Circa late 70's Cecil Walker Bike Build
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Circa late 70's Cecil Walker Bike Build
Postby crog » Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:49 pm
I am new to the forum and do not know much about bikes suffice to say i bought a Avanti Mountain Bike as part of a get fit scheme and lost 20 kg's and got hooked on cycling as a means of keeping fit
I have set myself a goal of 1 year to get ready for the Around the Bay in a day Ride ie) in 08 and want to build up a road bike over this time as a bit of a project.
I have been gifted a Cecil Walker Frame and fork made of Reynolds 531 Tubing, quite good nick and I am told a top of the line frame for it's time but the paint has seen better days. I have since found that Cecil Walker is a shop in Melbourne and one the phone they advise they can repaint and sticker the frame for about $235 dollars so I am considering this.
The measurments are I am told:
1. Seat tube measures 59cm
2. Top tube measures 57cm
Weighs in at about 3.0 kg
I have a couple of questions:
1. Will this frame size suit somebody who is just over 6 foot.
2. Will I be able to find components. The frame is stamped with an E and I was told originally had Campologno (??) parts and somebody who knows more tells me it has a bottom bracket that takes 1370 x 24 English and from this I should be able to get a group set.
3. Is this a fools errand??
I would be looking to spend $1500 ish to get going ie) wheels, handlebars, groupsetseat etc but as I have given myself a year or so I may spend some more if need be. I could go and buy a new bike for this price I know but the project appeals but I also want to make sure it is possible before I begin.
Any help, links, etc would be greatly appreciated and ultimately i want to use this bike to commute to work
R's
che
- GaryF
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Postby GaryF » Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:42 pm
I suggest sticking to components of the era as they will transfer to your frame without the need to stretch the frame to suit the components. Measure the space between the rear dropouts - I would guess it is about 126mm which would be suitable for a 6 or 7 speed rear hub. The measurement across the hub's locknuts would be 126mm. If it measures 130mm your frame would accept an 8, 9 or 10 speed freewheel - you could fit a later model groupset. ( but my guess is that your frame is built for 6 or 7 speed) It could also be an earlier era frame that measures 120mm between the dropouts.
Components - I think you have 2 choices - Shimano or Campagnolo. Your money should allow for either. I suggest Campagnolo as it was on the bike previously. I'm guessing that your frame is a '70's or '80's era frame which would have had Campagnolo Nuovo Record or Super Record components; both very desirable.
1- buy another bike with the components you want and transfer them onto your frame - probably the cheapest option. You need to look for a bike with a 68mm wide bottom bracket shell as this would be an English Bottom Bracket - the same as your frame (70mm would indicate an Italian bottom bracket - different threads). The rear dropout width would have to match your frame's dropout width.
2 - buy a groupset through a bikeshop or ebay. Ebay is good if you know what you are looking for.
You will need some specialised tools to fit the components but if your frame already has a bottom bracket axle and bearings fitted and the front fork is already fitted to the frame with headset bearings, the job is much easier.
Is it all worth it? Personally, I think a steel frame with period components has a certain style that you can't get today and Cecil Walker in a part of cycling history. Your bike would be worth more if the frame retained it's original paint job. Can you live with the paint job? Walkers would do a good re-paint but it wouldn't be the same decals etc.
If it's too big a job - sell it on ebay but it sounds like you have the right attitude and have the time to do it right.
Hope I have helped - good luck,
Gary.
- europa
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Postby europa » Fri Aug 10, 2007 9:58 pm
MountGower wrote:G'day Crog
The only problem I can see is the spread between the rear fork ends might not be wide enough to accomodate 10 speed so NOS (new old stock) may or may not be available and if it is might not satisfy your desire for more gears.
Your on the right track with a CRMO bike. They are simply the best and nothing feels as good to ride. I reckon if you can get NOS 8 speed and it fits, go with it, but you might not be satisfied with that.
As for the frame size it sounds about right. It will give you a very upright position with the longer seat tube. Because it has a threaded head set, a quill stem will be able to be lowered quite a bit if needs be, or a longer one purchased, but it's not possible to be sure about that from just reading your height on the forum. You can ride some other bike that you like and take it's measurements, compare them and consider the adjustments that can be made and you should be able to make a good enough decision from that.
Good luck.
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Postby crog » Fri Aug 10, 2007 10:11 pm
Whilst I note here you guys look to return bikes to original state. I am not overly concerned with trying to secure original bits. I just like the idea of building it up and learning in the process.
The frame has no bottom bracket and headset ( I am assuming you mean bearings etc look worse for wear and need replacing as when I undo the nut and look inside there is a bit of rust and junk hence I like the idea of the sandblast and refinish ( anywher I can get old decals if this would help)
I am really only concerned in getting it up and running. Will todays items fit is one thing and I note is that it has on the frame a position for the derailer wher on my mountain bike it is replaceable will this mean only a certain part will fit. Itand also it has rusted screws with springs where the back wheel goes. I will post a pic at a later date and you can help me out.
Again thanks and if I take it on I wil need pleanty of help
Che
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Postby GaryF » Fri Aug 10, 2007 11:18 pm
A Shimano groupset is the cheaper option and probably easier to source. The bottom bracket bearings and headset bearings are easily sourced. The rear dropout spacing is important and will effect your choice of components. I still think that sourcing parts from another bike is the cheap way to go.
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Postby thomas_cho » Sun Aug 12, 2007 4:03 pm
If you are going to take the frame to Cecilwalker, ask them if they can spread the rear stays to 130mm. Sheldon Brown's website even has a DIY page on cold setting the frame.
This way, and since you are willing to spend $1500, you can get some good modern gear installed on this bike. You might also get cecilwalker to face the BB shell to accept external bearing cups.
