Circa late 70's Cecil Walker Bike Build

Vintage, yesteryear and retro biking

Circa late 70's Cecil Walker Bike Build

Postby crog » Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:49 pm

Hello all,

I am new to the forum and do not know much about bikes suffice to say i bought a Avanti Mountain Bike as part of a get fit scheme and lost 20 kg's and got hooked on cycling as a means of keeping fit

I have set myself a goal of 1 year to get ready for the Around the Bay in a day Ride ie) in 08 and want to build up a road bike over this time as a bit of a project.

I have been gifted a Cecil Walker Frame and fork made of Reynolds 531 Tubing, quite good nick and I am told a top of the line frame for it's time but the paint has seen better days. I have since found that Cecil Walker is a shop in Melbourne and one the phone they advise they can repaint and sticker the frame for about $235 dollars so I am considering this.

The measurments are I am told:
1. Seat tube measures 59cm
2. Top tube measures 57cm

Weighs in at about 3.0 kg

I have a couple of questions:

1. Will this frame size suit somebody who is just over 6 foot.

2. Will I be able to find components. The frame is stamped with an E and I was told originally had Campologno (??) parts and somebody who knows more tells me it has a bottom bracket that takes 1370 x 24 English and from this I should be able to get a group set.

3. Is this a fools errand??

I would be looking to spend $1500 ish to get going ie) wheels, handlebars, groupsetseat etc but as I have given myself a year or so I may spend some more if need be. I could go and buy a new bike for this price I know but the project appeals but I also want to make sure it is possible before I begin.

Any help, links, etc would be greatly appreciated and ultimately i want to use this bike to commute to work

R's
che
crog
 
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: South East Melbourne

by BNA » Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:42 pm

BNA
 

Postby GaryF » Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:42 pm

Sounds like the frame would suit your size. Yes it is worth doing up. If you're willing to spend in the region of $1500.00 you have a couple of options. First - do you want components that reflect the frame's era or do you want to upgrade?

I suggest sticking to components of the era as they will transfer to your frame without the need to stretch the frame to suit the components. Measure the space between the rear dropouts - I would guess it is about 126mm which would be suitable for a 6 or 7 speed rear hub. The measurement across the hub's locknuts would be 126mm. If it measures 130mm your frame would accept an 8, 9 or 10 speed freewheel - you could fit a later model groupset. ( but my guess is that your frame is built for 6 or 7 speed) It could also be an earlier era frame that measures 120mm between the dropouts.

Components - I think you have 2 choices - Shimano or Campagnolo. Your money should allow for either. I suggest Campagnolo as it was on the bike previously. I'm guessing that your frame is a '70's or '80's era frame which would have had Campagnolo Nuovo Record or Super Record components; both very desirable.

1- buy another bike with the components you want and transfer them onto your frame - probably the cheapest option. You need to look for a bike with a 68mm wide bottom bracket shell as this would be an English Bottom Bracket - the same as your frame (70mm would indicate an Italian bottom bracket - different threads). The rear dropout width would have to match your frame's dropout width.
2 - buy a groupset through a bikeshop or ebay. Ebay is good if you know what you are looking for.

You will need some specialised tools to fit the components but if your frame already has a bottom bracket axle and bearings fitted and the front fork is already fitted to the frame with headset bearings, the job is much easier.

Is it all worth it? Personally, I think a steel frame with period components has a certain style that you can't get today and Cecil Walker in a part of cycling history. Your bike would be worth more if the frame retained it's original paint job. Can you live with the paint job? Walkers would do a good re-paint but it wouldn't be the same decals etc.

If it's too big a job - sell it on ebay but it sounds like you have the right attitude and have the time to do it right.

Hope I have helped - good luck,

Gary.
User avatar
GaryF
 
Posts: 796
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:38 am
Location: Hervey Bay, Queensland.

Postby europa » Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:58 pm

MountGower wrote:G'day Crog

The only problem I can see is the spread between the rear fork ends might not be wide enough to accomodate 10 speed so NOS (new old stock) may or may not be available and if it is might not satisfy your desire for more gears.

Your on the right track with a CRMO bike. They are simply the best and nothing feels as good to ride. I reckon if you can get NOS 8 speed and it fits, go with it, but you might not be satisfied with that.

