Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby uphillbattle » Tue Oct 27, 2009 7:41 pm
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby SLH » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:00 pm
Ben85 wrote:Slh, haha yeh, kids love to ride to school, but 10-12 is very young to be commuting by themselves to school. Just my opinion.
I should of said high school kids have more road sense, which they do, the amount of teens racing and using road everyday is growing very quickly.
Champion driver, where you pull that from, very strange. Since off the bike I drive to the pool every morning and see alot of cyclist doing crazy things, cutting of cars etc. When i ride I dont see this as much. There are bad on both sides, i never said there weren't.
What stats & theories am I pulling out of nowhere?
.You seem very angry, I forgot teachers are experts in every thing, a breed of their own
These forums are so funny, every ones a hero behind the keyboard. I'm not on here to fight, just stat my opinion
We should go for a ride 1 day
High school kids are bigger risk takers than Primary School kids. So I''m not sure where you got this fact from.I should of said high school kids have more road sense, which they do.
I'm not angry, I just don't like to read made up evidence. And as for teachers knowing everything, that's a very interesting observation that says a lot about your ability to see a different point of view. As I said, there are good and bad in both riders and drivers, These people make the roads unsafe.You seem very angry, I forgot teachers are experts in every thing, a breed of their own
I said you were a "champion of the driver". not a champion driver. It means you seem to be only seeing it from one point of view, which is strange for a cyclist to be so anti riders. I'm also no hero behind a keyboard for having a point of view and knowing how to put forward an argument. Aren't you doing the same thing?
As for going for a ride....don't think you'd like it when I turned up in some team clothing.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby Mulger bill » Tue Oct 27, 2009 9:57 pm
Interesting way of demonstrating how the mind only sees what it wants to. At least you recognise and acknowledge that every tribe has its morons.Ben85 wrote:Since off the bike I drive to the pool every morning and see alot of cyclist doing crazy things, cutting of cars etc. When i ride I dont see this as much. There are bad on both sides, i never said there weren't.
I had a rider run a stop sign across me bows in Adderley St AM today, three seconds after a white van did the same. Dunno what that proves, I just wanted to vent.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby Ben85 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:13 am
I'm just expressing from my expierences of riding with all sorts of people, I use to ride my recovery sessions with the u19/ u17/u15 group accompanied by a few adults. This was a very safe/ aware group. 90% on them dont have a car license.
The other rides are mega bike etc. These are very scary rides as people do stupid things, trying to overtake, not braking smoothly causing crashes. I only rode 2 of them and had 2 bad expierences. There are probabaly some good riders in these groups, but I like my skin.
The older generation don't like to be told that they are a bad rider/driver. The younger ones are willing to listen to their peers.
From my expierences.
Enjoy the weather
PS. a rider rode into the back of a bus this morning on Anzacs Say What?
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby alex » Wed Oct 28, 2009 12:17 pm
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby rustychisel » Wed Oct 28, 2009 1:39 pm
Consider us all as groups who use the roads; 99% of all car drivers are capable and courteous, and they don't want to get into a bingle which will delay their trip. The other 1% are f**knuckles who would be that way whether they were driving a tonka toy in the playground or a bus for Torrens Transport.
It may be that 99% of all cyclists are capable and courteous too, but frankly it seems to me the percentage is a fair bit lower than that, there's some shocking behavior on the roads, shown by all. The most dangerous might well be students (often Asian, as it happens) who doodle along on Kmart mountain bikes (without lights!!) at 10kmh on Magill and Portrush Roads. Their issues are of road safety and positioning, mostly. However, we're all road users.
They're a far cry from those labelled 'lycra louts', but we all still have to share the roads together, along with the potentially lethal scooters (who now use cycle lanes with impunity) and a few too many muppets who happily text message whilst driving. This, in my view, will be the most dangerous challenge faced by cyclists - all cyclists - in the forseeable future.
