Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Workshop tales, trials and disasters.
Maintenance tips, techniques and myths.
Technical discussion, description and outright lies

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby CoffsGal » Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:39 pm

toolonglegs wrote:this is the link to the tubeless version...320g.
Emma your link is to the tubed version.
http://www.hutchinsontires.com/us/catal ... rs=4&pid=8

Yes, I agree...
Tubeless version

I followed the link on this page which apparently leads to the wrong page, the tubed variety...

It makes sense that the longer lasting tyre would be heavier...and is only shown as available in the 25mm version...
User avatar
CoffsGal
 
Posts: 865
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:35 pm
Location: Mid North Coast NSW

by BNA » Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:15 pm

BNA
 

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby waynohh » Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:15 pm

I would have gone with the intensive, but couldn't find it anywhere. Not fussed if the fusion only lasts 2000km or whatever; tires are consumables after all and would want to replace them before the latex breaks down the compound too much.
waynohh
 
Posts: 1041
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:05 am

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby CoffsGal » Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:48 pm

waynohh wrote:I would have gone with the intensive, but couldn't find it anywhere. Not fussed if the fusion only lasts 2000km or whatever; tires are consumables after all and would want to replace them before the latex breaks down the compound too much.


Yea, the Intensive does seem to be a little hard to find at the moment...hopefully we will get good mileage from the Fusion 2's.

I wasn't aware that the sealant is likely to break down the rubber in the tyre...do you have any links or info on this?

So with you, herzog, TLL and me, that will be 4 of us on road tubless...maybe we will start a movement...

Emma
User avatar
CoffsGal
 
Posts: 865
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:35 pm
Location: Mid North Coast NSW

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby drubie » Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:21 pm

CoffsGal wrote:
So with you, herzog, TLL and me, that will be 4 of us on road tubless...maybe we will start a movement...

Emma


With the dollar north of 85US cents again and Stans website roadie kit discounted, maybe me too in a couple of weeks. Still thinking about which bike I want to do (I reckon the commuter bike first if the self fixing flat thing works out).

Maybe.
So we get the leaders we deserve and we elect, we get the companies and the products that we ask for, right? And we have to ask for different things. – Paul Gilding
but really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.
User avatar
drubie
 
Posts: 4609
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:12 am
Location: New England

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby waynohh » Fri Jun 05, 2009 11:19 am

CoffsGal wrote:I wasn't aware that the sealant is likely to break down the rubber in the tyre...do you have any links or info on this?
Emma


Not really, it's just common knowledge or maybe a mtb land wives tale. Just like C02 breaks down sealant, and rubber can go off by itself, sealant can break down rubber. Unless you store your tires for 2 years with sealant inside, your tires will wear out long before you need to worry about it.

Hutchinson say to only use their own sealant because it's possible that other types can potentially effect the tire. Sod that. I'd use liquid latex if the largest stans bottle wasn't so easy to order from wiggle.

http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86107

The only difference between road and mtb tubeless I can see is the square bead on the road tires. It follows that most of the knowledge from mtb tubeless applies to road also.
waynohh
 
Posts: 1041
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:05 am

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby herzog » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:15 pm

waynohh wrote:
CoffsGal wrote:I wasn't aware that the sealant is likely to break down the rubber in the tyre...do you have any links or info on this?
Emma


Not really, it's just common knowledge or maybe a mtb land wives tale. Just like C02 breaks down sealant, and rubber can go off by itself, sealant can break down rubber.


But the sealant *is* rubber...
User avatar
herzog
 
Posts: 1428
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:50 pm

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:44 pm

herzog wrote:
waynohh wrote:
CoffsGal wrote:I wasn't aware that the sealant is likely to break down the rubber in the tyre...do you have any links or info on this?
Emma


Not really, it's just common knowledge or maybe a mtb land wives tale. Just like C02 breaks down sealant, and rubber can go off by itself, sealant can break down rubber.


But the sealant *is* rubber...


But the liquid it is suspended in isn't.
I had my mtb wheels sitting for about a year...haven't had a frame.Took them off to check fluid hadn't dried out...they were fine.I wouldn't worry too much.