As for the frame size it sounds about right. It will give you a very upright position with the longer seat tube. Because it has a threaded head set, a quill stem will be able to be lowered quite a bit if needs be, or a longer one purchased, but it's not possible to be sure about that from just reading your height on the forum. You can ride some other bike that you like and take it's measurements, compare them and consider the adjustments that can be made and you should be able to make a good enough decision from that.

Good luck.
I had a good bike ... so I fixed it
User avatar
europa
 
Posts: 7327
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:51 am
Location: southern end of Adelaide - home of hills, fixies and drop bears

Postby crog » Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:11 pm

Guys,

Whilst I note here you guys look to return bikes to original state. I am not overly concerned with trying to secure original bits. I just like the idea of building it up and learning in the process.

The frame has no bottom bracket and headset ( I am assuming you mean bearings etc look worse for wear and need replacing as when I undo the nut and look inside there is a bit of rust and junk hence I like the idea of the sandblast and refinish ( anywher I can get old decals if this would help)

I am really only concerned in getting it up and running. Will todays items fit is one thing and I note is that it has on the frame a position for the derailer wher on my mountain bike it is replaceable will this mean only a certain part will fit. Itand also it has rusted screws with springs where the back wheel goes. I will post a pic at a later date and you can help me out.

Again thanks and if I take it on I wil need pleanty of help

Che
crog
 
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: South East Melbourne

Postby GaryF » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:18 pm

If you just want to get it going, talk to Cecil Walker's when you go to get it repainted, they may have an old groupset. $235 for a re-paint and decals is a pretty good deal. If not, it's not hard to remove the paint with paint stripper, sand it clean and re-paint with spray can (undercoat first though). A flat paint finish is easier to spray and it would look 'funky' (I think that's the official term). Cecil Walker may sell you replacement decals.

A Shimano groupset is the cheaper option and probably easier to source. The bottom bracket bearings and headset bearings are easily sourced. The rear dropout spacing is important and will effect your choice of components. I still think that sourcing parts from another bike is the cheap way to go.
User avatar
GaryF
 
Posts: 796
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:38 am
Location: Hervey Bay, Queensland.

Postby crog » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:57 am

GUys,

Likely to bite the bullet and give it ago. When I can get hold of a camera I will take some pics before and after the paint job

To let you know the space between the rear stays is 120mm as some of mentioned.

Project will be underway shortly

Thanks
crog
 
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: South East Melbourne

Postby MountGower » Sun Aug 12, 2007 2:38 pm

This
Last edited by MountGower on Tue Feb 15, 2011 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MountGower
 

Postby thomas_cho » Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:03 pm

120mm rear spacing is generally for single speeders, track bikes? Although I do have a Sturmey Archer 3 spd hub sitting at home on which the axel is just too short to fit into my 126mm spaced Kenevans frame. Pretty sure it will fit into a 120mm spaced frame.

If you are going to take the frame to Cecilwalker, ask them if they can spread the rear stays to 130mm. Sheldon Brown's website even has a DIY page on cold setting the frame.

This way, and since you are willing to spend $1500, you can get some good modern gear installed on this bike. You might also get cecilwalker to face the BB shell to accept external bearing cups.

Good luck with the bike building, its a lot of fun, and I would advise using the right tool for the right job.
thomas_cho
 
Posts: 1186
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:45 pm
Location: Canberra ACT

Postby GaryF » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:11 pm

Yes - As Thomas-Cho suggests, sort out the rear spacing prior to painting. Walkers will be able to do the job. They will spread the rear forks and stays evenly and re-set the dropouts parallel to each other. You should have an idea of the groupset you want to fit the bike out with.

Looking forward to the photos.
User avatar
GaryF
 
Posts: 796
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:38 am
Location: Hervey Bay, Queensland.

Postby crog » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:05 pm

Hello all

how do I post images ?? I have placed pics of frame in photo bucket but not sure how to load them some sort of syntax using the [img] command and also message about spam or something.

I can PM somebody if they care to assist or can upload for me

Thanks Che
crog
 
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: South East Melbourne

Postby mikesbytes » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:15 pm

You are not permitted to post pictures until you have done ten posts.