Amongst cyclists the biggest problem seems among commuters (those who cycle to work more than 2~3 days a week) who simply jump red lights, swing across traffic lanes, ride through pedestrian crossings, and seem to care little for the consequences.
I'll make it simple as an idea: I don't call all motorists f**kwits and I don't expect to be called one either, just because I'm a cyclist. I obey the road rules, I never jump red lights etc, and I expect that you might do the same as I. When you see someone breaking the rules call them on it. Every time. Let them know it's rubbish; car drivers and cyclists alike. I have a friend who calls out to drivers on their mobile phones and faces them down until they hang up. Each one, every time. Good on him. If you see someone on a bike jump a red light call them on it. Every time.
Remember, we're not just playing in the traffic, WE ARE THE TRAFFIC. Good luck out there.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby gdt » Wed Oct 28, 2009 4:02 pm
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/stor ... 01,00.html
As usual, the comments show the understanding and consideration for which Adelaide motorists are well known.Cycle registration is no solution
Amy Noonan
The State Government and Bicycle SA have rejected calls for the registration of bikes. More than 400 people joined the debate on AdelaideNow, with many calling for compulsory registration for bikes, similar to vehicle registration. "All bikes should have a registered ID so dangerous riding can be reported as with dangerous driving," Sarah of Adelaide wrote.
Police, meanwhile, confirmed that cyclists caught breaking road rules or riding under the influence of alcohol and drugs could be fined and lose up to six demerit points.
Other readers pointed out that it costs more than just the proceeds from car registration to maintain the road networks. "Car rego primarily does not fund the roads; we pay tax/council rates, the tax/rates revenue fund the road and infrastructure we use, therefore all payers have a right to use the roads and more importantly, all have the right to be safe whilst using them," Erik of Adelaide wrote.
A spokesman for Transport Minister Patrick Conlon said there was no bike registration in Australia. "The administration costs of introducing and operating a registration scheme for cyclists would far outweigh the benefits and the Government is not considering such a scheme," the spokesman said.
Bicycle SA chief executive Christian Haag said, if anything, cyclists should get a rebate. "Why should a cyclist pay for registration or have another barrier put up to stop them from riding when they're actually saving the economy?" he said. "Nationally the current rate of cycling is saving $150 million in health costs, $64 million in congestion costs and $10 million in greenhouse emission costs."
Mr Conlon said more than 100km of new bike lanes and paths would be added this financial year. New lanes are planned for Port Rd, Portrush Rd, Diagonal Rd, Henley Beach Rd, Golden Way, Marion Rd and Victoria Square.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby brauluver » Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:49 pm
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby Ben85 » Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:15 pm
Just your last paragraph, I totally agree, but its one of those things that everyone is an expert and cant be told. Some old bloke, doesnt like being told to keep left by a bunch of kids coming through faster or told he should of given way to a car.
Same with motorist, everyones a great driver, never make a mistake
In racing its a bit different, cause there is a large number hassling a few riders on bike skill, so they get the point.
I wish bike sa left the can shut, it will cool over in a few weeks.
Good to see so many bike riders on the road today sticking it to the hand full of knob motorist.
Im happy with the amount of knobs who whinged on Adelaidenow, only 500 or so out of 1,600,000 South Aussies. Which half where cyclist.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby Mulger bill » Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:30 am
One worthwhile statement in that lot and it's a biggy. The Govt gets it, now for Joe Bloggs.gdt wrote:Looks like The Advertiser knows when it's on a winner. I welcome our new slow-news-day overlords, and look forward to cycling joining the traditional slow news day topics of single mums having more babies for increased welfare payments, the Gang of 49, euthanasia, ... (not).
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/stor ... 01,00.htmlAs usual, the comments show the understanding and consideration for which Adelaide motorists are well known.Cycle registration is no solution
Amy Noonan
The State Government and Bicycle SA have rejected calls for the registration of bikes. More than 400 people joined the debate on AdelaideNow, with many calling for compulsory registration for bikes, similar to vehicle registration. "All bikes should have a registered ID so dangerous riding can be reported as with dangerous driving," Sarah of Adelaide wrote.
