First TT

Individual and Team TT

First TT

Postby Kev365428 » Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:05 am

Yesterday I did my first Individual Time Trial. A 17km out and back course at Menangle. Bikely map here.

Having not done much riding over the last 3 weeks due to back problems, and after being smashed at the interclub race at Dapto last week, I wasn't really expecting much from myself.

A quick look at last years results and I was able to see what times other riders in our club had done, so that gave me a bit of a gauge for what I should aim for.

I decided that if I could average over 32km/h I'd be happy with that.

I averaged 32.2km/h and had a time of 31.38. 8)

Prior to starting some of Alex's words were ringing in my ears from another thread on this forum. "The biggest mistake most people make in TT is going out to hard at the start." (or something like that).

So with that in mind I took off fast to get the momentum up, then backed off and spun up the hills (I hate hills) to conserve energy.

Only two tough-ish hills on the course, so once over them and on the way back in, I upped the pace. The last 1.2 km is a gentle downhill stretch and with the breeze at my back, I sat on 50km/h for the last km.

My HR for the course was gradually increasing with a max of 188bpm and an average of 171bpm.

In retrospect I probably could have pushed harder a little earlier in the race, but having never ridden that course before I didn't know what to expect so I didn't want to bonk before finishing.

The winner had a time of 25:25 and 5th place had a time of 28+ minutes (can't remember the exact time). The last guy home was 40+ minutes.

So I'm pretty happy with my effort considering non-existent training schedule, lack of conditioning and unfamiliarity with the course.

Looking forward to next year.

Chuck was out there as well and considering it was only his second attempt at any form of racing, I reckon he did quite well. Can't remember his exact time but it was around 36 minutes I think.

Good on ya Mate.

Kev.
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by BNA » Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:40 am

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Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:40 am

Sounds like pacing was pretty good to me :)

Nice work. Going to do more?

ATTA run a TT at Calga 1st Sunday of every month. :wink:


It is way more important to be going a little too slow at the start than a little too fast. The time lost by going too hard too early and having to slow down to recover can never be made up.

This is as true for events as short as a 2km individual pursuit as is it for a 7+ hour Sportive ride through the French Alps.

I've actually got a paper on the topic of quantifying the optimisation of TT pacing coming out in the next few weeks.
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Postby LuckyPierre » Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:51 am

Well done Kev! It's easy to see why Phil Liggert rabbits on about time trials as being: "the race of truth", isn't it.
We use this course for our club time trials.
The Australian Time Trial Association publish age standards which make for interesting reading.
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Re: First TT

Postby Chuck » Sun Jun 22, 2008 10:53 am

Kev365428 wrote:Yesterday I did my first Individual Time Trial. A 17km out and back course at Menangle. Bikely map here.

Having not done much riding over the last 3 weeks due to back problems, and after being smashed at the interclub race at Dapto last week, I wasn't really expecting much from myself.

A quick look at last years results and I was able to see what times other riders in our club had done, so that gave me a bit of a gauge for what I should aim for.

I decided that if I could average over 32km/h I'd be happy with that.

I averaged 32.2km/h and had a time of 31.38. 8)

Prior to starting some of Alex's words were ringing in my ears from another thread on this forum. "The biggest mistake most people make in TT is going out to hard at the start." (or something like that).

So with that in mind I took off fast to get the momentum up, then backed off and spun up the hills (I hate hills) to conserve energy.

Only two tough-ish hills on the course, so once over them and on the way back in, I upped the pace. The last 1.2 km is a gentle downhill stretch and with the breeze at my back, I sat on 50km/h for the last km.

My HR for the course was gradually increasing with a max of 188bpm and an average of 171bpm.

In retrospect I probably could have pushed harder a little earlier in the race, but having never ridden that course before I didn't know what to expect so I didn't want to bonk before finishing.

The winner had a time of 25:25 and 5th place had a time of 28+ minutes (can't remember the exact time). The last guy home was 40+ minutes.

So I'm pretty happy with my effort considering non-existent training schedule, lack of conditioning and unfamiliarity with the course.

Looking forward to next year.

