Rasmussen - it gets worse
- toolonglegs
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Rasmussen - it gets worse
Postby toolonglegs » Sat Jul 21, 2007 8:59 am
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Postby europa » Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:17 pm
As for Rasmussen - well, I've stopped barracking for him. Hope he fades in the time trials and it's going to be hard to accept a sudden improvement in his time trialling after his past record. I'll soften my opinion if he performs as expected tonight (ie badly) because his mountain climbing, while incredible, is pretty much what we've come to expect from him ... though I won't soften it much.
There's a lot of politics being played in Denmark - tests and other things being released when they shouldn't be and to obscure sources. It's not hard to get the feeling that the Danish authorities are out to get him ... but that might be because they know something.
Richard
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Postby toolonglegs » Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:15 pm
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Postby tallywhacker » Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:04 am
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Postby europa » Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:11 am
A popular misconception. It is the basis of the British system, which we and the yanks have adopted. Many European countries use a system where you must prove your innocence - sort of the reverse.tallywhacker wrote:I always thought the basis of the western justice system was innocent until PROVEN guilty
Richard
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Postby sogood » Mon Jul 23, 2007 11:12 am
That's an ideal often not achieved. At the same time, the delay in the justice system has the potential to seriously disadvantage others.tallywhacker wrote:I always thought the basis of the western justice system was innocent until PROVEN guilty
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Postby tuco » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:13 pm
In an odd way I think proving your innocence is the way to go. I'm talking regular crimes here. The police go to a lot of trouble getting evidence and won't charge someone until they have the proof. Their have better things to do than sit around in court all day. Of course a system like proving your innocence would involve the media not reporting a person as charged just in case their are innocent.europa wrote:A popular misconception. It is the basis of the British system, which we and the yanks have adopted. Many European countries use a system where you must prove your innocence - sort of the reverse.tallywhacker wrote:I always thought the basis of the western justice system was innocent until PROVEN guilty
Richard
I honestly don't know how lawyers can live with their conscience knowing they are putting guilty people back on the street or at least getting their sentences reduced.
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Postby tallywhacker » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:44 pm
I have just sat thru nearly 4 weeks on a murder trial and I would have to say you are a little misguided there. The police are mostly clueless, they look for a best fit rather than the truth. Lawyers argue points of law rather than looking into the facts and journalists are interested only in selling newspapers than actually reporting the truth. But what I was originally alluding to was the journalism aspect. Journalists always report the truth, what we read on the internet is the gospel. Therefore if it is reported that Rasmussen doped then it must be true.tuco wrote:In an odd way I think proving your innocence is the way to go. I'm talking regular crimes here. The police go to a lot of trouble getting evidence and won't charge someone until they have the proof. Their have better things to do than sit around in court all day. Of course a system like proving your innocence would involve the media not reporting a person as charged just in case their are innocent.
I honestly don't know how lawyers can live with their conscience knowing they are putting guilty people back on the street or at least getting their sentences reduced.
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Postby Aushiker » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:55 pm
You mean like with the Indian doctor in Queensland?tuco wrote:The police go to a lot of trouble getting evidence and won't charge someone until they have the proof.
Cheers
Andrew
Aushiker.com
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Postby sogood » Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:14 pm
The allegation didn't say Rasmussen doped did it? I thought it was a case of Rasmussen being involved in doping related activities. Guilty by association being the closest description. No?tallywhacker wrote:But what I was originally alluding to was the journalism aspect. Journalists always report the truth, what we read on the internet is the gospel. Therefore if it is reported that Rasmussen doped then it must be true.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Postby tallywhacker » Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:34 pm
As for Rasmussen - well, I've stopped barracking for him. Hope he fades in the time trials and it's going to be hard to accept a sudden improvement in his time trialling after his past record. I'll soften my opinion if he performs as expected tonight (ie badly) because his mountain climbing, while incredible, is pretty much what we've come to expect from him ... though I won't soften it much.
yes,i have similar feelings,i have loved watching him race up mountains, especially last year as I stood on the col des croix fer as he flew by us on a gradient that was hard to walk on whilehe was in big ring on his way to a olo victory.
