Advertiser: 148,000 cyclists demand better deal

[uphillbattle]

I see the good and bad on both sides daily, I ride to work almost every day and then spend the rest of the day driving a truck around the city and suburbs and it never ceases to amaze me the antics and attitudes of both rider and driver. All I can say is that to me these people that carry on like they own the road whether they are on two or four wheels are coming from the shallow end of the gene pool and no amount of education or awareness is going to help them, all you can hope for is that when they do cause an accident you or someone you know is not involved

[SLH]

Slh, haha yeh, kids love to ride to school, but 10-12 is very young to be commuting by themselves to school. Just my opinion.

I should of said high school kids have more road sense, which they do, the amount of teens racing and using road everyday is growing very quickly.

Champion driver, where you pull that from, very strange. Since off the bike I drive to the pool every morning and see alot of cyclist doing crazy things, cutting of cars etc. When i ride I dont see this as much. There are bad on both sides, i never said there weren't.

What stats & theories am I pulling out of nowhere?

You seem very angry, I forgot teachers are experts in every thing, a breed of their own

.

These forums are so funny, every ones a hero behind the keyboard. I'm not on here to fight, just stat my opinion

We should go for a ride 1 day

I should of said high school kids have more road sense, which they do.

High school kids are bigger risk takers than Primary School kids. So I''m not sure where you got this fact from.

You seem very angry, I forgot teachers are experts in every thing, a breed of their own

I'm not angry, I just don't like to read made up evidence. And as for teachers knowing everything, that's a very interesting observation that says a lot about your ability to see a different point of view. As I said, there are good and bad in both riders and drivers, These people make the roads unsafe.

I said you were a "champion of the driver". not a champion driver. It means you seem to be only seeing it from one point of view, which is strange for a cyclist to be so anti riders. I'm also no hero behind a keyboard for having a point of view and knowing how to put forward an argument. Aren't you doing the same thing?

As for going for a ride....don't think you'd like it when I turned up in some team clothing.

[Mulger bill]

Since off the bike I drive to the pool every morning and see alot of cyclist doing crazy things, cutting of cars etc. When i ride I dont see this as much. There are bad on both sides, i never said there weren't.

Interesting way of demonstrating how the mind only sees what it wants to. At least you recognise and acknowledge that every tribe has its morons.

I had a rider run a stop sign across me bows in Adderley St AM today, three seconds after a white van did the same. Dunno what that proves, I just wanted to vent.

Shaun

[Ben85]

High school kids are a bigger risk than primary school kids? where did you get that fact from?

I'm just expressing from my expierences of riding with all sorts of people, I use to ride my recovery sessions with the u19/ u17/u15 group accompanied by a few adults. This was a very safe/ aware group. 90% on them dont have a car license.

The other rides are mega bike etc. These are very scary rides as people do stupid things, trying to overtake, not braking smoothly causing crashes. I only rode 2 of them and had 2 bad expierences. There are probabaly some good riders in these groups, but I like my skin.

The older generation don't like to be told that they are a bad rider/driver. The younger ones are willing to listen to their peers.

From my expierences.

Enjoy the weather

PS. a rider rode into the back of a bus this morning on Anzacs Say What?

[alex]

this morning on anzac hwy some guy who was riding in front of me almost came to a complete stop to let a car turn left down a side street, he actually waved the car through. typical hubbard wearing bus driver socks and council worker vest. couldnt believe what i was seeing.

[rustychisel]

Ben85, not wishing to get into a slanging match here, but I'm going to propose you're looking at this from an artificial perspective... considering this as a group by group or us and them perspective is the issue. Vehicle drivers dislike or distrust cyclists because of what they see as unpredictable or unfamiliar behavior and some happily manifest it as rants against lycra or whatever. It's a little [unfamiliar] group thing. Professional heavy vehicle drivers quite often know that car drivers are their own worst enemies however... and the evidence is quite simple... when there's no cyclists about those same drivers rant against other car drivers, or truck drivers, any target at all really.

Consider us all as groups who use the roads; 99% of all car drivers are capable and courteous, and they don't want to get into a bingle which will delay their trip. The other 1% are f**knuckles who would be that way whether they were driving a tonka toy in the playground or a bus for Torrens Transport.