Chuck was out there as well and considering it was only his second attempt at any form of racing, I reckon he did quite well. Can't remember his exact time but it was around 36 minutes I think.

Good on ya Mate.

Kev.



Cheers Kev, good ride mate.

Also was thinking about Alex's advice about not going out too hard at the start.

I know the time wasn't flash but it was about as well as I could have done at this stage.

Challenging course for me, especially on the way out into that headwind. Throw in a couple of hills and I was definitely struggling.

About 22' to the turn around point and 14' plus on the way back.

Very enjoyable.

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Postby Kev365428 » Sun Jun 22, 2008 1:00 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Sounds like pacing was pretty good to me :)

Nice work. Going to do more?


Thanks Alex. Certainly aim to do a few more this year if I can. I've seen a few clubs run TT's at the Calga course, so I might investigate a little further.


Alex Simmons/RST wrote:It is way more important to be going a little too slow at the start than a little too fast. The time lost by going too hard too early and having to slow down to recover can never be made up.


Fully agree. Looking at my HR stats for the race at Dapto last weekend showed that due to lack of conditioning my HR peaked within the first 10km of the race. Subsequently I was dropped by the 15km stage and with a roaring headwind, I had no chance of gettng back on. As a result I was hopelessly passed by all other groups and finished the race absolutely shattered.

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:I've actually got a paper on the topic of quantifying the optimisation of TT pacing coming out in the next few weeks.


Where can this be read when released?

Thanks Pierre. "The race of truth" - i like it. Very apt.

Chuck, I reckon you did well, considering your experience in racing. Plus that wind was a bugger, as your "out v back" times show.

Kev.

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Postby zozza » Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:27 pm

Good one Kev and Chuck, sounds like fun!
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Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sun Jun 22, 2008 8:33 pm

Kev365428 wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:I've actually got a paper on the topic of quantifying the optimisation of TT pacing coming out in the next few weeks.


Where can this be read when released?


I will be posting it on the wattage forum files section when done as that is the source of many of the TT power meter files I have analysed. It is also the place where such things will garner the greatest scrutiny and criticism (which is a good thing - as these need to stand up to such scrutiny).

It flows on from my work modelling courses to provice pacing advice that is both a. physiological attainable and b. minimises the time taken on a given course and conditions.

At its simplest level, it answers the question: in a TT, how hard should I ride into the wind/up that hill/with wind/down the other side so that I don't blow up while also maximising my overall average speed?

It is a complex but entirely solveable problem drawing on the work of some leading sports scientists as well as some mathematicians of centuries past, not least of which was Issac Newton!

Apart from being academic, it also has to be practical.
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Postby mikesbytes » Sun Jun 22, 2008 9:26 pm

Great riding Kev.

Your time sounds pretty good, more towards the pointy end than the tail end.

BTW, I haven't done yet :idea:
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Postby Kev365428 » Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:57 am

Thanks mike,

Like I said, I pretty happy with the result all things considered.

Our next race is on the same course, but 3 laps long (45 km). Will be interesting to see how I go there in 2 weeks time. Not a TT, but a handicap event, so hopefully I can stay with the group this time.

In August we have our hill climb up Old Mt Razorback Rd. I reckon you and Sogood, along with Sandman, Boognos and Lexi should join Chuck and myself on the day. Sandman would love the hill, but it's only a pup compared to Lapstone.

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Postby sandman » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:02 am

Hey Kev

Sounds like a plan, let us know the date. I'm keen to just to ride with you guys in a group/paceline/roadblock :lol: , whatever :-) be nice to meet you and Sogood...

Cheers..Pete
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Postby Kev365428 » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:15 am

Pete,

Excellent. Just to be sure you know, it is a club race (TT in fact) so no group riding or paceline, but I reckon you might enjoy it as it's only 3.8 km long, but the gradient peaks at 16% at the end.

See the Macarthur websire for details (here).

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Postby sandman » Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:04 pm

Kev

Ahh misunderstood, didn't think it was a TT. Think I'll have to go ride this one first to see what its all about :-)

Cheers..Pete
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Re: First TT

Postby zozza » Thu Jun 18, 2009 7:26 am

Kev365428 wrote:Yesterday I did my first Individual Time Trial. A 17km out and back course at Menangle. Bikely map here.