The FAQ forum explains how to display pictures.
A helmet saved my life
User avatar
mikesbytes
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 14785
Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:42 pm
Location: Tempe, Sydney

Postby europa » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:23 pm

crog wrote:I can PM somebody if they care to assist or can upload for me

Thanks Che


Use Photobucket to reduce the size of the pictures to their 'message board' size - 640 x 480 (click edit, then resize). Then PM the links to me and I'll post them for you. Reduce them first though :wink:

Richard
I had a good bike ... so I fixed it
User avatar
europa
 
Posts: 7327
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:51 am
Location: southern end of Adelaide - home of hills, fixies and drop bears

Postby europa » Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:37 am

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

Crog's Cecil Walker. Nice project :D

Common mate, tell us about the pics :wink:

Richard
I had a good bike ... so I fixed it
User avatar
europa
 
Posts: 7327
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:51 am
Location: southern end of Adelaide - home of hills, fixies and drop bears

Postby crog » Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:31 pm

Not much to say, some of you may have seen it trawling Ebay. It was an early fathers day gift and pics are from ebay post and is currently in transit.

Wife paid $250 for it so I hope I haven't been ripped off, but on this note at Cecil Walker they build custom frames out of Reynolds 531 tubing for about $1200 & supposably haden lugs are a bonus and date it late 70's early 80's,

It is authentic and has a serial number and E stamped on the base of the bottom bracket and Cecil said they should be able to tell me when it was actually made so it can be accurately dated and will look at there records when I bring it in.

So obviously next step is off Cecil Walker for a paint restore job $235 ish for basic paint and decal and also to look at widening the rear stays as suggested earlier to fit more modern bits if I can't find suitable but as it has a campagnolo sticker I suppose thisis the path i must tread

This is where I am going to fall over and will be looking for help. As I said a year project so it will next be painted when you next see it

Che
crog
 
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: South East Melbourne

Postby thomas_cho » Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:26 pm

Thats a nice frame. My Reynolds 753 Kenevans frame has even more paint chips than yours.

There is no reason why you need to go Campag. Frames are not built to be Campag or Shimano specific.

You could even go SRAM.
thomas_cho
 
Posts: 1186
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 12:45 pm
Location: Canberra ACT

Postby GaryF » Mon Aug 13, 2007 8:41 pm

I reckon I've seen that frame in the flesh before. Are you sure it needs a repaint? It looks pretty good in the photo's - but they are a little blurry.

Nice frame.
User avatar
GaryF
 
Posts: 796
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:38 am
Location: Hervey Bay, Queensland.

Postby crog » Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:30 pm

Thanks you guys for your help, not knowing much about bike suffice to say I was looking for others thoughts on this frame before we bought it as a basis for my project and motivation to keep training etc for next years ride around the bay, my wife was going to allow me to spendd $2000 on something new but I think this has more appeal efven if it costs me a bit more over the duration.

GaryF, the guy I bought it from lives in Ormond (Ken) and if you are in Melbourne you may have seen him, he told me he upgraded as being 5.8 the frame was a little big and nothing was wrong with it so I took him at his word although he has not seen the cash yet.

I am picking up weekend and will post a better pic to reflect paint job and decide which way to go.

I did see a post on this web site that paconi?? build the CW frames so I may go to him direct may save a few dollars and get his decals on it (Is this Kosher??)

Once recieved and all measurements known look for questions on components but I note you can get ITM stems, bars and other bits and pieces resonably cheap on ebay.

Ultimately I want it to look like it just left the show room so I will likely try to get NOS to reflect the bikes style and then an upto date groups set as I will have the stays reset to either 126 or 130mm

Shimano or Campognolo well that is another debate I suppose the merits of either I am yet to know.

Che



Again appreciate the help and will see you on the road oneday.
crog
 
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: South East Melbourne

Postby GaryF » Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:12 pm

I'm not sure if Paconi built frames for Walker's but he is a respected builder. If he did build the frame, there is no reason why you couldn't re-badge it. Cecil Walker is part of Victorian cycling history though where Paconi is more or less a new kid on the block.

I have seen some of the brilliant paint jobs that come out of Paconi's - a good choice of painter.

