Source for quality cotter pins?

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Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby rchrd » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:33 pm

I bought a bunch of new cotter pins from the lbs recently and I think they must be made from steel plated cheese. The face of the pins deforms, and the threads on the pin and in the nuts strips out super easy. Where can I get better ones? Please!

The only ones I can find on ebay Australia look to be the same as the ones I've got, but with a higher price. The old ones I've used seem to be way better quality, but I don't have any left.
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by BNA » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:28 am

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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby oldschoolfool » Fri Nov 13, 2009 9:28 am

I have a bag of "OLD" cotter pins, unused, in the shed. Tell me what diameter you need and i'll check. These are not made from SHYTE steel, they are the old original types.
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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby hartleymartin » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:08 am

I recently bought new cotter pins from the LBS and didn't think that they were that bad. Did you install them with a cotter pin press, a hammer or did you just shove it in and use a spanner to tighten it? In that order, is the best to worst ways to install cotters.
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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby rchrd » Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:55 am

I don't have verniers but I'm pretty sure they're 9.5mm. I think the cranks are Japanese, the only markings are SMC on the axle and little penguins wearing scarves stamped into the crank arms.

I don't have a press, been putting them in with a hammer, but might see if I can rig something up with vice grips. These pins probably need to be cared for a little more I guess. They have a substantially smaller diameter on the nutted part than the older (but damaged) ones I have around and just seem to be poorer quality in general (cast?).

Cheers,
rich.
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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby oldschoolfool » Fri Nov 13, 2009 11:18 am

rchrd wrote:I don't have verniers but I'm pretty sure they're 9.5mm. I think the cranks are Japanese, the only markings are SMC on the axle and little penguins wearing scarves stamped into the crank arms.

I don't have a press, been putting them in with a hammer, but might see if I can rig something up with vice grips. These pins probably need to be cared for a little more I guess. They have a substantially smaller diameter on the nutted part than the older (but damaged) ones I have around and just seem to be poorer quality in general (cast?).

Cheers,
rich.


I can send you 4 pins, 2 nuts and 2 washers. These were purchased NOS (New Old Stock) from europe. If you still have problems you might want to check your technique. Just let me know where you want them sent.
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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby peddlepower » Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:33 pm

I have an old 70's Raleigh and was really surprised when i went looking for cotter pins recently.I headed straight for a local Raleigh dealer and a what i thought was a well established bike shop only to be met with poor customer service,blank stares and head scratching? :shock: I tried two other local bike shops and also no luck.
I ended up going to a very helpful bunch of guys at Cycle Revolution at West End (Brisbane) who had exactly what i needed.
They also helped me with 28'' tubes,reflectors and cable clamps for my vintage Malvern Star.
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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby kevinwulf » Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:16 pm

hartleymartin wrote:I recently bought new cotter pins from the LBS and didn't think that they were that bad. Did you install them with a cotter pin press, a hammer or did you just shove it in and use a spanner to tighten it? In that order, is the best to worst ways to install cotters.


Hmmm, interesting. Someone I trust deeply in the ways of bicycles told me that using the spanner was the best way. Anyone else got thoughts on this?
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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby hartleymartin » Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:37 pm

Never install a cotterpin by tightening it up with a spanner! you'll just strip the threads. Basically you have to press-fit the cotterpin, and the nut is really only there to make sure it doesn't fall out.
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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby Torana68 » Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:55 pm

kevinwulf wrote:
hartleymartin wrote:I recently bought new cotter pins from the LBS and didn't think that they were that bad. Did you install them with a cotter pin press, a hammer or did you just shove it in and use a spanner to tighten it? In that order, is the best to worst ways to install cotters.