Having not done much riding over the last 3 weeks due to back problems, and after being smashed at the interclub race at Dapto last week, I wasn't really expecting much from myself.

A quick look at last years results and I was able to see what times other riders in our club had done, so that gave me a bit of a gauge for what I should aim for.

I decided that if I could average over 32km/h I'd be happy with that.

I averaged 32.2km/h and had a time of 31.38. 8)

Prior to starting some of Alex's words were ringing in my ears from another thread on this forum. "The biggest mistake most people make in TT is going out to hard at the start." (or something like that).

So with that in mind I took off fast to get the momentum up, then backed off and spun up the hills (I hate hills) to conserve energy.

Only two tough-ish hills on the course, so once over them and on the way back in, I upped the pace. The last 1.2 km is a gentle downhill stretch and with the breeze at my back, I sat on 50km/h for the last km.

My HR for the course was gradually increasing with a max of 188bpm and an average of 171bpm.

In retrospect I probably could have pushed harder a little earlier in the race, but having never ridden that course before I didn't know what to expect so I didn't want to bonk before finishing.

The winner had a time of 25:25 and 5th place had a time of 28+ minutes (can't remember the exact time). The last guy home was 40+ minutes.

So I'm pretty happy with my effort considering non-existent training schedule, lack of conditioning and unfamiliarity with the course.

Looking forward to next year.

Chuck was out there as well and considering it was only his second attempt at any form of racing, I reckon he did quite well. Can't remember his exact time but it was around 36 minutes I think.

Good on ya Mate.

Kev.



Hey Kev90210,
Is this the race thats on for this Sat arvy (MCCC 2009)
Sounds tempting :D
Just putting it out there :)
Gonna try to be there
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Re: First TT

Postby Grant W » Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:38 pm

Hi Zozza,
I think it is.

Hope the rain and the typical winter westerly's bugger off.

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Re: First TT

Postby aeroslave » Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:19 am

zozza wrote:
Kev365428 wrote:Yesterday I did my first Individual Time Trial. A 17km out and back course at Menangle. Bikely map here.

Having not done much riding over the last 3 weeks due to back problems, and after being smashed at the interclub race at Dapto last week, I wasn't really expecting much from myself.

A quick look at last years results and I was able to see what times other riders in our club had done, so that gave me a bit of a gauge for what I should aim for.

I decided that if I could average over 32km/h I'd be happy with that.

I averaged 32.2km/h and had a time of 31.38. 8)

Prior to starting some of Alex's words were ringing in my ears from another thread on this forum. "The biggest mistake most people make in TT is going out to hard at the start." (or something like that).

So with that in mind I took off fast to get the momentum up, then backed off and spun up the hills (I hate hills) to conserve energy.

Only two tough-ish hills on the course, so once over them and on the way back in, I upped the pace. The last 1.2 km is a gentle downhill stretch and with the breeze at my back, I sat on 50km/h for the last km.

My HR for the course was gradually increasing with a max of 188bpm and an average of 171bpm.

In retrospect I probably could have pushed harder a little earlier in the race, but having never ridden that course before I didn't know what to expect so I didn't want to bonk before finishing.

The winner had a time of 25:25 and 5th place had a time of 28+ minutes (can't remember the exact time). The last guy home was 40+ minutes.

So I'm pretty happy with my effort considering non-existent training schedule, lack of conditioning and unfamiliarity with the course.

Looking forward to next year.

Chuck was out there as well and considering it was only his second attempt at any form of racing, I reckon he did quite well. Can't remember his exact time but it was around 36 minutes I think.

Good on ya Mate.

Kev.



Hey Kev90210,
Is this the race thats on for this Sat arvy (MCCC 2009)
Sounds tempting :D
Just putting it out there :)
Gonna try to be there



Hey Zozz,...aren't you going to race the 90km Penrith Panthers Club Championships on Sunday?
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Re: First TT

Postby zozza » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:45 am

Hi Lou,
No bike action on Sunday :cry:
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Re: First TT

Postby Kev365428 » Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:43 am

Sorry for the late reply Zozz.

Yep, same race is on again today. My, how fast a year goes by.

Hope to see you out there mate.

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Re: First TT

Postby Kev365428 » Sat Jun 20, 2009 7:45 am

Also moving this thread over to the TT section.

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Re: First TT

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:31 pm

Hey Kev, wot time will you do, compared with last year ?
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Re: First TT

Postby zozza » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:37 pm

I'm glad I made the effort to get down to Menangle today and get my first TT out of the way. I didn't know the course or what to expect.
Did it in 30min 39sec i think. Pretty happy for first attempt.
Probably a good idea to invest in a HRM to better manage my race,
Like many others have said of their first TT, I reckon I should have gone out slower as my return was noticably more difficult.

Definately up for some more TT's,

Good to see you Kev, all mended up nicely 8)


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Re: First TT

Postby Kev365428 » Sun Jun 21, 2009 9:00 am

Hey Mike,

Last years time was 31:38 so I was aiming to better it by a minute.

Funny how your plans and expectations sometimes don't line up with reality. :roll:

I ended up doing a 33:30, which really p!ssed me off. :x I should have done much better. No excuses though, just not as fit as I was last year.
Compared to last year, I have only done a handful of rides over 60km, whereas I had done a 100km ride at least once a month in the lead up to last years race.

Zozz, good to see you again mate, and a spectacular performance for your first ITT and on an unknown course to boot. Well done. :D

One of my goals is to get our club to run more ITT events next winter, of varying lengths and on different courses, with a view to providing some regular ITT events for people south of the harbour, much like the Calga Time Trials. The hard part is getting people for traffic control and marshalling duties. Everybody wants to ride for some reason. :roll:

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Re: First TT

Postby Grant W » Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:39 pm

Hi All,
Like Zoz, My first TT as well. HELL YEAH

I loved it. Could do it every weekend, awsome.

Don't beat yourself up Kev, a half a season off with injury does not help PB's mate.

went out with the intention to keep HR under control which was the case for the warm up, and that was it.

Two minutes from my start my HR was 85, at my 30 sec countdown it was 153. out of the start I kicked hard for mommentum and when I settled in the saddle I was 45km/h at 195HR, oops, and it did not come under this until the finish with the last 1.5km over 200Beats/min.

I got alittle greedy at the turn around point and came off the bike in the wet. (Kev, I hope you took the photo with me on the saddle not on the ground :-) )
I damaged the rear de-railure and front leaver leaving only two gears on the big ring for the trip home.

Did it in 31min which i'm stoked with, the TT are just great.

Hence I need advice. I would love a TT bike but to buy one either new or second hand for something decent is out of the budget at the moment.
I have an Orbea road bike which is an 09 with Ultegra group set. I'm thinking of buying a set of aero bars to replace the standard road bars and maybe a set of good second hand wheels to replace the Shimano 20 wheels the bike came with.

I can pick up a great second hand set of areo bars for under $500.00 with brake levers and shinano gear levers and a set of second hand Zipp wheels for under $2K. What I want to know is, Is it worth it. The geometry if the frame is different between road and TT. I'm only a C-D grader not a world beater, would this be a worth while idea, or would it be better to sell the Orbea and save for a TT bike.

Kev, more TT's would be great. I'm hooked.

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Re: First TT

Postby Kev365428 » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:57 pm

Didn't get any photos of you on your arse Grant. Pity. :D

Didn't take many pics at all. To busy telling riders to slow down due to the slippery state of the turn around. Some guys were coming down that hill at close to 50km/h I reckon. Plenty hit the anchors and locked up the rear, some even wheel spun when climbing back up the hill.

I only p1ssed because I really thought I was in better condition this year compared to last. Look out next year, plenty of training in the lead up.

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Re: First TT

Postby zozza » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:40 pm

Jeez Kev,

I really hope we don't have to wait a full year to do that again,

I can't wait that long :D
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Re: First TT

Postby aeroslave » Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:14 pm

zozza wrote:Jeez Kev,

I really hope we don't have to wait a full year to do that again,

I can't wait that long :D



Zozz, after talking to you yesterday I am looking forward to trying out this ITT....sounds like heaps of fun....
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