Police, meanwhile, confirmed that cyclists caught breaking road rules or riding under the influence of alcohol and drugs could be fined and lose up to six demerit points.
Other readers pointed out that it costs more than just the proceeds from car registration to maintain the road networks. "Car rego primarily does not fund the roads; we pay tax/council rates, the tax/rates revenue fund the road and infrastructure we use, therefore all payers have a right to use the roads and more importantly, all have the right to be safe whilst using them," Erik of Adelaide wrote.
A spokesman for Transport Minister Patrick Conlon said there was no bike registration in Australia. "The administration costs of introducing and operating a registration scheme for cyclists would far outweigh the benefits and the Government is not considering such a scheme," the spokesman said.
Bicycle SA chief executive Christian Haag said, if anything, cyclists should get a rebate. "Why should a cyclist pay for registration or have another barrier put up to stop them from riding when they're actually saving the economy?" he said. "Nationally the current rate of cycling is saving $150 million in health costs, $64 million in congestion costs and $10 million in greenhouse emission costs."
Mr Conlon said more than 100km of new bike lanes and paths would be added this financial year. New lanes are planned for Port Rd, Portrush Rd, Diagonal Rd, Henley Beach Rd, Golden Way, Marion Rd and Victoria Square.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby Amplifier » Tue Nov 03, 2009 8:46 am
Due to the projected traffic volumes for South Australia over the next 10 years im suprised the government doesnt want to get more people riding. Its not as if the government makes money from drivers anyway the taxes and fees barely cover road maintenance let alone construction of new roads.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby adelaidecyclist » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:51 pm
..and my parents always told me stories of them riding to and from school with their friends, with no parents when they were in primary school..Ben85 wrote:Slh, haha yeh, kids love to ride to school, but 10-12 is very young to be commuting by themselves to school. Just my opinion.
Better just do what all the other sheep do and drop them off our the front of school in mum's 4x4 then.
BikeSA must have their facts wrong. I'm a cyclist and I don't want the speed limit to be 40km/h. What we need are more green corridors. Every train track/tram line/busway in Adelaide should have a path next to it, or at least the effort made to do so. This will greatly alleviate the problem. Think of them as arterial roads for cyclists. From there we can use the backstreets.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby gdt » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:04 am
For the record, BikeSA has been promoting that to the government for a few years now. I've lived in cities with this sort of cycle path. They're a fine idea and work well. The major difficulty is personal safety. In that sense a bike path in full view of passing motorists has an attraction.adelaidecyclist wrote:Every train track/tram line/busway in Adelaide should have a path next to it...
IMHO there's no one solution to car/cycle interaction. Simply because there isn't just one sort of cyclist.
I expect we'll see 40Km/h speed limits as a result of the current underspending on cycling infrastructure. Imagine what happens when we have a decent petrol price crunch (say $2 in a year). The government will be caught with its pants down and will need to make cycling a non-threatening alternative for commuters, and will need to do that rather quickly. It will only have two responses that don't have a huge engineering lead time: to run around with white paint creating more "bike lanes" and to drop the speed limit in the CBD and suburbs.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby m@ » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:17 am
I envy your (relative) optimism - the only change I foresee due to rising oil costs is a phasing-out of petrol cars and replacement with coal (electric) powered cars with very little difference to current vehicle design, road congestion, CO2 emissions etc... and a general rise in the cost of living due to freight costs and carbon emissions trading. Colour me cynical...gdt wrote:For the record, BikeSA has been promoting that to the government for a few years now. I've lived in cities with this sort of cycle path. They're a fine idea and work well. The major difficulty is personal safety. In that sense a bike path in full view of passing motorists has an attraction.adelaidecyclist wrote:Every train track/tram line/busway in Adelaide should have a path next to it...
IMHO there's no one solution to car/cycle interaction. Simply because there isn't just one sort of cyclist.
