40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

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40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

Postby Missy24 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:25 am

Hey All

So I just said yes to a 40km bike leg of a Tri in Mooloolaba.

I don't know my team mates, I know they are Todd and Chris, one will swim and one will run.

The tri is on the 21st of March... I have maybe six weeks.

How do I train to make myself better for this one event?

Missy

P.S. Mods don't you dare move this! Nobody goes to the Tri section... and I'm not doing the other two parts so its kinda a time trial.
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by BNA » Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:59 am

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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:59 am

In a nutshell, its power vs resistance. So increase power and reduce resistance.

The time trailists such as ant will provide better details, but here's a start
Power
1. Stop training in groups and ride by yourself, you need to be use to riding in the wind.
2. You will need to adapt to the new riding position, practice riding in it
3. The course you are riding, what do you know about it, what adaptations to your current riding skills are required.
Resistance
Most Resistance is due to air. Some of the things you can do to reduce this with little cost are;
1. Lower your body. