2009 Scott CR1 Comp, Pro, Triples, Rival

[waynohh]

2009 Scott CR1

There's an update in the second post now.


This review comes a bit late seeing how the 2010 models will soon be available. 2009 models are still available at the prices below, so still somewhat applicable.



Initial CR1 Ultegra build:


More photos can be found here: http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?t=16198

Where bought and price
2009 Scott CR1 Comp (bikes.com.au) $1950
2009 Shimano Ultegra SL triple group set (Ribble Cycles UK) +$1000
2009 Mavic Ksyrium Elite wheels (Chain Reaction Cycles UK) +$750
Sold Tiagra group set (ebay) -$500
Sold R500 wheels (ebay) -$200
Sub Total: $3000
Specialized Toupe 143mm saddle (UK) +$150
FSA K-Force Compact bars (Wiggle UK) +$250
Hope Ceramic BB (Wiggle UK) +$150
Hutchinson Fusion 2 road tubeless tires, Stans valves & sealant (Wiggle UK) +$150
Total: $3700

Stock 2009 CR1 COMP Price at the time of review: $1900 AUD + shipping.
Stock 2009 CR1 PRO Price at the time of review: $3400 to $3500 AUD + shipping.

How it is used
Saturday 60km group rides, longer event type rides. Only 700km total at time of review.

Description
FRAME: 2009 Scott CR1 Comp 52cm
FORKS: 2009 Scott CR1 Comp
HEADSET: Integrated Cartridge
WHEELS: 2009 Mavic Ksyrium Elite Black
TIRES: Hutchinson Fusion 2 road tubeless 700 x 23
SHIFTERS: Shimano Ultegra SL triple ST-6603
BRAKES: Shimano Ultegra SL BR-6600
CRANKS: Shimano Ultegra SL triple 52/39/30. 170mm length, 155mm pedal tread. FC-6603
FRONT DERAILLEUR: Shimano Ultegra SL triple FD-6603-B
REAR DERAILLEUR: Shimano Ultegra SL medium cage RD-6600-GS
CASSETTE: Shimano Ultegra 10 speed 12-23 CS-6600
CHAIN: Shimano Ultegra 10 speed SN-6600
PEDALS: Shimano SH-A520
BB: Hope Ceramic English
SEAT POST: Ritchey Carbon Pro 31.6 mm
SADDLE: Specialized Toupe 143mm
STEM: Scott Road Pro 110mm
BARS: FSA K-Force Compact 44mm
TAPE: Pro Gel
COMPUTER: Cat Eye Strada Cadence

TOTAL WEIGHT: Between 7.7kg and 7.8kg including pedals, cages and computer.

Stock 2009 CR1 COMP Weight: 8.3kg without pedals.
Stock 2009 CR1 PRO Weight: 7.9kg without pedals.

Positives:
+ CR1 sizes go up in small increments making it easier to choose the correct size online.
+ Stock Tiagra group set (CR1 Comp only) was quiet and seemed very solid, though I didn't actually ride it.
+ Stock double crank set version comes with a shark tooth to prevent chain falling off which is a nice touch.
+ Approx $1200 (CR1 Comp only) for a new carbon frame, forks and seat post is good value.
+ Mavic Ksyrium Elites (CR1 Pro only) are strong, light (1550g) and can run tubeless, though the rims won't retain the beads if completely flat.
+ Stiff but comfortable due to all the carbon, saddle and tubeless tires.

Negatives:
- Stock handlebar reach does not scale with frame size. The reach is too far on small frames.
- Stock saddle on all 3 models is not performance oriented; at least 400g.
- At this cheap price point (CR1 Comp only), you may not get a choice of compact or triple out of the box.
- Came with a paint chip on dérailleur hanger.
- Non-replaceable dérailleur hanger if you plan on racing i.e. crashing.
- Single click from front wheel drop out. Fixed with grease.
- Because of the inflated Australian prices, a CR1 Pro frame will cost you about $400 more than the exact same CR1 Comp frame. See below.

Additional notes

Comparison of Comp and Pro frame value:
2009 CR1 Comp = $1900 minus Tiagra Group = $500, Wheels and Tires = $200 leaving Frame and misc = $1200.
2009 CR1 Pro = $3500 minus Ultegra Group = $1000, Wheels and Tires = $800 leaving (exact same) Frame and misc = $1600.