I expect we'll see 40Km/h speed limits as a result of the current underspending on cycling infrastructure. Imagine what happens when we have a decent petrol price crunch (say $2 in a year). The government will be caught with its pants down and will need to make cycling a non-threatening alternative for commuters, and will need to do that rather quickly. It will only have two responses that don't have a huge engineering lead time: to run around with white paint creating more "bike lanes" and to drop the speed limit in the CBD and suburbs.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby gdt » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:49 am
I'm not that optimistic, I've got to say.m@ wrote:I envy your (relative) optimism...
Cars are very convenient, and it's quite possible that people will spend a large amount of money to keep using them. But here's the thing -- some proportion of car drivers will substitute cycling for some trips. If even 10% of people substitute for other forms of transport then it will overwhelm the alternatives, so low is today's use of non-car personal transport.
Most of those alternatives already have a long lead time, but we're already seeing capacity constraints (and some which might take decades to correct). You can't buy a tram for love or money at the moment. There's such a crunch on rail that it's economic for historical railway societies to return their diesel-electric locomotives back into service. Congestion at Town Hall station in Sydney threatens most expansion alternatives for Sydney passenger rail. Buses seem attractive, but there's only so many bus stops you can fit into a CBD street before it dies --- George St in Sydney and Grenfell St in Adelaide will be at that capacity in a few years.
Cycling offers an amelioration of the issue, but isn't a solution by any stretch because our cities and workplaces are designed for easy long-distance travel. Not enough people are going to cycle daily from outer to inner Sydney or from southern to northern Adelaide to be a solution. But as a partial solution it is cheap and available with a much lower lead time than other transport alternatives.
So yeah, when governments start taking strong measures to promote cycling it will be partly reflective of just how desperate a circumstance has been caused by their overinvestment in cars and their underinvestment in metro rail and trams. I'm not sure that's "optimistic"
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby Ben85 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:28 am
haha very good, my parents also rode to school everyday back in the 50s. Half the population, Adeliade was mostly paddock. So there wasnt much risk of being hit by a car/bus riding down a busy road.adelaidecyclist wrote:..and my parents always told me stories of them riding to and from school with their friends, with no parents when they were in primary school..Ben85 wrote:Slh, haha yeh, kids love to ride to school, but 10-12 is very young to be commuting by themselves to school. Just my opinion.
Better just do what all the other sheep do and drop them off our the front of school in mum's 4x4 then. .
Sure kids can ride to school, if they live 5 minutes away and ride on the footpath. The way they where discussing it was 10yo kids riding a bmx along south road to school.
I'm sick of the wife telling me stories of kids coming in to work being involved in bike accidents.
Nothing wrong with mums 4x4 and ive never seen a sheep driving one
Strange
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby adelaidecyclist » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:41 am
Personal safety is a genuine concern, however I ride along a fair section of train track (from Mawson Lakes to Edinburgh) regularly, through some "average" areas, and haven't had any trouble to date. It may be one of those "suck it up" situations until more people start riding.gdt wrote:For the record, BikeSA has been promoting that to the government for a few years now. I've lived in cities with this sort of cycle path. They're a fine idea and work well. The major difficulty is personal safety. In that sense a bike path in full view of passing motorists has an attraction.
It's kind of a catch 22 - build bike paths in these areas and it will be a personal risk until more people ride, but people won't start riding until the paths are made and they can ride away from the cars.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby Cycotic » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:15 pm
And then there's the problem of childhood obesity. Maybe there's a link?
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby thommo09 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:50 pm
There might not be anything wrong with Mum's 4WD for the kids in the back, but what about all the other road users?! IMHO the most dangerous time to be on the roads in between 3:00 and 4:00pm when school finishes. I'm not having a go at Mum's in 4WD's for their driving skills, but let's be honest, Mum driving her 4WD around that time often has a lot more on her mind than just driving safelyBen85 wrote:Nothing wrong with mums 4x4 and ive never seen a sheep driving one
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby SLH » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:29 pm
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby Ben85 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:43 am
Whats your problem? How old are you? A school teacher that uses forums to give the younger generation a hard time. Real mature.SLH wrote:Ben85, perhaps you should call Bob Francis and discuss your concerns. I'm sure you'll get along just fine.
