Forking confusing forks...
- familyguy
- Posts: 8392
- Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:30 pm
- Location: Willoughby, NSW
Forking confusing forks...
Postby familyguy » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:03 pm
I’ve just started looking at MTB’s to replace my flat bar roadbike (which I rarely use due to having two other roadies…I don’t mean to brag, its just the kind of lifestyle I lead). I would be using it for commuting, so a lockout would be a plus, and some limited trail riding (eg: Manly Dam, Red Hill), so its gotta be capable. Hardtail XC bikes are the go from what I’ve read of other ‘help me buy a bike’ threads (in which the spec levels and general model opinions are discussed a bit).
Things such as drivetrain levels and groups are fairly easily understood, as like most road components they follow standard lines. There only seems to be SRAM or Shimano as players in the MTB drivetrain industry. I’ve seen other things such as cranks from FSA among others, but the only shifters/derailleurs/cassette makers seem to SRAM and Shimano. Is this the case?
The most confusing aspect of scouting MTB’s (particularly in this early snooping stage) is FORKS!
So far I’ve managed to deduce the major players as being Fox, Marzocchi, Manitou, RST, RockShox, and SR Suntour. Are there others?
From what I’ve read RST are to be avoided at all costs for ANY off road work. Rockshox Dart are worth steering clear of, but the Tora and above are quality. SR Suntour I cant find a website nor many reviews worth considering. Fox, Manitou and Marzocchi all appear to be higher end units, and priced to match.
Is there a list (subject to personal opinion) of XC forks?
Getting a capable fork would influence the budget, as its probably an easily overlooked part of a MTB purchase.
Jim
- Kalgrm
- Super Mod
- Posts: 9653
- Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 5:21 pm
- Location: Success, WA
- Contact:
Postby Kalgrm » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:19 pm
Welcome to the world of dirty thoughts.
You're pretty much right about the drive train: Shimano and SRAM are the only serious players in the field. Top is XTR and X.0 (Shim. and SRAM respectively), next is XT and X.9, then LX and X.7. Shimano have Deore below that level and some useless crap below that. For all practical purposes, XT and X.9 are as high as anybody except serious racers need.
Forks: in the area you're looking at, which is hardtail XC bikes, the only serious players are Fox and RockShox (the latter owned by SRAM). You can forget the others for XC work.
RockShox offer the best bang for your dollar at the lower end (Tora Air is the lowest you should consider: heavy but fully functional) and aren't too bad throughout their range above that. I want Reba Team as my next shocks. Fox have some innovative technology at higher ends too.
You haven't mentioned brakes yet, but I guess that will be the subject of a new thread ...
Cheers,
Graeme
---------------------
Music was better when ugly people were allowed to make it ....
- familyguy
- Posts: 8392
- Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:30 pm
- Location: Willoughby, NSW
Postby familyguy » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:34 pm
Air or Coil?
Fire away.
I hadnt even thought of stopping. I'm sure we can incorporate brakes, maybe I'll change the thread title once the forks are dustedKalgrm wrote:You haven't mentioned brakes yet, but I guess that will be the subject of a new thread ...
Jim
- Kalgrm
- Super Mod
- Posts: 9653
- Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 5:21 pm
- Location: Success, WA
- Contact:
Postby Kalgrm » Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:51 pm
That's the spirit!I hadnt even thought of stopping.
Air is both lighter and more adjustable. Coil springs (for setting the sag height) can be exchanged for ones that suit your weight, but air forks are adjustable for all (normal) weights.
Coil spring forks have their place in the downhill discipline because they are stronger (taking bigger hits on jumps) and weight is no problem there. Coil spring forks are often cheaper too, but that should not be a consideration here.
Cheers,
Graeme
---------------------
Music was better when ugly people were allowed to make it ....
- familyguy
- Posts: 8392
- Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:30 pm
- Location: Willoughby, NSW
Postby familyguy » Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:13 pm
Jim
- Kalgrm
- Super Mod
- Posts: 9653
- Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 5:21 pm
- Location: Success, WA
- Contact:
Postby Kalgrm » Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:20 pm
Yeah, you're going to have to spend more than $1200 to get a MTB with halfway decent forks these days. However, I can tell you that it won't last 5 years - you'll be upgrading within two* .... MTB riding is more fun than you think!familyguy wrote:Thanks for the info Graeme. Trying to steer clear of coil forks if I possibly can. Loads of things around with RockShox Dart or SR forks, but this is a five-plus year bike, not a tester for 6 months to see if I like it. I already kinda figure that I enjoy riding bikes
Jim
Cheers,
Graeme
* don't let the familygal read that.