Scott Road "Ergo" handlebars:
The reach of the stock bars to the hoods was far too long. I was more comfortable in the drops, but couldn't sustain that obviously. On a small (52cm) or XS frame, you get the same 120mm reach as on a M, L, XL, XXL frame. Forget changing stems, there's just no reason a short person needs this amount of reach. FSA Compacts start at $40 for the 300g Omega; are cheaper than a new stem and you get more room for climbing. Plenty of other brands to go for also, the 3T compacts look similar to FSA.

Scott Road saddle:
The Scott saddle weighed more than a 400g Strike Extra I have. It's heavily padded so ok for short rides, but that would be it. No center channel or other ergo design enhancements, purely flat on top. The Specialized Toupe saddle is 175g and comfortable but probably not as durable as some others.

Mavic Ksyrium Elites and Fusion 2 road tubeless tires:
Both tires mounted with soapy water and a floor pump but sometimes you will need a compressor or CO2 to get the beads on. They lose about 10psi/week so need checking at least every fortnight. They roll forever - I'm 82Kg and in a bunch can never pedal on flat ground at 30km/h, it's a bit unnerving. A bit more comfortable than tubes also. 700km so far, no flats.
More info here: http://www.bicycles.net.au/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=14640

PD-A520 pedals:
These take a bit getting used to as they aren't double sided like SPDs and they don't always rotate to the same position like SPD-SLs, so require frequent turning over. However you get recessed SPDs which you can walk in with a platform similar to road pedals because the bottom of the shoe sits flush with the pedal. Of course they won't be as efficient as road pedals because there's a rubber/metal interface instead of plastic/metal.
Weight of SH-RT51 shoes and and PD-A520 pedals = 330g pedals + 50g cleats + 585g shoes = 965g.
Which is comparable SH-R086 shoes and PD-6620 pedals = 320g pedals + 70g cleats + 570g shoes = 960g.

Ultegra SL Triple Weight:
The Shimano Tiagra and 105 triple sets are about 150g heavier than their double counterparts of the same series. 6600 SL triple is about 120g heaver than the 6600 SL double set and about 40g heavier than the vanilla 6600 double set. You could reasonably expect the 6700 triple set to have the same difference in weight when it's released compared to 6700 double i.e. about 100g to 150g heavier.

Ultegra SL Triple Q factor:
The pedal tread on the 6600 triple is the same as the double i.e. 155mm. However the 2 sides are uneven on this bike i.e. the drive side is 3mm to 4mm wider than the non drive side, measured to the center of the seat tube. You can even it out by adjusting your cleats i.e. outward on the drive side by 1mm to 2mm and inward on the non drive side by 1mm to 2mm. This will make those shoes specific to this particular bike however. I'm guessing the uneven tread is specific to the triple design, but it's possible it could be due to the frame/BB shell.


Reccomendation

The 2010 model is supposed to be more compliant than the 2009. It could pay to wait for the 2010 if that's what you're after.

If you buy a 2009 CR1, then expect to change the saddle and maybe the bars if you're buying one of the smaller sizes.

Otherwise, the MS Oppy looks like a great value alternative.

2009 CR1 COMP OVERALL SCORES
Quality 8
May require some immediate upgrading out of the box.
Performance 8
Tiagra isn't DA, but not exactly a low end group set anymore either.
Value for money 9
As long as you don't pay RRP. Only 9 as 2010 models are more reasonably priced than 2009.

2009 CR1 PRO OVERALL SCORES
Quality 8
The same non replaceable hanger including paint chips and average saddle only $1500 more.
Performance 8
Let down by the vanilla Ultegra when the lighter and more attractive SL was available for the same price.
Value for money 5
An extra $400 for the same frame. To be honest this is purely a function of inflated local pricing.

.

[waynohh]

This bike is about 1.5 years old, has about 4000km on it and has been hit by a car. Thought I'd post an update on how things survived. This will be a bunch of mini reviews again.

At about the 1000km mark, I swapped out the triple for a Rival/6700 compact mix. I think the small force required to remove the rear derailleur was enough to put the hanger out of place as I had to try to straighten it when tuning the new derailleur to make it workable. Having said that, it's never changed position since.