I guess we have different opinions, no need to be a smart arse.
A kid I went to school with was paralysed, when hit by a car that ran a pesdestrian crossing on his way to school. So I worry when hearing kids so young putting there lifes at such risk.
Thommo, good point. The guy who hit my mate was a businessman on his phone. So any time of the day is dangerous.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby SLH » Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:17 pm
First of all, it doesn't matter how old I am or that I'm a smart arse. I disagree with you because you seem to make up stuff related to stats based solely on opinion and that's dangerous. I agree that kids need to be careful when riding their bikes, but earlier you suggested that all kids shouldn't be allowed to ride more than 5 minutes to school based on one awful example of a dangerous act. If we live our lives in fear that something bad will happen, where does any enjoyment in life come from?Ben85 wrote:Whats your problem? How old are you? A school teacher that uses forums to give the younger generation a hard time. Real mature.SLH wrote:Ben85, perhaps you should call Bob Francis and discuss your concerns. I'm sure you'll get along just fine.
I guess we have different opinions, no need to be a smart arse.
A kid I went to school with was paralysed, when hit by a car that ran a pesdestrian crossing on his way to school. So I worry when hearing kids so young putting there lifes at such risk.
Thommo, good point. The guy who hit my mate was a businessman on his phone. So any time of the day is dangerous.
Perhaps I do look for your posts, but it was you who suggested all riders who wear anything remotely like a team kit are !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! and cafe warriors. Maybe I should let it go, but I found it incredibly distasteful to pigeon hole so many people out there who enjoy riding for the sake of it.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby Ben85 » Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:20 pm
I don't see any 10yo kids riding down south/goodwood/anzacs on school mornings ever. Because most parents care for there children and wouldn't put there kids in such a dangerous position. I could imagine a 10yo stuck on side of the road with a puncture, no phone and 10km between home and school. Thats safe with the amount of perverts in the world today or a dole bludger on way to pub being over the limit. Kids have after school to ride and have fun in a safe enviroment.
Yes I still stand by, anyone that wears a full team kit who arent in the team are !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !!. They are millions of plain kits and club kits you can buy. Stop trying to be something ya not. You cant wear a team kit in a CSA race unless your in the team. I saw team cervelo today, didn't relise they were in Adelaide
You enjoy ya cycling and Il catch ya at the crits, I dont know your name though???
Youll find me to be a good bloke, just have a strong opinion
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby brauluver » Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:28 pm
Are you sure you aren't Big Bob, with sensationalist generalisations like that you sound like him?Ben85 wrote: I don't see any 10yo kids riding down south/goodwood/anzacs on school mornings ever. Because most parents care for there children and wouldn't put there kids in such a dangerous position. I could imagine a 10yo stuck on side of the road with a puncture, no phone and 10km between home and school. Thats safe with the amount of perverts in the world today or a dole bludger on way to pub being over the limit. Kids have after school to ride and have fun in a safe enviroment.
Tendonitis still plauging you then?Ben85 wrote:SLH,
If i upset any body, i'm sorry, when my tendonitis goes in my knee, you wont see me on here as il be training. If everyone on here spent the time on the bike they spent on here, you would become competitive cyclist and SA racing would become huge.
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Re: Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal
Postby Mulger bill » Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:33 pm
GOLD! Thanks CycoticCycotic wrote:My son rides 5km to school each day (and home again). He sticks to the footpaths and uses pedestrian crossings to cross major roads. I think it's much more dangerous now than when I rode to school many years ago. That's mainly because of the number of cars around the school, driven by mothers who won't let their kids ride to school because there's too many cars around the school, driven by mothers who won't let their kids ride to school because there's too many cars around the school......
And then there's the problem of childhood obesity. Maybe there's a link?
Shaun
London Boy 29/12/2011
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