---------------------
Music was better when ugly people were allowed to make it ....
- trailgumby
- Posts: 15469
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:30 pm
- Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney
- Contact:
Postby trailgumby » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:09 pm
Unfortunately I can tell you little about the better forks in either brand from personal experience, because both of my bikes are ... drumroll please ... Lefties!
When you're ready to try a lap of Manly Dam, feel free to drop me a PM. We live very close by the trail and my son and I would welcome the excuse to go for a ride. There's no need to worry about holding us up - we just cruise, so there's ample opportunity to re-do or work sections sections out if you want, and there'll be no pressure to ride sections when you aren't comfortable.
Just be careful - the Surgeon-General warns that Mountain Biking is addictive.
- familyguy
- Posts: 8392
- Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:30 pm
- Location: Willoughby, NSW
Postby familyguy » Mon Mar 02, 2009 2:48 pm
However, I can tell you that it won't last 5 years - you'll be upgrading within two[/quote]Kalgrm wrote:
Yes, well, that mirrors the road bike. Curse the fact that taking the fork off and re-installing it fixed the creaks that I thought were the frame giving out...
Utilitarian is good. I'm sure the whole pedal platform/brain/lockout thing will increase the more you look into things. As mentioned, I'd be doing some road riding too, so a lockout fork is figuring highly. Gotta start someplace though. I watched a guy on a Scott Jekyll ride past me on sunday with barely a hint of bob. Then I watched a guy on an indentical bike ride past once I'd stopped, bobbing like an absolute cork. Setup, setup, setup.trailgumby wrote:Air forks are good. Rockshox are regarded as being simpler, more utilitarian, but with less finesse than Fox. The consensus these days among magazine reviewers is that lockouts are less useful for eliminating pedal bob than platform damping unless you are going to spend significant time on the road.
I may do just that once I get my behind into/onto gear.trailgumby wrote:When you're ready to try a lap of Manly Dam, feel free to drop me a PM. We live very close by the trail and my son and I would welcome the excuse to go for a ride.
Jim
- Bnej
- Posts: 2880
- Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:43 pm
- Location: Katoomba, NSW
Postby Bnej » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:20 pm
Dart -> Tora -> Recon -> Reba -> SID
They also do variations within the range - coil, solo air, dual air; motion control, mission control dampers... The SID is super light XC, the Reba's high end general purpose.
Fox do one fork of each kind, with three damping systems possible.
For XC, you will get an F-series. These have a number for travel, then the damper.
So: F100RL is 100mm, Rebound + Lockout. R=Adjustable Rebound, L=Lockout, C=Compression (gets complicated, but you can tune out bob and still have it react to bumps)
Manitou do the Minute and the R7 forks for XC. Not common at the moment but they've been bought by Hayes and will probably be making a comeback.
Then you can have through axle or quick release on your front wheel. If you get the choice, get a through axle. It's safer, stronger, stiffer, easier and better. Lower end forks will be QR only.
Get at least a Tora or Recon and you won't go far wrong.
- familyguy
- Posts: 8392
- Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:30 pm
- Location: Willoughby, NSW
Postby familyguy » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:03 pm
Weeeelllll. A visit to the finance spreadsheet revealed a significant shortcoming in budgetary requirements. Therefore a second hand model was sought out. Figuring I'd be looking at middle of the range models for what I scrounged up, I went looking. Tried a couple of second hand bikes at stores, then jumped onto ebay for a squiz.
Then I ended up with one of these. I should have it by sunday with luck.
Please dont hit me...
Naturally, I look forward to being berated for not getting hydro brakes, X.7/DEore XT or above components, air forks, etc, etc.
Jim
- Kalgrm
- Super Mod
- Posts: 9653
- Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 5:21 pm
- Location: Success, WA
- Contact:
Postby Kalgrm » Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:07 am
Well, not rationally, anyway ...
Congrats on the new bike, but as usual, it's not real without the pics to prove it!
Cheers,
Graeme
---------------------
Music was better when ugly people were allowed to make it ....