Good luck with the bike building, its a lot of fun, and I would advise using the right tool for the right job.
- GaryF
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Postby GaryF » Sun Aug 12, 2007 9:11 pm
Looking forward to the photos.
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Postby crog » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:05 pm
how do I post images ?? I have placed pics of frame in photo bucket but not sure how to load them some sort of syntax using the [img] command and also message about spam or something.
I can PM somebody if they care to assist or can upload for me
Thanks Che
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Postby mikesbytes » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:15 pm
The FAQ forum explains how to display pictures.
- europa
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Postby europa » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:23 pm
Use Photobucket to reduce the size of the pictures to their 'message board' size - 640 x 480 (click edit, then resize). Then PM the links to me and I'll post them for you. Reduce them first thoughcrog wrote:I can PM somebody if they care to assist or can upload for me
Thanks Che
Richard
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Postby crog » Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:31 pm
Wife paid $250 for it so I hope I haven't been ripped off, but on this note at Cecil Walker they build custom frames out of Reynolds 531 tubing for about $1200 & supposably haden lugs are a bonus and date it late 70's early 80's,
It is authentic and has a serial number and E stamped on the base of the bottom bracket and Cecil said they should be able to tell me when it was actually made so it can be accurately dated and will look at there records when I bring it in.
So obviously next step is off Cecil Walker for a paint restore job $235 ish for basic paint and decal and also to look at widening the rear stays as suggested earlier to fit more modern bits if I can't find suitable but as it has a campagnolo sticker I suppose thisis the path i must tread
This is where I am going to fall over and will be looking for help. As I said a year project so it will next be painted when you next see it
Che
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Postby thomas_cho » Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:26 pm
There is no reason why you need to go Campag. Frames are not built to be Campag or Shimano specific.
You could even go SRAM.
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Postby crog » Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:30 pm
GaryF, the guy I bought it from lives in Ormond (Ken) and if you are in Melbourne you may have seen him, he told me he upgraded as being 5.8 the frame was a little big and nothing was wrong with it so I took him at his word although he has not seen the cash yet.
I am picking up weekend and will post a better pic to reflect paint job and decide which way to go.
I did see a post on this web site that paconi?? build the CW frames so I may go to him direct may save a few dollars and get his decals on it (Is this Kosher??)
Once recieved and all measurements known look for questions on components but I note you can get ITM stems, bars and other bits and pieces resonably cheap on ebay.
Ultimately I want it to look like it just left the show room so I will likely try to get NOS to reflect the bikes style and then an upto date groups set as I will have the stays reset to either 126 or 130mm
Shimano or Campognolo well that is another debate I suppose the merits of either I am yet to know.
Che
Again appreciate the help and will see you on the road oneday.
- GaryF
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Postby GaryF » Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:12 pm
I have seen some of the brilliant paint jobs that come out of Paconi's - a good choice of painter.
The frame I saw was in Geelong. If it's not the same frame then it's a twin.
ITM do make great products but if you want the older parts such as a quill stem - they are quite rare on ebay. I've been looking for a particular ITM quill stem for the past 8 months.
I'm impressed with the long pointed lugs - it's a true 70's classic frame.
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Postby crog » Tue Aug 21, 2007 6:15 pm
Frame/fork went to Paconi today. Rear stays are getting widend to 130, a second set of water bottle bosses added, new bracket for updated brake fixed to frame and required cable bosses.
Should come back vintage cherry red with white detailing of lugs and original cecil walker stickers.
Frame was date to 78.
The above is costing of the order of $300 and I will post pics in about 3 weeks
Now to scour Ebay for a stem handle bars and seatpost. I am hoping for Campy NOS if I can get hold of it but most appears to go for a quite a bit.
Cost to date : Frame $250
Paint and fix frame $330
Somehow I think I am going to blow the $2000 budget but we may be lucky
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Postby LuckyPierre » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:48 pm
I'm putting 9-speed Record gear (and Vento's) on a Ferrari red Hillbrick frame. Only a late 80's aero post to go - I got Campag pedals last week .
Alchemy Diablo - Columbus Zonal tubing, Ultegra 9-speed groupset, UltraGatorskins
Gitane Rocks T1 - U6 tubing, Deore/XT groupset, CrossMarks
- MichaelB
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- GaryF
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Postby GaryF » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:11 pm
Very Nice Track Bike - everything's there.MichaelB wrote:Here is what looks like a NOS Cecil Walker Track bike on eBay
Cecil Walker Track Bike - 53cm
- MichaelB
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Postby MichaelB » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:36 pm
Including the $$$$$ signsGaryF wrote:Very Nice Track Bike - everything's there.MichaelB wrote:Here is what looks like a NOS Cecil Walker Track bike on eBay
Cecil Walker Track Bike - 53cm
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Postby crog » Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:11 pm
U r Right about the money I am bidding on an original Campagnolo seat post bolt in the us ebay and i think it is going to cost me of the order of $25.
Couple of weeks away and pacconi restoration pics will be posted. It was interesting to note i could not see a serial number on the bottom bracket where my frame has one but otherwise very similar campagnolo drop outs and headset etc.
- LuckyPierre
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Postby LuckyPierre » Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:21 pm
It's always the little details that add to the cost. I've got some resin cable stops, but I want alloy ones - like the seat post bolt, they're pretty hard to come by.crog wrote: I am bidding on an original Campagnolo seat post bolt in the us ebay and i think it is going to cost me of the order of $25.
Alchemy Diablo - Columbus Zonal tubing, Ultegra 9-speed groupset, UltraGatorskins
Gitane Rocks T1 - U6 tubing, Deore/XT groupset, CrossMarks
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