After my front wheel blow out the other day I thought I would just run a tube in the tubeless tyre...so I fitted a proper rim tape and then fitted up the tyre...those tyres run tight clearances and are VERY tight to put on in some instances...carbon beads dont stretch much :roll: .Problem was once it was on I realised the wheel was trashed...anyone want a set of 'used' DuraAce wheels :lol: .Had a bit of fun getting the tyre back off...lucky I didn't have to do that one the side of the road.
Then I realised I still have 3 Kysrium front wheels hanging off the wall :roll: ...much easier to run tubeless!.Must admit that the front tyre blow outs always make me nervous for a while...which was shame as I had a 20km long descent yesterday and didn't go much over 70.
Image
User avatar
toolonglegs
 
Posts: 14029
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby MountGower » Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:02 pm

drubie wrote:
With the dollar north of 85US cents again and Stans website roadie kit discounted, maybe me too in a couple of weeks. Still thinking about which bike I want to do (I reckon the commuter bike first if the self fixing flat thing works out).
Have you considered Vittoria Randonneurs for the commuter. The speed gains are not as neccessary on a commuter as they are on your pride and joy weekend ride and the Randonneurs are as tough as teeth and cheap. That way you can have puncture proof trips to work and go tubeless on the weekender right away. Just my own thoughts. Not expecting you to agree. Good luck either way.
MountGower
 

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby bowie » Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:10 pm

I'm a little lost as to why rolling resistance is reduces without a tube?

I would have thought resistance would be a measure of friction and weight, and with psi higher with a tube? and with them being lighter. . . .

sincerely confused..

daniel :P
b is for bicycle :D
User avatar
bowie
 
Posts: 1722
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:55 pm
Location: Sir! Albert Park.

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby herzog » Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:30 pm

bowie wrote:I'm a little lost as to why rolling resistance is reduces without a tube?


The tube folds and deforms inside the tyre. A tubeless tyre is more compliant with the road surface.
User avatar
herzog
 
Posts: 1428
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 8:50 pm

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby bowie » Sat Jun 06, 2009 6:48 pm

really? :shock: I would not have thought that tiny amount of movement would have been such a big deal.
b is for bicycle :D
User avatar
bowie
 
Posts: 1722
Joined: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:55 pm
Location: Sir! Albert Park.

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby drubie » Mon Jun 08, 2009 4:59 pm

MountGower wrote:drubie wrote:
(I reckon the commuter bike first if the self fixing flat thing works out).
Have you considered Vittoria Randonneurs for the commuter.


It's a good suggestion, but clearance might be an issue on the frame as it's pretty tight already with 23mm tyres. They are cheap though...
So we get the leaders we deserve and we elect, we get the companies and the products that we ask for, right? And we have to ask for different things. – Paul Gilding
but really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.
User avatar
drubie
 
Posts: 4609
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:12 am
Location: New England

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby twizzle » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:23 pm

I've just ordered most of the bits from Wiggle, but no rim tape was available. But I also don't want to pay $36 Au (as CoffsGal did) for a roll of tape that costs US $5 from the no-tubes web site.

Is there a cheap source in Australia for the tape?
I ride, therefore I am.
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
User avatar
twizzle
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:45 am
Location: Taking a break.

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby waynohh » Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:54 pm

twizzle wrote:I've just ordered most of the bits from Wiggle, but no rim tape was available. But I also don't want to pay $36 Au (as CoffsGal did) for a roll of tape that costs US $5 from the no-tubes web site.

Is there a cheap source in Australia for the tape?


Bummer, should have bundled it with your Wiggle order and they'd send it out separately when it came in. Ask around your mates maybe...
waynohh
 
Posts: 1041
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:05 am

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby twizzle » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:23 pm

waynohh wrote:
twizzle wrote:I've just ordered most of the bits from Wiggle, but no rim tape was available. But I also don't want to pay $36 Au (as CoffsGal did) for a roll of tape that costs US $5 from the no-tubes web site.

Is there a cheap source in Australia for the tape?


Bummer, should have bundled it with your Wiggle order and they'd send it out separately when it came in. Ask around your mates maybe...


O.K. - I should have said 'no decent rim tape'. They only sell the reinforced nylon stuff that TLL advised against.
I ride, therefore I am.
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
User avatar
twizzle
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:45 am
Location: Taking a break.