Hmmm, interesting. Someone I trust deeply in the ways of bicycles told me that using the spanner was the best way. Anyone else got thoughts on this?


hammer is for dummies unless you support the crank arm , just about no one had a press so everyone did them up and never had a problem, its the newer rubbish steel ones that strip and/or people who dont know how to use tools
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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby lethoso » Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:43 pm

I've used a block with a hole drilled through it for the pin to support the crank, and a hammer to knock it in. Worked ok for me.
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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby kukamunga » Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:16 pm

rchrd wrote:I think the cranks are Japanese, the only markings are SMC on the axle and little penguins wearing scarves stamped into the crank arms.
I hope you've got a good close up function on your camera, rchrd. Those cute sounding penguins don't exist till we see pics of 'em..... (please!) :wink:
God save the ABC & SBS.....
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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby peddlepower » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:57 pm

A a kid i removed and replaced cotter pins with a spanner and a hammer.
I recently had to replace the cotter pins on my vintage Raleigh....the technique still works for me. :wink:
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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby kevinwulf » Tue Nov 17, 2009 11:36 pm

What's the concensus with greasing cotter pins before insertion?

I know opinion is divided on greasing square taper spindles for crank arms but I follow Jobst Brandt and DO grease them. As such, I've always greased cotter pins too. Keen to hear other's opinions.
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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby WyvernRH » Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:31 am

kevinwulf wrote:What's the concensus with greasing cotter pins before insertion?

I know opinion is divided on greasing square taper spindles for crank arms but I follow Jobst Brandt and DO grease them. As such, I've always greased cotter pins too. Keen to hear other's opinions.


Hang on a minute! I remember having quite heated e-mail discussions with Jobst back in the 90's re the greasing of axle tapers and he was hard set against it on theoretical grounds while I was for it on empirical experience gained while removing many greased/ungreased alloy cranks. Has he changed his mind?

Back on the cotter pin thread, I say yes, grease them, even tho they are an interference fit. Any excess will be squeezed out and the (possibly microscopic) remainder will help prevent corrosion and ease removal. Also grease the axle when fitting a steel crank onto the axle.

Cheers
Richard
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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby kevinwulf » Wed Nov 18, 2009 7:46 am

WyvernRH wrote:Hang on a minute! I remember having quite heated e-mail discussions with Jobst back in the 90's re the greasing of axle tapers and he was hard set against it on theoretical grounds while I was for it on empirical experience gained while removing many greased/ungreased alloy cranks. Has he changed his mind?


It would seem so.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/installing-cranks.html

"Install and properly tighten new cranks on the spindle after greasing the tapered square ends of the spindle. Proper tightness should be achieved with a torque wrench or by a skilled hand."
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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby oldschoolfool » Wed Nov 18, 2009 9:41 am

Yes! Definitely grease cotter pins. Greasing crank tapers can stop creaking.
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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby daacha » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:21 pm

WyvernRH wrote:
kevinwulf wrote:What's the concensus with greasing cotter pins before insertion?

I know opinion is divided on greasing square taper spindles for crank arms but I follow Jobst Brandt and DO grease them. As such, I've always greased cotter pins too. Keen to hear other's opinions.


Hang on a minute! I remember having quite heated e-mail discussions with Jobst back in the 90's re the greasing of axle tapers and he was hard set against it on theoretical grounds while I was for it on empirical experience gained while removing many greased/ungreased alloy cranks. Has he changed his mind?

Back on the cotter pin thread, I say yes, grease them, even tho they are an interference fit. Any excess will be squeezed out and the (possibly microscopic) remainder will help prevent corrosion and ease removal. Also grease the axle when fitting a steel crank onto the axle.

Cheers
Richard

This is interesting. I was fitting some Sugino old school track cranks last night and found an old sealed packet of Campy crank bolts. The leaflet definitely said clean axle tapers of all grease before fitting cranks. I was going to ask the question but don't need to now. :D

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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby rustychisel » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:44 pm

I remember those flaming debates!!!!

And yes, he's changed his mind then. I'm with you Richard - grease 'em (cotter pins and tapers). Campagnolo always said 'no grease' but what would they know. Couldn't win the war, couldn't make a car or a tank worth a damn. If it moves grease it, I say.

