TT position

Individual and Team TT

TT position

Postby philip » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:23 pm

I'm planning to enter the 2 man 50km TT at Calga on the 7th so got myself some clip on aero bars from good old ebay. I've put them on and made a few adjustments, they're currently 12.5cm (centre to centre) apart and I have the pads fairly low (they're the profile t2+ carbon model which are very adjustable). I haven't gone out for a ride yet but I got my girlfriend to take some photos of my position because I had no clue what my position looked like. My position seems a bit strange from the photos, but I can't tell what might need to be fixed, so here are the photos:

Image

This one makes me look like I'm a giant on a small bike but I'm pretty sure it's just the photo:
Image
Front view:
Image
From looking at pro TT positions, their backs are a lot more horizontal than mine. My knees are very close to hitting my elbows, they probably would if I had the elbow pads any narrower. From what I can tell my bike has a pretty relaxed geometry (I've already flipped the stem and removed all the spaces) so this may explain it.

Also I'm a bit wary of using them during when behind my partner as I then don't have my hands on the brakes so may swap to drops when I'm drafting.

Anyone done a 2up TT before? Got any tips? We're thinking of starting off by taking turns of 2-3 minutes and then see how we're both feeling.
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by BNA » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:48 pm

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Re: TT position

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Jan 27, 2010 5:48 pm

You need to put the bike on the trainer and have the camera as far away and level as possible...because you look like you are really cramped up on the bike.
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Re: TT position

Postby philip » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:00 pm

yeah you're right I need to take some better photos, after going away and coming back and looking and them they're even worse than when I looked at them before.. me/bike ratio doesn't look right at all
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Re: TT position

Postby philip » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:28 pm

Ok here's a better one - had to go outside (don't have a trainer) with the gf again - took about 20 photos but only 1 turned out half ok.. this camera really sucks! (yes I am wearing thongs)

Image
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Re: TT position

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:38 pm

:lol: looks better...sort off :D .
I wouldn't bother changing position too much for a one off....I did the same as you and just ran clip-ons for a TTT.They made a huge difference in my average speeds.
I also think the fact that even in races I spend a lot of time holding onto my cables with my forearms on the tops helped.My problem was that I could push so hard in that position and hold it for so long that I over did it and pulled something in my hip joint...they came off after that!.
Took me two good rides to get used to them...especially cornering in them and learning to stay tucked in when behind.
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Re: TT position

Postby Ant. » Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:56 pm

Try push them inwards another cm or two as the front on shot shows elbows wider than knees. Tilt the extensions upwards a little bit so your forearms are horizontal?

Apart from that, it probably looks like the same body profile position you have in the drops, so stick with it.

Go practice. Stay on your aerobars when behind him, because the neat thing is, the front man must get off aerobars in order to brake, so when they sit up, you can think 'uh oh', and sit up yourself and ready for anything.

Pairs TTing is fun! Good luck.
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Re: TT position

Postby Ant. » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:01 pm

ps.
This is me on my road bike...maybe you don't need clipon aerobars after all to look slippery!

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Re: TT position

Postby philip » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:04 pm

Looking awesome there Ant. I'm sure my frame geometry has something to do with it now, there's no way I could get my seat that much higher than my bars.

Thanks for the input guys - yep I think you're right Ant, I will point them up a bit more. I will have to see about putting them inwards a bit though, at the moment my computer is taking up all the space so can't do it without removing that which is a bit of a pain, I'd quite like to keep it on for timing.

Thanks TLL for the link to your thread, interesting. There was one article about TT fit that I read on the net that said elbow angle should be 90-110° and my arms looked to be more than that, though your position looks similar to mine. I will have to go out this weekend to give them a proper go, I think moving the forearm pads inwards a bit might help. It was really strange to put my hands back on the hoods after riding around for only 5 minutes in the car park, they felt ridiculously wide!
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Re: TT position

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:45 pm

Philip, your torso is way too high, look how much more wind you will be pushing than ant, who's torso is much lower. You have a spacer under the handlebars, so you can get a tad lower without any cost.

Can you borrow any stems, perhaps you can get your hands on a 12deg stem to get a bit lower again, also if its shorter, you might find it a bit more comfortable on your arms.

Leave the clip-ons on your bike, so you can have a bit of a practice before the TT, as the ride position is a little different and your muscles will need to adjust a little to this.
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Re: TT position

Postby twizzle » Wed Jan 27, 2010 7:57 pm

And tilting the aerobars up will drop the elbows and get him lower as well.
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Re: TT position

Postby philip » Wed Jan 27, 2010 8:20 pm

mikesbytes wrote:You have a spacer under the handlebars, so you can get a tad lower without any cost.