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby toolonglegs » Fri Jun 12, 2009 4:48 pm

twizzle wrote:I've just ordered most of the bits from Wiggle, but no rim tape was available. But I also don't want to pay $36 Au (as CoffsGal did) for a roll of tape that costs US $5 from the no-tubes web site.

Is there a cheap source in Australia for the tape?



It's not the $5 tape...it's the $10.50 21mm tape which they are out of stock on at stans :shock:
Yeah the reinforced tape is useless for holding air....it just splits down the middle.
Image
User avatar
toolonglegs
 
Posts: 14029
Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby CoffsGal » Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:33 pm

twizzle wrote:I've just ordered most of the bits from Wiggle, but no rim tape was available. But I also don't want to pay $36 Au (as CoffsGal did) for a roll of tape that costs US $5 from the no-tubes web site.

Is there a cheap source in Australia for the tape?


I did quite a bit of research and could only get it from LBS via Dirt Works...Dirt Works wouldn't sell direct to me.

Here is my email to Stan...
Hi NoTubes people,

I am in Australia and would like to know where in Australia I can purchase Stan's spoke tape, sealant and valve stems for my road
bike which has 700c Shimano Ultegra rims.

Or should I purchase it directly from you, and what would postage costs be?

Please advise.
Best Regards
Emma

Here is the reply from Stan...
Hi,
You can check with the dealers listed. http://www.notubes.com/info_dealer.php

You can order direct. I do not do the shipping but a guess would be around $40- $50.00 dollars. You can place your order online and it should give you a rough idea on the shipping. You package will not be over size so the website shipping should be close.

Thanks,
Stan
NoTubes
202 Daniel Zenker Dr
Big Flats NY 14814
(607) 562-2877
Fax (607) 562-2879


Here is the excerpt from the NoTubes dearlers page...

Maybe a group of you could order a few rolls and split the shipping costs. Makes me think that there can't be many tubeless road users in Australia if the yellow tape is so hard to obtain...is especially disappointing that Wiggle doesn't have it despite having all the other bits.

Welcome aboard the tubeless wagon by the way Twizzle...

Emma
User avatar
CoffsGal
 
Posts: 865
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:35 pm
Location: Mid North Coast NSW

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby twizzle » Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:18 pm

Well, I would be going tubeless, but I just got an email from Wiggle saying that their supplier didn't actually have the valve stems so I have to wait until the end of the month before they get shipped.

Coffsgal - I'll check with my LBS. They seem to get excellent prices for me, and I might be able to convince them to do a bulk deal. Hell, they might even agree to be a dealer - Dirt Works doesn't appear to be doing them any favours.

PS - re. shipping from the U.S. I was trying to find some front wheel bearings cones, and eventually discovered a site that had them. Then I discovered that their shipping costs were tied to the value of the items, so for $0-$20US, it was $40US for shipping, and just got worse from then on. Pretty much all of the U.S. sites turned out to be like that. :roll:
I ride, therefore I am.
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
User avatar
twizzle
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:45 am
Location: Taking a break.

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby CoffsGal » Sun Jun 14, 2009 5:33 pm

User update...

Got a puncture today, but not a flat tyre...went out through the hills and at a stop for the crew to regroup I noticed spots of white sealant on the chain stay near the bottom bracket...after an inspection I found a small hole in the rear tyre...whatever had made the hole (probably a tiny piece of sharp gravel) had come out and the sealant had sealed the hole...I continued on the journey (55km) and arrived home with the tyre still inflated, although from time to time I could see a few spots of sealant collecting on the chain stay...it seems the hole was opening up from time to time but not enough to require reinflating...I have left the hole on the bottom of the wheel and will see if it requires a patch over the next few rides...