It may be that 99% of all cyclists are capable and courteous too, but frankly it seems to me the percentage is a fair bit lower than that, there's some shocking behavior on the roads, shown by all. The most dangerous might well be students (often Asian, as it happens) who doodle along on Kmart mountain bikes (without lights!!) at 10kmh on Magill and Portrush Roads. Their issues are of road safety and positioning, mostly. However, we're all road users.

They're a far cry from those labelled 'lycra louts', but we all still have to share the roads together, along with the potentially lethal scooters (who now use cycle lanes with impunity) and a few too many muppets who happily text message whilst driving. This, in my view, will be the most dangerous challenge faced by cyclists - all cyclists - in the forseeable future.

Amongst cyclists the biggest problem seems among commuters (those who cycle to work more than 2~3 days a week) who simply jump red lights, swing across traffic lanes, ride through pedestrian crossings, and seem to care little for the consequences.

I'll make it simple as an idea: I don't call all motorists f**kwits and I don't expect to be called one either, just because I'm a cyclist. I obey the road rules, I never jump red lights etc, and I expect that you might do the same as I. When you see someone breaking the rules call them on it. Every time. Let them know it's rubbish; car drivers and cyclists alike. I have a friend who calls out to drivers on their mobile phones and faces them down until they hang up. Each one, every time. Good on him. If you see someone on a bike jump a red light call them on it. Every time.

Remember, we're not just playing in the traffic, WE ARE THE TRAFFIC. Good luck out there.

[gdt]

Looks like The Advertiser knows when it's on a winner. I welcome our new slow-news-day overlords, and look forward to cycling joining the traditional slow news day topics of single mums having more babies for increased welfare payments, the Gang of 49, euthanasia, ... (not).

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/stor ... 01,00.html

Cycle registration is no solution
Amy Noonan

The State Government and Bicycle SA have rejected calls for the registration of bikes. More than 400 people joined the debate on AdelaideNow, with many calling for compulsory registration for bikes, similar to vehicle registration. "All bikes should have a registered ID so dangerous riding can be reported as with dangerous driving," Sarah of Adelaide wrote.

Police, meanwhile, confirmed that cyclists caught breaking road rules or riding under the influence of alcohol and drugs could be fined and lose up to six demerit points.

Other readers pointed out that it costs more than just the proceeds from car registration to maintain the road networks. "Car rego primarily does not fund the roads; we pay tax/council rates, the tax/rates revenue fund the road and infrastructure we use, therefore all payers have a right to use the roads and more importantly, all have the right to be safe whilst using them," Erik of Adelaide wrote.

A spokesman for Transport Minister Patrick Conlon said there was no bike registration in Australia. "The administration costs of introducing and operating a registration scheme for cyclists would far outweigh the benefits and the Government is not considering such a scheme," the spokesman said.

Bicycle SA chief executive Christian Haag said, if anything, cyclists should get a rebate. "Why should a cyclist pay for registration or have another barrier put up to stop them from riding when they're actually saving the economy?" he said. "Nationally the current rate of cycling is saving $150 million in health costs, $64 million in congestion costs and $10 million in greenhouse emission costs."

Mr Conlon said more than 100km of new bike lanes and paths would be added this financial year. New lanes are planned for Port Rd, Portrush Rd, Diagonal Rd, Henley Beach Rd, Golden Way, Marion Rd and Victoria Square.

As usual, the comments show the understanding and consideration for which Adelaide motorists are well known.

[brauluver]

Well put Rustychisel.

[Ben85]

RustyChisel did put it very well.

Just your last paragraph, I totally agree, but its one of those things that everyone is an expert and cant be told. Some old bloke, doesnt like being told to keep left by a bunch of kids coming through faster or told he should of given way to a car.

Same with motorist, everyones a great driver, never make a mistake

In racing its a bit different, cause there is a large number hassling a few riders on bike skill, so they get the point.

I wish bike sa left the can shut, it will cool over in a few weeks.

Good to see so many bike riders on the road today sticking it to the hand full of knob motorist.

Im happy with the amount of knobs who whinged on Adelaidenow, only 500 or so out of 1,600,000 South Aussies. Which half where cyclist.