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Postby moosterbounce » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:18 pm
Anyway, Rassy is guilty of missing 4 doping controls. That's quite a few isn't it. One or two is careless...4, in my mind, is deliberate. It is more than just being forgetful. If it had have been a different agency, 2 misses would have constituted a non-negative test. Is he guilty of doping? No...nothing has been found.
I'm hoping he gets a case of infra-patella tendonitis (I just said it as I have it!!). He will still be able to ride fine but won't be able to push uphill. Am I hoping this because he has some question marks over him? Nah...he is beating our Cadel and after losing almost 2 minutes (and second spot) last night, every little bit helps!!
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Postby europa » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:41 pm
Rasmussen missed four random doping controls thanks to disappearing for three months earlier this year.sogood wrote:The allegation didn't say Rasmussen doped did it? I thought it was a case of Rasmussen being involved in doping related activities. Guilty by association being the closest description. No?tallywhacker wrote:But what I was originally alluding to was the journalism aspect. Journalists always report the truth, what we read on the internet is the gospel. Therefore if it is reported that Rasmussen doped then it must be true.
A couple of years back, he tried to get another rider to carry doping products from the US to Europe.
He's been at least involved in the doping industry which is enough to tarnish his reputation.
I think we're entitled to be cynical of extraordinary performances considering his background, but if he tests clean through this tour, you will not find me saying that he did well or won because of dope. Unlike Landis who was caught.
Richard
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Postby tallywhacker » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:55 pm
sort of reminds me of the guy from Silverchair saying he smoked dope with Garret and Bono. Whoops, he was just telling a little porky to get a little headline in the end wasn't he ? But then cycling people would never do that.A couple of years back, he tried to get another rider to carry doping products from the US to Europe.
He's been at least involved in the doping industry which is enough to tarnish his reputation.
did you see the 60 minutes interview with Stuie last night ?
LIZ HAYES: Would anyone have picked that — that the winner of last year's race was a drug cheat?
STUART O'GRADY: I would have because I was there with him that day when he was in that breakaway. I was actually 13 minutes ahead of him and he caught us on his own and then he basically rode us all off the wheel.
COMMENTATOR: Well, this is one of the most incredible performances I've seen.
LIZ HAYES: So you did think at the time that was odd?
STUART O'GRADY: I thought that was impossible, what he did. I'm not a bad bike rider and, you know, he made me look like a little kid.
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Postby Kev365428 » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:28 pm
What's that old saying - "If it looks like a fish, and it smells like a fish, then chances are......"moosterbounce wrote:Is Floyd guilty? Most of the world has said yes...though we are all waiting for the courts to decide. Therefore he is still innocent.
Anyway, Rassy is guilty of missing 4 doping controls. That's quite a few isn't it. One or two is careless...4, in my mind, is deliberate. It is more than just being forgetful. If it had have been a different agency, 2 misses would have constituted a non-negative test. Is he guilty of doping? No...nothing has been found.
Kev.
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- europa
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Postby europa » Mon Jul 23, 2007 9:37 pm
I wouldn't put much value on that sort of reaction. Media scrums do all sorts of weird things to your reactions - he might have been shaking with rage inside but trying to control it. I'm not sure the Danes are a demonstrative culture anyway are they?Bnej wrote:I think Rasmussen was pretty offhand and casual about getting banned by the Danish body. You would think he'd at least be offended if he'd done nothing at all wrong.
I hope he's clean. It'd be nice think they're all clean, but I guess the sport has a bit more to do before we can look forward to that
Richard
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Postby Womble » Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:13 am
Phenomenal is not the word being used to describe Rasmussen, as the skinny Dane continues to defy expectation - and the Tour hierarchy - as he marches towards what would be a very controversial triumph if it happens.
Rabobank, sponsored by a leading Dutch bank, have been under increasing pressure since Rasmussen admitted he had committed an 'administrative error' after missing random doping controls by the International Cycling Union (UCI) on March 24, 2006 and June 28, 2007.
The suspicion of doping is growing, and some teams are openly livid that he has not been pulled from the race.
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Postby europa » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:28 am
pwahhh - feline fish fartstuco wrote:. . . . you've just fed the cat?Kev365428 wrote:What's that old saying - "If it looks like a fish, and it smells like a fish, then chances are......".
Sorry, not a hijack attempt but that triggered such unpleasant memories that I had to foist them on you too
Richard
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Postby sogood » Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:32 am
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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