Emma
User avatar
CoffsGal
 
Posts: 865
Joined: Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:35 pm
Location: Mid North Coast NSW

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby snedden9485 » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:48 pm

Pardon my ignorance, but are these the same as 'tubular' tyres that the pros use and track riders use at high pressure eg 160psi?
Chris
2011 Giant TCR Advanced SL
2011 Malvern Star Oppy TT9 Time Trial
2011 Giant Omnium Track
2012 Giant XTC Composite 29
User avatar
snedden9485
 
Posts: 1446
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:25 am
Location: Newcastle, NSW, AU

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby twizzle » Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:55 pm

snedden9485 wrote:Pardon my ignorance, but are these the same as 'tubular' tyres that the pros use and track riders use at high pressure eg 160psi?


Nope - tubeless clinchers is what we are talking about. Tubulars have the tube enclosed in the tyre and the tyre is glued to the rim.
I ride, therefore I am.
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
User avatar
twizzle
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:45 am
Location: Taking a break.

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby snedden9485 » Mon Jun 15, 2009 5:08 pm

twizzle wrote:
snedden9485 wrote:Pardon my ignorance, but are these the same as 'tubular' tyres that the pros use and track riders use at high pressure eg 160psi?


Nope - tubeless clinchers is what we are talking about. Tubulars have the tube enclosed in the tyre and the tyre is glued to the rim.


I see i see. Sounds like a good thing for racing where punctures are an issue.
Chris
2011 Giant TCR Advanced SL
2011 Malvern Star Oppy TT9 Time Trial
2011 Giant Omnium Track
2012 Giant XTC Composite 29
User avatar
snedden9485
 
Posts: 1446
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:25 am
Location: Newcastle, NSW, AU

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby twizzle » Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:29 pm

snedden9485 wrote:
twizzle wrote:
snedden9485 wrote:Pardon my ignorance, but are these the same as 'tubular' tyres that the pros use and track riders use at high pressure eg 160psi?


Nope - tubeless clinchers is what we are talking about. Tubulars have the tube enclosed in the tyre and the tyre is glued to the rim.


I see i see. Sounds like a good thing for racing where punctures are an issue.


Screw that - I'm sick of fixing punctures in fog and drizzle with frozen hands by bike light before the sun has come up over the horizon. Bugger racing! :roll:

Actually, I haven't raced since Easter. But I did kick arse with the PedalPower 'social' ride on the weekend... 109km at 27.6 avg (buggered the average waiting for slow people :x), first on two out of three climbs and second on the third, and I'm still a fat bastard on a steelie. Come to think of it... the three of us going strong at the end were all on steel. Plastic and Beercans were dropped by the wayside as the Rust Buckets hammered home. :twisted: Two people were changing flats at the start, and we collected two riders from the 'slow' group near the end of the ride after they punctured and got dropped.

Anyway - I digress. Sitting in a box at work are three tyres and a bottle of sealant which appeared at my post office box this morning, only four days after I placed my order. Now, if only I had some valve stems and rim tape to complement it...
I ride, therefore I am.
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
User avatar
twizzle
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:45 am
Location: Taking a break.

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby twizzle » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:58 pm

Phantom Cycles carries the rim tape for $30.95 plus P&H which makes it $38.something delivered to my P.O. box. My LBS can get it at the same price CoffsGal did, which I guess means DirtWorks has set a RRP which they are following. But... my LBS is 12km away, and my PO Box is 500m from my work place, so PhantomCycles it is. Now I just need the valve stems to arrive from the U.K. sometime in the next week or two. Waiting.... waiting.... waiting....
I ride, therefore I am.
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
User avatar
twizzle
 
Posts: 6382
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2008 11:45 am
Location: Taking a break.

Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes

Postby Kalgrm » Wed Jun 17, 2009 4:49 pm

twizzle wrote: Plastic and Beercans were dropped by the wayside as the Rust Buckets hammered home. :twisted:

Would you get your 5c deposit per frame back in SA for these? :wink:
Think outside the double triangle.
---------------------------------------
My web site: www.scenebyhird.com
---------------------------------------
The Bicycle Transportation Alliance
User avatar
Kalgrm
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 9236
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 5:21 pm
Location: Spearwood, 9km SE of Fremantle, WA

PreviousNext

Return to The Shed

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users



Support BNA
Click for online shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Cycling Express Cycling Express
Ebay Ebay AU
ProBikeKit ProBikeKit UK
Evans Cycles Evans Cycles UK
JensonUSA Jenson USA
JensonUSA Competitive Cyclist