[Mulger bill]

Looks like The Advertiser knows when it's on a winner. I welcome our new slow-news-day overlords, and look forward to cycling joining the traditional slow news day topics of single mums having more babies for increased welfare payments, the Gang of 49, euthanasia, ... (not).

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/stor ... 01,00.html

Cycle registration is no solution
Amy Noonan

The State Government and Bicycle SA have rejected calls for the registration of bikes. More than 400 people joined the debate on AdelaideNow, with many calling for compulsory registration for bikes, similar to vehicle registration. "All bikes should have a registered ID so dangerous riding can be reported as with dangerous driving," Sarah of Adelaide wrote.

Police, meanwhile, confirmed that cyclists caught breaking road rules or riding under the influence of alcohol and drugs could be fined and lose up to six demerit points.

Other readers pointed out that it costs more than just the proceeds from car registration to maintain the road networks. "Car rego primarily does not fund the roads; we pay tax/council rates, the tax/rates revenue fund the road and infrastructure we use, therefore all payers have a right to use the roads and more importantly, all have the right to be safe whilst using them," Erik of Adelaide wrote.

A spokesman for Transport Minister Patrick Conlon said there was no bike registration in Australia. "The administration costs of introducing and operating a registration scheme for cyclists would far outweigh the benefits and the Government is not considering such a scheme," the spokesman said.

Bicycle SA chief executive Christian Haag said, if anything, cyclists should get a rebate. "Why should a cyclist pay for registration or have another barrier put up to stop them from riding when they're actually saving the economy?" he said. "Nationally the current rate of cycling is saving $150 million in health costs, $64 million in congestion costs and $10 million in greenhouse emission costs."

Mr Conlon said more than 100km of new bike lanes and paths would be added this financial year. New lanes are planned for Port Rd, Portrush Rd, Diagonal Rd, Henley Beach Rd, Golden Way, Marion Rd and Victoria Square.

As usual, the comments show the understanding and consideration for which Adelaide motorists are well known.

One worthwhile statement in that lot and it's a biggy. The Govt gets it, now for Joe Bloggs.

Shaun

[Amplifier]

Im only new to riding but i would have started alot sooner if there was better infrastructure. I hate those bike lanes that randomly end.

Due to the projected traffic volumes for South Australia over the next 10 years im suprised the government doesnt want to get more people riding. Its not as if the government makes money from drivers anyway the taxes and fees barely cover road maintenance let alone construction of new roads.

[adelaidecyclist]

Slh, haha yeh, kids love to ride to school, but 10-12 is very young to be commuting by themselves to school. Just my opinion.

..and my parents always told me stories of them riding to and from school with their friends, with no parents when they were in primary school..

Better just do what all the other sheep do and drop them off our the front of school in mum's 4x4 then.

BikeSA must have their facts wrong. I'm a cyclist and I don't want the speed limit to be 40km/h. What we need are more green corridors. Every train track/tram line/busway in Adelaide should have a path next to it, or at least the effort made to do so. This will greatly alleviate the problem. Think of them as arterial roads for cyclists. From there we can use the backstreets.

[gdt]

Every train track/tram line/busway in Adelaide should have a path next to it...

For the record, BikeSA has been promoting that to the government for a few years now. I've lived in cities with this sort of cycle path. They're a fine idea and work well. The major difficulty is personal safety. In that sense a bike path in full view of passing motorists has an attraction.

IMHO there's no one solution to car/cycle interaction. Simply because there isn't just one sort of cyclist.

I expect we'll see 40Km/h speed limits as a result of the current underspending on cycling infrastructure. Imagine what happens when we have a decent petrol price crunch (say $2 in a year). The government will be caught with its pants down and will need to make cycling a non-threatening alternative for commuters, and will need to do that rather quickly. It will only have two responses that don't have a huge engineering lead time: to run around with white paint creating more "bike lanes" and to drop the speed limit in the CBD and suburbs.

[m@]

Every train track/tram line/busway in Adelaide should have a path next to it...

For the record, BikeSA has been promoting that to the government for a few years now. I've lived in cities with this sort of cycle path. They're a fine idea and work well. The major difficulty is personal safety. In that sense a bike path in full view of passing motorists has an attraction.

IMHO there's no one solution to car/cycle interaction. Simply because there isn't just one sort of cyclist.