The frame I saw was in Geelong. If it's not the same frame then it's a twin.

ITM do make great products but if you want the older parts such as a quill stem - they are quite rare on ebay. I've been looking for a particular ITM quill stem for the past 8 months.

I'm impressed with the long pointed lugs - it's a true 70's classic frame.
User avatar
GaryF
 
Posts: 796
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:38 am
Location: Hervey Bay, Queensland.

Postby crog » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:15 pm

Hi all Update for those interested.

Frame/fork went to Paconi today. Rear stays are getting widend to 130, a second set of water bottle bosses added, new bracket for updated brake fixed to frame and required cable bosses.

Should come back vintage cherry red with white detailing of lugs and original cecil walker stickers.

Frame was date to 78.

The above is costing of the order of $300 and I will post pics in about 3 weeks

Now to scour Ebay for a stem handle bars and seatpost. I am hoping for Campy NOS if I can get hold of it but most appears to go for a quite a bit.

Cost to date : Frame $250
Paint and fix frame $330

Somehow I think I am going to blow the $2000 budget but we may be lucky
crog
 
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: South East Melbourne

Postby LuckyPierre » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:48 pm

Damn, it looks like Enzo will have some competition!
I'm putting 9-speed Record gear (and Vento's) on a Ferrari red Hillbrick frame. Only a late 80's aero post to go - I got Campag pedals last week :).
Litespeed Classic - 3Al/2.5V titanium tube set, Record 9-speed groupset, Open Corsa Evo CX
Alchemy Diablo - Columbus Zonal tubing, Ultegra 9-speed groupset, UltraGatorskins
Gitane Rocks T1 - U6 tubing, Deore/XT groupset, CrossMarks
User avatar
LuckyPierre
 
Posts: 1432
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:37 pm
Location: Canberra, ACT

Postby MichaelB » Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:20 am

Here is what looks like a NOS Cecil Walker Track bike on eBay

Cecil Walker Track Bike - 53cm
User avatar
MichaelB
 
Posts: 6824
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:29 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Postby GaryF » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:11 pm

MichaelB wrote:Here is what looks like a NOS Cecil Walker Track bike on eBay

Cecil Walker Track Bike - 53cm


Very Nice Track Bike - everything's there.
User avatar
GaryF
 
Posts: 796
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:38 am
Location: Hervey Bay, Queensland.

Postby MichaelB » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:36 pm

GaryF wrote:
MichaelB wrote:Here is what looks like a NOS Cecil Walker Track bike on eBay

Cecil Walker Track Bike - 53cm


Very Nice Track Bike - everything's there.


Including the $$$$$ signs
User avatar
MichaelB
 
Posts: 6824
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 8:29 am
Location: Adelaide, South Australia

Postby crog » Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:11 pm

I hope mine comes out just as well, although i am going the roadbike option and likely the grupset and wheels will be new but the rest i will try to be original to the idea.


U r Right about the money I am bidding on an original Campagnolo seat post bolt in the us ebay and i think it is going to cost me of the order of $25.

Couple of weeks away and pacconi restoration pics will be posted. It was interesting to note i could not see a serial number on the bottom bracket where my frame has one but otherwise very similar campagnolo drop outs and headset etc.
crog
 
Posts: 660
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:31 pm
Location: South East Melbourne

Postby LuckyPierre » Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:21 pm

crog wrote: I am bidding on an original Campagnolo seat post bolt in the us ebay and i think it is going to cost me of the order of $25.

It's always the little details that add to the cost. :? I've got some resin cable stops, but I want alloy ones - like the seat post bolt, they're pretty hard to come by.
Litespeed Classic - 3Al/2.5V titanium tube set, Record 9-speed groupset, Open Corsa Evo CX
Alchemy Diablo - Columbus Zonal tubing, Ultegra 9-speed groupset, UltraGatorskins
Gitane Rocks T1 - U6 tubing, Deore/XT groupset, CrossMarks
User avatar
LuckyPierre
 
Posts: 1432
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:37 pm
Location: Canberra, ACT

Next

Return to Retro biking

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Sharkey



Popular Bike Shops
Torpedo 7 Torpedo7 AU
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ebay Ebay AU

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers
> BNA Cycling Kit