Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby waynohh » Wed Jun 17, 2009 5:01 pm
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby CoffsGal » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:14 pm
Well it isn't really a effort...just a couple of minutes to roll two turns of the spoke tape around the rim...the issue is that the spoke tape is difficult to source and more expensive than it needs to be...no doubt that will change in time...waynohh wrote:Wow, so much effort if you have spoke holes to worry about! No wonder the take up is so slow...
I mentioned a couple of days ago that I had a puncture (but not a flat), and the hole continued to spatter sealant on the frame intermittently during the remainder of the ride. As the hole was not tiny, I wondered if I might need to to put a patch on the inside of the tyre. I left the wheel with the hole at the bottom overnight and today I did a short 32km ride and had no sealant escaping.
That is now two punctures that have sealed themselves and haven't required further action except to top up the air the the next day in the most recent case.
Emma
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby herzog » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:15 pm
Not as much effort as fixing a puncture in the rain!waynohh wrote:Wow, so much effort if you have spoke holes to worry about! No wonder the take up is so slow...
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby twizzle » Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:00 pm
BTW - I'm only going to run tubeless in the rear (for now). I've only had two front punctures in two years.
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby Kalgrm » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:33 pm
Oh dear. Is your life insurance up to date?twizzle wrote:BTW - I'm only going to run tubeless in the rear (for now). I've only had two front punctures in two years.
Cheers,
Graeme
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Music was better when ugly people were allowed to make it ....
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby twizzle » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:17 am
Kalgrm wrote:Oh dear. Is your life insurance up to date?twizzle wrote:BTW - I'm only going to run tubeless in the rear (for now). I've only had two front punctures in two years.
Cheers,
Graeme
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby 531db » Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:44 am
I'm guessing Graeme is refering to the differing handling characteristics of tubeless at 90 psi on the rear, and tubed at 111/120 psi on the front. Could be interesting in a Stromlo crit.twizzle wrote:Kalgrm wrote:Oh dear. Is your life insurance up to date?twizzle wrote:BTW - I'm only going to run tubeless in the rear (for now). I've only had two front punctures in two years.
Cheers,
Graeme
Sort of like with cars where you don't mix radial and crossply tyres.
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby Kalgrm » Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:09 am
I was referring to the fact that you're prepared to have a front tyre puncture, which is potentially more dangerous than a rear tyre one. Of course, the probability of having that puncture is very low and is not increased by having a tubeless tyre on the rear.
'Twas a joke ...
Cheers,
Graeme
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby twizzle » Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:49 pm
And Kalgrm - that was a SAD attempt at humour. You should have just called me a tight-arse for only spending money on one end of the bike and unfashionable for not having matched tyres.
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby Kalgrm » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:27 pm
Sums up my life, really ...twizzle wrote:And Kalgrm - that was a SAD attempt at humour.
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby MountGower » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:33 pm
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby twizzle » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:22 pm
They only make them in 25mm....MountGower wrote:This thread has kept me coming back. A great thread, indeed. Unfortunately it may be a few months before I get a chance to go tubeless myself. However, in the mean time I would really like to know if anyone discovers a place to buy Intensives for a good price. Preferably in 25c.
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby CoffsGal » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:11 pm
I mentioned yesterday that a puncture I received on the weekend had sealed itself, and that I had since done a 32km ride without any leakage...today as it was a little wet outdoors, I did a spin on the rollers. After about 4km the hole started spitting sealant again. So it was off with the tyre and I fitted a patch to the inside. The hole was similar in size to a hole that one would patch in a normal clincher anyway. The rollers obviously were too much for the sealant, probably due to all the weight being on such a small suface area causing considerable tyre distortion.
I did have a close inspection of the rear tyre and noticed several slices along the tread. The slices are not very deep and I suspect are from locking the rear wheel on a couple of occasion while braking down a steep hill. This indicates to me that the Hutchison Fusion2 tubeless are not as robust as the GP4000S's that I used previously, which didn't show this type of wear.
The Hutchison Intensive would probably be a better alternative for commuting purposes (if one could find them). According to their website they have increased wearability and puncture resistance over the Fusion 2.