I don't think I can get it any lower - I have already removed 3 spacers (haven't got it cut yet):
Image
I'm not sure what angle stem that is, I will look into it and see if I can get one that drops lower, but I'm not sure it's going to make that much of a difference so will probably make do with how it's setup for now
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Re: TT position

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Jan 27, 2010 9:05 pm

I've seen some use an adjustable stem on their track bikes to get lower. No idea where to get them or the cost, I need one myself.

Where did you get your clip-ons? How much did they cost?
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Re: TT position

Postby Kev365428 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:37 am

Moved this thread to the time trial section.

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Re: TT position

Postby toolonglegs » Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:47 am

I wouldn't try going to low unless you have time to train in that new position...and get used to it.A couple of weeks at least.You will notice a huge difference just by using the clip ons.
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Re: TT position

Postby philip » Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:18 am

mikesbytes wrote:Where did you get your clip-ons? How much did they cost?

I got them from ebay, I was really lucky as there was a local seller selling the ones I wanted and I got them for a decent price. I got them for $150. Profile T2+ Cobra is the model I got. Wiggle have the same bars but the alloy version for ~$140, only a few grams heavier as far as I could tell. Compared to other bars these are very adjustable and sturdy.
toolonglegs wrote:I wouldn't try going to low unless you have time to train in that new position...and get used to it.A couple of weeks at least.You will notice a huge difference just by using the clip ons.

Yeah I'll take this advice, thanks - I'm only going to get a handful of rides in with the aero bars before the 7th.
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Re: TT position

Postby The_Fat_Controller » Thu Jan 28, 2010 11:48 am

I personally would say you just don't look comfortable and I think more riding with them because it doesn't matter if they offer a +10% because if your uncomfortable thats -20-30% so practise with them and you'll develop the position a bit better and work out where's rubbing and where's comfortable and where's not :wink:
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Re: TT position

Postby Ozchuck » Thu Jan 28, 2010 12:46 pm

oH BOY, now im excited for making some photos of my TT position! :D
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Re: TT position

Postby Sweeper59 » Thu Jan 28, 2010 1:28 pm

I don't know if you've read Cadel's recent book, but he states a number of times that 15 years of yoga has allowed him to get into a more aerodynamic TT position than most of his competition.
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Re: TT position

Postby Ant. » Thu Jan 28, 2010 7:38 pm

Sweeper59 wrote:I don't know if you've read Cadel's recent book, but he states a number of times that 15 years of yoga has allowed him to get into a more aerodynamic TT position than most of his competition.

Really? I think his position is quite ordinary even when compared to Cancellara/Wiggins/Cam Meyer, let alone Zabriskie/Leipheimer.

But I don't have wind tunnel eyes.
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Re: TT position

Postby twizzle » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:33 pm

Last year, Canyon had issues with getting the bars low enough for Cadel on his road bike. As delivered, he wasn't happy. Not sure if they did a custom stem or adjustable stem for him in the end.
Last edited by twizzle on Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TT position

Postby twizzle » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:33 pm

Ant. wrote:
Sweeper59 wrote:I don't know if you've read Cadel's recent book, but he states a number of times that 15 years of yoga has allowed him to get into a more aerodynamic TT position than most of his competition.

Really? I think his position is quite ordinary even when compared to Cancellara/Wiggins/Cam Meyer, let alone Zabriskie/Leipheimer.

But I don't have wind tunnel eyes.


I think it was his road bike, not his TT bike, that had the extreme position.
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Re: TT position

Postby toolonglegs » Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:58 pm

No it was his TT bike...they had to cut a hole in the head tube and mount the stem between the top and bottom bearings.
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Re: TT position

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:18 pm

Back to the land of mere mortals, I believe that yoga helps me ride in a more aerodynamic position.

Philip, is there anything you can inexpensively do to get your torso a little lower?
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Re: TT position

Postby twizzle » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:36 pm

toolonglegs wrote:No it was his TT bike...they had to cut a hole in the head tube and mount the stem between the top and bottom bearings.


Holy crap - that's low!

Boonen would like that bike, perfect position for sniffing the white lines.
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Re: TT position

Postby twizzle » Thu Jan 28, 2010 9:36 pm

toolonglegs wrote:No it was his TT bike...they had to cut a hole in the head tube and mount the stem between the top and bottom bearings.


Holy crap - that's low!

Boonen would like that bike, perfect position for sniffing the white lines.
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