I expect we'll see 40Km/h speed limits as a result of the current underspending on cycling infrastructure. Imagine what happens when we have a decent petrol price crunch (say $2 in a year). The government will be caught with its pants down and will need to make cycling a non-threatening alternative for commuters, and will need to do that rather quickly. It will only have two responses that don't have a huge engineering lead time: to run around with white paint creating more "bike lanes" and to drop the speed limit in the CBD and suburbs.

I envy your (relative) optimism - the only change I foresee due to rising oil costs is a phasing-out of petrol cars and replacement with coal (electric) powered cars with very little difference to current vehicle design, road congestion, CO2 emissions etc... and a general rise in the cost of living due to freight costs and carbon emissions trading. Colour me cynical...

[gdt]

I envy your (relative) optimism...

I'm not that optimistic, I've got to say.

Cars are very convenient, and it's quite possible that people will spend a large amount of money to keep using them. But here's the thing -- some proportion of car drivers will substitute cycling for some trips. If even 10% of people substitute for other forms of transport then it will overwhelm the alternatives, so low is today's use of non-car personal transport.

Most of those alternatives already have a long lead time, but we're already seeing capacity constraints (and some which might take decades to correct). You can't buy a tram for love or money at the moment. There's such a crunch on rail that it's economic for historical railway societies to return their diesel-electric locomotives back into service. Congestion at Town Hall station in Sydney threatens most expansion alternatives for Sydney passenger rail. Buses seem attractive, but there's only so many bus stops you can fit into a CBD street before it dies --- George St in Sydney and Grenfell St in Adelaide will be at that capacity in a few years.

Cycling offers an amelioration of the issue, but isn't a solution by any stretch because our cities and workplaces are designed for easy long-distance travel. Not enough people are going to cycle daily from outer to inner Sydney or from southern to northern Adelaide to be a solution. But as a partial solution it is cheap and available with a much lower lead time than other transport alternatives.

So yeah, when governments start taking strong measures to promote cycling it will be partly reflective of just how desperate a circumstance has been caused by their overinvestment in cars and their underinvestment in metro rail and trams. I'm not sure that's "optimistic"

[Ben85]

Slh, haha yeh, kids love to ride to school, but 10-12 is very young to be commuting by themselves to school. Just my opinion.

..and my parents always told me stories of them riding to and from school with their friends, with no parents when they were in primary school..

Better just do what all the other sheep do and drop them off our the front of school in mum's 4x4 then. .

haha very good, my parents also rode to school everyday back in the 50s. Half the population, Adeliade was mostly paddock. So there wasnt much risk of being hit by a car/bus riding down a busy road.

Sure kids can ride to school, if they live 5 minutes away and ride on the footpath. The way they where discussing it was 10yo kids riding a bmx along south road to school.

I'm sick of the wife telling me stories of kids coming in to work being involved in bike accidents.

Nothing wrong with mums 4x4 and ive never seen a sheep driving one

Strange

[adelaidecyclist]

For the record, BikeSA has been promoting that to the government for a few years now. I've lived in cities with this sort of cycle path. They're a fine idea and work well. The major difficulty is personal safety. In that sense a bike path in full view of passing motorists has an attraction.

Personal safety is a genuine concern, however I ride along a fair section of train track (from Mawson Lakes to Edinburgh) regularly, through some "average" areas, and haven't had any trouble to date. It may be one of those "suck it up" situations until more people start riding.

It's kind of a catch 22 - build bike paths in these areas and it will be a personal risk until more people ride, but people won't start riding until the paths are made and they can ride away from the cars.

[Cycotic]

My son rides 5km to school each day (and home again). He sticks to the footpaths and uses pedestrian crossings to cross major roads. I think it's much more dangerous now than when I rode to school many years ago. That's mainly because of the number of cars around the school, driven by mothers who won't let their kids ride to school because there's too many cars around the school, driven by mothers who won't let their kids ride to school because there's too many cars around the school......

And then there's the problem of childhood obesity. Maybe there's a link?

[thommo09]

Nothing wrong with mums 4x4 and ive never seen a sheep driving one

There might not be anything wrong with Mum's 4WD for the kids in the back, but what about all the other road users?! IMHO the most dangerous time to be on the roads in between 3:00 and 4:00pm when school finishes. I'm not having a go at Mum's in 4WD's for their driving skills, but let's be honest, Mum driving her 4WD around that time often has a lot more on her mind than just driving safely

[SLH]

Ben85, perhaps you should call Bob Francis and discuss your concerns. I'm sure you'll get along just fine.