Emma
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby twizzle » Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:04 am
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby CoffsGal » Fri Jun 19, 2009 10:30 pm
This makes the tape AU$7.72 plus delivery...Thank you for your email.
we have the 21mm stan's rim tape available here (yellow rather than as pictured)
http://www.this link is broken/p/cycle/7/No_Tu ... 360042194/
Regards
Shane
Wiggle Customer Services
Emma
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby twizzle » Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:33 am
Oh, that really sucks. Why couldn't they have had that shown correctly when I was ordering!CoffsGal wrote:Here is the response from Wiggle to my email asking about Stan's 21mm Yellow tape...
This makes the tape AU$7.72 plus delivery...Thank you for your email.
we have the 21mm stan's rim tape available here (yellow rather than as pictured)
http://www.this link is broken/p/cycle/7/No_Tu ... 360042194/
Regards
Shane
Wiggle Customer Services
Emma
Neither my tape or my stems has shipped yet.
...real cyclists don't have squeaky chains...
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby justD » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:50 pm
Tonight I realized that out of the 4 tubes I've replaced this year, 3 attempts were unsuccessful. Tonight was no different! I put a new tube in the back and as soon as I had the wheel back on the bike, it went "pooffff" and I felt the air escaping past my face. SUX!!! I am Mr clumsy/unhandy himself.
So I'll get one more tube this week, but start sourcing what I need to go tubeless. There is hope for me after all
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby waynohh » Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:42 am
2x roadtubeless tires (required)
Fusion 2 $65 ea http://www.this link is broken/p/cycle/7/Hutch ... 360042198/
OR Intensive (training, not available) <insert non existent url here>
OR Atom (race)
2x valve stems (required)
Stans 44mm road $12 ea http://www.this link is broken/p/cycle/7/No_Tu ... 360042193/ (longest and best choice. order 4x for spares)
OR Stans mtb UST $12 ea http://www.this link is broken/p/cycle/7/No_Tu ... 360027648/
(mtb UST may be an ok substitute if your rims are shallow enough, eg front Ksyrium Elite is shallow enough, rear is not)
2x compatible wheels (required)
Your existing rims with 1x Stans 21mm yellow rim tape $8 ea http://www.this link is broken/p/cycle/7/No_Tu ... 360042194/
(order 2x for spares)
OR
Shimano Dura Ace 7850 SL $970/set http://www.this link is broken/Mode ... elID=25969 (best choice, square rim lip)
Mavic Ksyrium Elite silver $720/set http://www.this link is broken/Mode ... elID=30809 (cheaper option, round rim lip)
Mavic Ksyrium Elite black $750/set <same as above>
Mavic Ksyrium SL $1200/set, SL Premium (AT) $1300/set, R-Sys (AT) $1770/set + IMPORT TAX unless you order front and rear separate with adequate time between.
Shimano Ultegra 6700 <coming late 2009>
1x sealant (required unless using square lip rims i.e. DA/Ultegra)
Stans sealant 500ml $16 ea http://www.this link is broken/p/cycle/7/No_Tu ... 360027640/
OR Stans sealant 1L $24 ea http://www.this link is broken/p/cycle/7/No_Tu ... 360027641/
OR Joes sealant
OR liquid latex, etc
1x valve core remover (optional)
Stans valve core remover $8 ea http://www.this link is broken/p/cycle/7/No_Tu ... 360027642/
Example shopping list:
2x Fusion 2 $65 ea = $130
4x Stans 44mm road $12 ea = $48
2x Stans 21mm rim tape $8 ea = $16
1x Stans sealant 500ml $16 ea = $16
Total = $210 AUD
Free shipping
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby toolonglegs » Tue Jun 23, 2009 3:13 pm
I notice there are a lot of wheels promoting "2 way fit" now....the change is coming.
But will say they do need to get a very robust tyre on the market because I wouldn't call Fusion 2's overly tough.They are a race tyre and are not really suited to training or commuting.I have been training for a while on older ones and haven't had them last long.
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby justD » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:25 pm
Is this true? I don't know much about tyres, but...