- familyguy
- Posts: 8392
- Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:30 pm
- Location: Willoughby, NSW
Postby familyguy » Fri Mar 13, 2009 8:32 pm
Nice surprise, Tektro Auriga Comp hydro brakes instead of the Hayes mechanical rotors listed on the website
Pics to prove it happened:
Gave it a clean earlier, before trying to set up the front fork for sag with the preload adjustment. Getting there... Back hub is noisy, but I was taking it to the LBS for a service anyway.
Jim
-
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:11 pm
- Location: perth
Re:
Postby Z1 » Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:09 pm
Kalgrm wrote:G'day Jim,
Welcome to the world of dirty thoughts.
You're pretty much right about the drive train: Shimano and SRAM are the only serious players in the field. Top is XTR and X.0 (Shim. and SRAM respectively), next is XT and X.9, then LX and X.7. Shimano have Deore below that level and some useless crap below that. For all practical purposes, XT and X.9 are as high as anybody except serious racers need.
one little point " then LX and X.7. Shimano " the LX line has been removed from MTB and moved to trekking/touring duties and replaced with SLX which IMO is excellent stuff.
looks cool is tuff and a fair bit cheaper than XT with not alot of quality lost especially in the front end(shifters and cranks) which i actually prefer opposed to XT. haven't had alot to do with the SLX discs but from the riding i have done they feel wicked stronger than XT maybe a touch less modulation.
as far as forks go, definately go air sprung if you are serious about riding and want to commute. if you want more reliability and less servicing issues coils are tough and significantly cheaper and heavier. lock out is a must on new forks IMO.
congrates on the buy, be weary of the tektro auringa's i have had a couple of sets of low end hydro's and while they work they can be a real biatch when they want to.
- familyguy
- Posts: 8392
- Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2008 2:30 pm
- Location: Willoughby, NSW
Re: Re:
Postby familyguy » Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:41 pm
Yeah, I picked that up when LX wasnt listed on the Shimano website.Z1 wrote:one little point " then LX and X.7. Shimano " the LX line has been removed from MTB and moved to trekking/touring duties and replaced with SLX which IMO is excellent stuff.
Please explain? The brakes are fresh and feel solid currently with b*gger all pad wear, so I'm not touching them until I absolutely have to.Z1 wrote:congrates on the buy, be weary of the tektro auringa's i have had a couple of sets of low end hydro's and while they work they can be a real biatch when they want to.
Jim
-
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Sun Nov 30, 2008 1:11 pm
- Location: perth
Re: Re:
Postby Z1 » Mon Mar 30, 2009 11:13 pm
Please explain? The brakes are fresh and feel solid currently with b*gger all pad wear, so I'm not touching them until I absolutely have to.
Jim[/quote]
they can have alot of issue not will have can have. keep an eye on them coz in my experience once they start to play up they get on a roll. if you keep them serviced and keep an eye and ear out you may be able to avoid to many issues.
make sure your braking technique is good as the biggest problem i've found is they get real hot compared to higher end models
- General Australian Cycling Topics
- Info / announcements
- Buying a bike / parts
- General Cycling Discussion
- The Bike Shed
- Cycling Health
- Cycling Safety and Advocacy
- Women's Cycling
- Bike & Gear Reviews
- Cycling Trade
- Stolen Bikes
- Bicycle FAQs
- The Market Place
- Member to Member Bike and Gear Sales
- Want to Buy, Group Buy, Swap
- My Bikes or Gear Elsewhere
- Serious Biking
- Audax / Randonneuring
- Retro biking
- Commuting
- MTB
- Recumbents
- Fixed Gear/ Single Speed
- Track
- Electric Bicycles
- Cyclocross and Gravel Grinding
- Dragsters / Lowriders / Cruisers
- Children's Bikes
- Cargo Bikes and Utility Cycling
- Road Racing
- Road Biking
- Training
- Time Trial
- Triathlon
- International and National Tours and Events
- Cycle Touring
- Touring Australia
- Touring Overseas
- Touring Bikes and Equipment
- Australia
- Western Australia
- New South Wales
- Queensland
- South Australia
- Victoria
- ACT
- Tasmania
- Northern Territory
- Country & Regional
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users
- All times are UTC+10:00
- Top
- Delete cookies
About the Australian Cycling Forums
The Australian Cycling Forums is a welcoming community where you can ask questions and talk about the type of bikes and cycling topics you like.
Bicycles Network Australia
Forum Information
Connect with BNA
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.