Feb 26, 2009 2:13 pm

Anywhere from 40 to 70 km straight riding (no stops) at a sustainable pace for the period. I.e. if I push any harder, I won't be able to sustain the pace for the duration of the ride.
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