My bike's specs are:
rims: Alloy double wall 700c x 36H
tyres: Kenda 700 x 38c
I have already replaced my tyres with Armadillo 700x28c and on the Hutchinson Fusion 2 info page on Wiggle they mention 700 x 28C, so surely that means they'll fit?
Thanks for the info waynohh and everyone so far.
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby CoffsGal » Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:32 pm
The fusion 2 Tubeless only come in 700x23...you may have been looking at the standard Fusion 2 which is not tubeless...also note the sizing chart on Wiggle states that not all tyres come in the sizes mentioned...justD wrote:Okay, I was at the LBS today to pick up 2 new tubes. They said the tubeless system (Stan's) is only available on high-end racing bikes and not on my Giant Elwood SE (Hybrid) and that I'd have to replace the whole wheel, which is pretty expensive!!
Is this true? I don't know much about tyres, but...
My bike's specs are:
rims: Alloy double wall 700c x 36H
tyres: Kenda 700 x 38c
I have already replaced my tyres with Armadillo 700x28c and on the Hutchinson Fusion 2 info page on Wiggle they mention 700 x 28C, so surely that means they'll fit?
Thanks for the info waynohh and everyone so far.
http://www.hutchinsontires.com/us/catal ... rs=4&pid=3
Emma
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby justD » Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:18 pm
Yep, I thought the "Sizing Information" chart on that page was all the sizes that the tubeless tyre comes in. Sux bigtime!!CoffsGal wrote:...also note the sizing chart on Wiggle states that not all tyres come in the sizes mentioned...
Well, at least I got a normal tube into my wheel tonight without ripping it apart. This is my handywork on a brand new tube last night:
Also, I've learnt that I have a car valve on the back and a french valve (?) on the front and french valve as a spare. Spare would not be much use if I got a flat on the back as I don't have an extra little fitting to make the french valve fit on my rims... So we learn.
Guess I'll just have to keep practicing with changing tyres. What are my alternatives? What's the strongest/most glass resistent tyre/tube I can get for a 700x35c?
Actually, I'll do a bit of searching and I need to understand tyre sizes - guess there might be something out there for me still.
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby Thoglette » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:52 am
Just about anything with a kelvar (aka aramid) puncture belt. Eg. Schwabe Marathon Supreme, Panaracer Pasela Tourguard to name a few.justD wrote:Guess I'll just have to keep practicing with changing tyres. What are my alternatives? What's the strongest/most glass resistent tyre/tube I can get for a 700x35c?
Go and read Sheldon's article on tyres There's a link to the joys of tyre sizes there toojustD wrote: Actually, I'll do a bit of searching and I need to understand tyre sizes - guess there might be something out there for me still.
"People are worthy of respect, ideas are not." Peter Ellerton, UQ
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby justD » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:33 pm
Seems like there is hope for me afterall - here's a 700x35c from noTubes.com - http://www.notubes.com/product_info.php/products_id/441.
What drives me up the wall, is the well-known LBS who told me I can't get it on my wheel size, is listed as a dealer for Dirt Works Australia, who distributes NoTubes' products. Why don't they say they're not certain instead of leading me to believe that I'll have to replace my rims?
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Re: Tubeless tyre system for road bikes
Postby CoffsGal » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:38 pm
The tyre you have linked to is a cylocross type...it will fit your rims but wont have the best rolling properties for road use...it has a maximum pressure of 45psi which is a very low maximum...unless you are doing a majority of kms off road this probably wont be a good choice...justD wrote:Thanks for that Thoglette,
Seems like there is hope for me afterall - here's a 700x35c from noTubes.com - http://www.notubes.com/product_info.php/products_id/441.
What drives me up the wall, is the well-known LBS who told me I can't get it on my wheel size, is listed as a dealer for Dirt Works Australia, who distributes NoTubes' products. Why don't they say they're not certain instead of leading me to believe that I'll have to replace my rims?
Maybe get some tuition on tyre and tube fitting and you will be ok with standard tubed clinchers...there is lots of info on the net or ask your local bike club, LBS, BUG etc...
Emma
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