Specs since that 1000km changeover:

FRAME: 2009 Scott CR1 Comp 52cm
FORKS: 2009 Scott CR1 Comp
HEADSET: Ritchey Integrated Cartridge
WHEELS: 2009 Mavic Ksyrium Elite Black - 1550g
TIRES: Hutchinson Fusion 2 road tubeless 700 x 23 - 580g
SHIFTERS: 2009 SRAM Rival - 320g
BRAKES: 2009 SRAM Rival - 287g
FRONT DERAILLEUR: 2009 SRAM Rival - 88g
REAR DERAILLEUR: 2009 SRAM Rival - 188g
BB: Hope Ceramic English - 110g
CRANKS: Shimano Ultegra 6750 Compact 50/34 165mm - 685g
CASSETTE: Shimano Ultegra 6700 10 speed 11-28 - 210g
CHAIN: Shimano Dura Ace 7900 - 255g
PEDALS: Shimano A520 - 330g
BARS: FSA K-Force Compact carbon 44mm - 220g
SEAT POST: FSA SLK 0SB carbon 31.6 mm - 235g
SADDLE: Specialized Toupe 143mm - 175g
TAPE: Specialized Phat Wrap
STEM: Scott Road Pro 110mm
COMPUTER: Cat Eye Strada Cadence



Triple/Compact
Now that compact drivetrain technology is mature and you can run 11-28, there's no reason to run triple unless you really really need 30/28 (touring?) and could somehow stay upright at that extremely low speed. I found the close ratios on the 11-23 to be redundant and require too much shifting.

Rival compared Ultegra.

Pros:
Cheaper
Lighter
Shorter, adjustable reach
Better braking

Cons:
Noisier
Non-hollowtech BB
The new Shimano cranks make everything else look like a noodle.

To get around the cons, I ran 6700 cranks and cassette and 7900 chain (with pin). I'm sure shifting is excellent on all current shifters from each brand, I like the small throw of the doubletaps though with small hands.

In the crash the RHS Rival shifter bit the dirt. The lever required some fiddling to get it to pivot properly again and I tried cleaning most of the dirt out. It shifts OK but the braking has a bit of clunk to it now. I need to take a second look at it.

CR1 Frameset
I've done about 600km since the crash and the frame and forks seem undamaged, but there's no way to know for certain unless you take an image of the inside. The LBS contacted some x-ray places but they led them to believe you'd need to use an industrial sized unit which perhaps courier companies or customs may have and would never let you use anyway. The headset is still functioning smoothly, no clicks or creaks. I bought a Park derailleur alignment tool and got it close enough to straight again.

Ksyrium Elite
In the crash the front Ksyrium hit the gutter head on and the rear was hit from the side. The rear was out of true by about 5mm to the side and was toast. The front appeared to still be true, but I haven't trusted to use it again. No spokes are broken. Up until that point, the only maintenance I'd done on the wheels was to oil inside the freehub when it got noisy which was very easy. They never required trueing and I rode them mostly between 85kg and 90kg.

Fulcrum Racing 3 2-Way
Not as good as Ksyriums. As replacements I've purchased Fulcrum Racing 3 2-Way fit (tubeless). They seem to have about the same vertical compliance as the Ksyriums but more lateral flex because of rear spoke design - spokes on the Ksyriums are very wide at the hub. Other issues I had were that it took me 2 hours to get a pair of new tubeless tires on and one of the valve cores was stuck in the valve cylinder. When I finally removed it with pliers, the white seal that's supposed to remain on the core was stuck inside the valve cylinder. The valve is sealing fine, but doesn't inspire confidence.

Shimano WH-R550
They're rubbish. I used a new set of these I keep as spares for about 500km before receiving new wheels. The fact they're like a wet noodle is the least of your problems. The rear wheel is centered a few mm to the non-drive side of your bike. The freehub had so much wobble it's destroyed a chain.

Hope Ceramic BB
I originally wrote "Overpriced". If you throw enough weather at them then the bearings get a bit gritty and you need to remove the dust covers and give then a clean. If it gets really bad, a new set of bearings cost about $80 and that doesn't include the tool you need to remove them from the cups. Compare this to an Ultegra/DA BB which costs about $30 to $40 and you can simply throw away instead of trying to dismantle and clean. Out of laziness I tried a brand new set of 6700 cups I keep as a spare instead of cleaning the Hope set and they clicked and grinded right from the get go. In addition, the crank spindle is near impossible to install and remove. WT? is up with that Shimano? I cleaned up the Hope cups, put them back in, and it's perfectly silent again.

Shimano PD-A520 pedals
These clip in first go 98% of the time, the other times you flip them around with your foot and go straight in. The bearings get freed up after a few hundred km's then they consistently fall into position like SPD-SL's would. They have a low profile under your shoes like SPD-SL. The soles on the SPD road shoes Shimano have are quite stiff, the problem is you'd struggle to find them locally.

Cat Eye Strada Cadence
Still going on original battery. Recently the face started to require some prodding to get it to work. This is a well documented issue on the net. I cleaned the contacts between the computer and the housing with WD40 and it's fine again.

Specialized Phat Wrap
This doesn't have any extra parts underneath the tape and it's awesome.