***they say a greased pig goes faster but I wouldn't know about that
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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby daacha » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:57 pm

^^ :D ^^
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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby DarrylH » Wed Nov 18, 2009 2:59 pm

Cotter pins are supposed to be softish, so the threads will not take a lot of force. My method (learned in a bikeshop when assembling new Apollos) - put them in with a hammer while supporting the crank with a bigger hammer or block of wood (to avoid the shock damaging the bearings). Nip up the nut firmly to hold them in. To remove, loosen nut till level with the end of the cotter and hit sharply with a hammer while supporting crank as above.
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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby rustychisel » Wed Nov 18, 2009 3:09 pm

DarrylH wrote:Cotter pins are supposed to be softish, so the threads will not take a lot of force. My method (learned in a bikeshop when assembling new Apollos) - put them in with a hammer while supporting the crank with a bigger hammer or block of wood (to avoid the shock damaging the bearings). Nip up the nut firmly to hold them in. To remove, loosen nut till level with the end of the cotter and hit sharply with a hammer while supporting crank as above.




Agreed, agreed.

But, when removing them, undo the nut only a few turns, making sure at least 3 or 4 threads are still engaged, otherwise when you give it a smack the threads will distort and most likely the exposed thread will bend over like a saggy weenie.
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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby oldschoolfool » Wed Nov 18, 2009 4:13 pm

DarrylH wrote:Cotter pins are supposed to be softish, so the threads will not take a lot of force. My method (learned in a bikeshop when assembling new Apollos) - put them in with a hammer while supporting the crank with a bigger hammer or block of wood (to avoid the shock damaging the bearings). Nip up the nut firmly to hold them in. To remove, loosen nut till level with the end of the cotter and hit sharply with a hammer while supporting crank as above.


The normal Elasticity of medium carbon steels is soft enough. The problem is the use of low carbon LEADED steels that are as soft as showtime!!!!!!!!

Aside from the materials issue is the thread size used. Smaller threads are used to enable the use of smaller/cheaper nuts compounding the overall situation.
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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby rchrd » Wed Nov 18, 2009 5:43 pm

kukamunga wrote:
rchrd wrote:I think the cranks are Japanese, the only markings are SMC on the axle and little penguins wearing scarves stamped into the crank arms.
I hope you've got a good close up function on your camera, rchrd. Those cute sounding penguins don't exist till we see pics of 'em..... (please!) :wink:


Here ya go

Image

There's the same penguin on the crank axle along with "SMC" and "Japan". I'm going to post a thread about the bike I got them with because I'm not sure what it is, it'll be up soon.

Unfortunately the chainring on these cranks is pretty worn, looks like it's been run a long time with an old chain so they may not last much longer unless there's a way of putting on a new one (welding?).
Cheers,
rich
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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby oldschoolfool » Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:03 pm

rchrd wrote:
kukamunga wrote:
rchrd wrote:I think the cranks are Japanese, the only markings are SMC on the axle and little penguins wearing scarves stamped into the crank arms.
I hope you've got a good close up function on your camera, rchrd. Those cute sounding penguins don't exist till we see pics of 'em..... (please!) :wink:


Here ya go

Image

There's the same penguin on the crank axle along with "SMC" and "Japan". I'm going to post a thread about the bike I got them with because I'm not sure what it is, it'll be up soon.

Unfortunately the chainring on these cranks is pretty worn, looks like it's been run a long time with an old chain so they may not last much longer unless there's a way of putting on a new one (welding?).
Cheers,
rich


If I were a penguin, walking around with my "privates" that close to the snow, I don't think I'd be wearing a scarf around my neck. Maybe configure a sling to warm other parts of my anatomy!
    Tange Free Zone
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Re: Source for quality cotter pins?

Postby rkelsen » Sat Nov 21, 2009 8:05 pm

rustychisel wrote:Couldn't win the war, couldn't make a car or a tank worth a damn.

*cough* FerrariLamborghiniMaserati *cough*
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