Buying a helmet from on-line USA - is it safe for my head
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Buying a helmet from on-line USA - is it safe for my head
Postby lavs » Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:55 pm
My main concern before I take the plunge is related to meeting Australian helmet standards - one of the helmets I'm keen on is the Giro Atmos, which has met approved Australian standards. So I assume if I buy this online I am buying the same Australian Giro Atmos product and therefore it is safe (or is this an incorrect assumption???).
I've also been eyeing off the Giro Ionos, a very new helmet which supersedes the Atmos but is not available in Australia and unlikely to be available in Australia (according to Pacific Leisure Distributors). So my questions are:
1. Is an identical helmet bought overseas still legally usable in Australia?
2. Is it more sensible to buy the Atmos rather than the Ionos because we know it meets Australian safety standards rather than the Ionos which has not?
Ie. if I have a nasty accident in Australia whilst wearing an Ionos will I still be insured?
Thankyou all!!!
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Postby europa » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:00 pm
Your helmet from the USA will be the same helmet on sale here - we are not a big enough market to warrant special models, and the American standards are pretty good anyway.
However, that imported helmet will NOT have the Australian Standards sticker on it. That makes it illegal and probably does nasty things to your insurance. However, whether anyone is likely to pick up on the lack of the sticker is another question.
You could just try to avoid falling off
Richard
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Postby Wanta-bike » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:14 pm
take the sticker off a helmet u brought here with the 'AS/NZS 2063' printed on it and stick it on the Ionos! hehe
tho hav u tried on the Atmos? as its a pretty wicked helmet and i daresay that the difference will be quite minimal comparing the Ionos and the Atmos....
...tho having not looked at the Ionos, please correct me if the Ionos has like twice the amount of vents or like half the weight of the Atmos....
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Postby Mulger bill » Tue Sep 11, 2007 11:56 pm
I'm not 100% sure, but I think US lids have a different width to the straps than AU versions, different standards prolly down to US litigiousness
Tread very carefully with this, or anything bad will be turned into your fault very quickly by a clever lawyer
Shaun
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Postby toolonglegs » Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:57 am
Also I have had a Giro Atmos for 8 months,yeah great helmet but mine has a crack dwn the middle,don't know if I am getting warranty but at least I have a chance of it...you wont.
Apart from that I am sure they are identical,because of AU small market it is quite a big expense to bring a new helmet in as it has to go thru the testing.
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Postby sogood » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:12 am
Wow! I thought you only cracked bike frames. This is a revelation!toolonglegs wrote:Also I have had a Giro Atmos for 8 months,yeah great helmet but mine has a crack dwn the middle,don't know if I am getting warranty but at least I have a chance of it...you wont.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Postby lavs » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:11 am
I'm thinking I will buy the Atmos from the US as I'm 99% sure the helmet is the same as the Australian version. The discrepancy in price is too great to ignore (approx $150 difference including shipping costs).
I think the legal side of things is an issue, but as it has been mentioned, I doubt it would get picked up by the insurers/lawyers if the need arose.
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Postby mikesbytes » Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:11 am
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Postby toolonglegs » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:15 am
I have a Met strad at the mo...has last 7 years,has been bashed into many a tree and still has no cracks
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Postby sogood » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:33 am
I haven't seen any info suggesting Giro or Met being different as far as quality is concerned. They are probably all made in China in similar factories and have all passed Australian Standards testing. The only differentials with helmets these days seemed to just relate to their appearance, fit and the number of holes.mikesbytes wrote:I was thinking of picking up a Grio from that cheap shop in Paramatta, are they no good? Should I stick to Met?
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Postby triode12 » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:55 am
It depends on the fit (shape of your noggin). e.g. The Mets fit me better than do the Giros. YMMV.mikesbytes wrote:I was thinking of picking up a Grio from that cheap shop in Paramatta, are they no good? Should I stick to Met?
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Postby MJF » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:56 am
What insurance would that be? AFAIK, it is not illegal to ride a bicycle with a helmet without a standards sticker on it - it is just illegal to sell one from a shop in Australia. If it came down to you suing someone after an accident and they claimed contributory negligence because the helmet you were wearing didn't have the sticker, you can still argue it was the same as the Australian helmet anyway...lavs wrote: I think the legal side of things is an issue, but as it has been mentioned, I doubt it would get picked up by the insurers/lawyers if the need arose.