[Ben85]

Ben85, perhaps you should call Bob Francis and discuss your concerns. I'm sure you'll get along just fine.

Whats your problem? How old are you? A school teacher that uses forums to give the younger generation a hard time. Real mature.

I guess we have different opinions, no need to be a smart arse.

A kid I went to school with was paralysed, when hit by a car that ran a pesdestrian crossing on his way to school. So I worry when hearing kids so young putting there lifes at such risk.

Thommo, good point. The guy who hit my mate was a businessman on his phone. So any time of the day is dangerous.

[SLH]

Ben85, perhaps you should call Bob Francis and discuss your concerns. I'm sure you'll get along just fine.

Whats your problem? How old are you? A school teacher that uses forums to give the younger generation a hard time. Real mature.

I guess we have different opinions, no need to be a smart arse.

A kid I went to school with was paralysed, when hit by a car that ran a pesdestrian crossing on his way to school. So I worry when hearing kids so young putting there lifes at such risk.

Thommo, good point. The guy who hit my mate was a businessman on his phone. So any time of the day is dangerous.

First of all, it doesn't matter how old I am or that I'm a smart arse. I disagree with you because you seem to make up stuff related to stats based solely on opinion and that's dangerous. I agree that kids need to be careful when riding their bikes, but earlier you suggested that all kids shouldn't be allowed to ride more than 5 minutes to school based on one awful example of a dangerous act. If we live our lives in fear that something bad will happen, where does any enjoyment in life come from?

Perhaps I do look for your posts, but it was you who suggested all riders who wear anything remotely like a team kit are !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! and cafe warriors. Maybe I should let it go, but I found it incredibly distasteful to pigeon hole so many people out there who enjoy riding for the sake of it.

[Ben85]

Haha, If I want to make up stats from my previous experience, that aint nothing dangerous about that. BSA make up their own bs about cyclists in Adelaide and we all cop the !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! from it, thats dangerous. 148,000 cyclists, where they pull that from. No one I know demands a better deal.

I don't see any 10yo kids riding down south/goodwood/anzacs on school mornings ever. Because most parents care for there children and wouldn't put there kids in such a dangerous position. I could imagine a 10yo stuck on side of the road with a puncture, no phone and 10km between home and school. Thats safe with the amount of perverts in the world today or a dole bludger on way to pub being over the limit. Kids have after school to ride and have fun in a safe enviroment.

Yes I still stand by, anyone that wears a full team kit who arent in the team are !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !!. They are millions of plain kits and club kits you can buy. Stop trying to be something ya not. You cant wear a team kit in a CSA race unless your in the team. I saw team cervelo today, didn't relise they were in Adelaide

You enjoy ya cycling and Il catch ya at the crits, I dont know your name though???

Youll find me to be a good bloke, just have a strong opinion

[brauluver]

I don't see any 10yo kids riding down south/goodwood/anzacs on school mornings ever. Because most parents care for there children and wouldn't put there kids in such a dangerous position. I could imagine a 10yo stuck on side of the road with a puncture, no phone and 10km between home and school. Thats safe with the amount of perverts in the world today or a dole bludger on way to pub being over the limit. Kids have after school to ride and have fun in a safe enviroment.

Are you sure you aren't Big Bob, with sensationalist generalisations like that you sound like him?

SLH,

If i upset any body, i'm sorry, when my tendonitis goes in my knee, you wont see me on here as il be training. If everyone on here spent the time on the bike they spent on here, you would become competitive cyclist and SA racing would become huge.

Tendonitis still plauging you then?

[Mulger bill]

My son rides 5km to school each day (and home again). He sticks to the footpaths and uses pedestrian crossings to cross major roads. I think it's much more dangerous now than when I rode to school many years ago. That's mainly because of the number of cars around the school, driven by mothers who won't let their kids ride to school because there's too many cars around the school, driven by mothers who won't let their kids ride to school because there's too many cars around the school......

And then there's the problem of childhood obesity. Maybe there's a link?

GOLD! Thanks Cycotic

Shaun