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Postby sogood » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:16 am
Interesting issue. Does this mean that pro racers from O/Ss have to have helmets for each region they compete in? Hard to imagine. How about recreational riders from overseas? I can't imagine insurance companies would stick the blame of a head injury back to their helmet. At worst, it would only be partial responsibility for having a very very dodgy helmet. For any of the major brands in decent condition, insurance companies won't have a leg to stand on, irrespective of the country of purchase.MJF wrote:What insurance would that be? AFAIK, it is not illegal to ride a bicycle with a helmet without a standards sticker on it - it is just illegal to sell one from a shop in Australia. If it came down to you suing someone after an accident and they claimed contributory negligence because the helmet you were wearing didn't have the sticker, you can still argue it was the same as the Australian helmet anyway...
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Postby Birdman » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:25 am
TdF??? Obviously they would have sponsors for every item they use and wear. Do you think they have a different helmet for every tour or race in every country they visit???sogood wrote: Interesting issue. Does this mean that pro racers from O/Ss have to have helmets for each region they compete in?
Mitch.
Until next time...
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Postby sogood » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:39 am
No, I was thinking of major races like the Tour Downunder and other races that attract international riders here in Australia. I doubt those O/S riders would get a special helmet with AS sticker just so that they can conform to Cycling Australia's rule. Bear in mind, having a sponsor does not mean you'll get an unlimited amount of hardware.Birdman wrote:TdF??? Obviously they would have sponsors for every item they use and wear. Do you think they have a different helmet for every tour or race in every country they visit???
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Postby LuckyPierre » Wed Sep 12, 2007 11:41 am
Sorry Michael, but in the ACT (as in all (most?) other states) the wearing of an Australian Standards approved bicycle helmet is compulsory, ie. a legal requirement.MJF wrote: ... AFAIK, it is not illegal to ride a bicycle with a helmet without a standards sticker on it - it is just illegal to sell one from a shop in Australia ...
If a helmet does not have a sticker in it (AS2036-1996) it isn't an approved one - it doesn't matter if it used to have one or not.
I'm not sure what the regulations regarding their sale are, but the wearing of an approved helment is a personal responsibility. It makes sense that it would be illegal to sell 'non-approved' helmets, but it is most likely that it is illegal to represent a non-approved as an approved one - ie. the misrepresentation is illegal, not the sale.
And, don't worry, an insurer will use any legal position it can to legitimately limit their liability.
edited to add...
Things happened while I was posting.
The issue does come up in events like the TdU - there's some official stuff about it somewhere. It's my understanding that it was treated as a significant issue at last year's TdU.
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Postby sogood » Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:31 pm
For racing they do. But I was more specifically interested in the safety standards that regulate these equipments.europa wrote:The USA doesn't have compulsory helmet wearing.
Some countries in Europe do, others don't as far as I understand it, though that may have changed with the new common Europe (or whatever they call it).
Seriously though, there needs to be some kind of harmonization program wrt these safety standards. I find it hard to believe those Euro and US standards are much lower than what we have here. And it's just spin doctoring to say local standards are required to protect our heads better. As far as I see it, local standard is more geared to protect national sovereignty and jobs rather than any real safety/engineering issues. Countries should just get together and establish an ISO standard and be done with it.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Postby LuckyPierre » Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:46 pm
Not 'each region' necessarily, but possibly each region / country where legislation required specific standards to be met.sogood wrote: ... Does this mean that pro racers from O/Ss have to have helmets for each region they compete in? Hard to imagine ...
Sadly, I think that they would.sogood wrote: ... I can't imagine insurance companies would stick the blame of a head injury back to their helmet. ...
Sadly, I think that they would.sogood wrote: ... For any of the major brands in decent condition, insurance companies won't have a leg to stand on, irrespective of the country of purchase ...
Just for interest, the Australian Burea of Transport Safety has published the results of testing it did to compare the effectiveness of helmets that meet both AS 2036 and Snell B95 standards.
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Postby LuckyPierre » Wed Sep 12, 2007 12:49 pm
The ATSB report indicates that there are real reasons.sogood wrote: ... local standard is more geared to protect national sovereignty and jobs rather than any real safety/engineering issues ...
I absolutely agree!sogood wrote: ... Countries should just get together and establish an ISO standard and be done with it ...
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Postby sogood » Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:02 pm
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Postby lavs » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:04 pm
Option 1. Order the Atmos from a US on line store for $200 AUD including shipping.
Option 2. Purchase the Atmos from an Australian store for $350.
The extra $150 gets me a red sticker, but it may be legally problematic if I'm in an accident.
If anyone knows where in Australia I could get the helmet for a more reasonable price than $350 I would like to know. But I feel like a chump paying $150 extra for the same product.
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Postby MJF » Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:04 pm
So there you go - you can get fined $51 in the ACT for wearing a helmet without an AS sticker. But nothing to say that you can't pull the sticker off another helmet
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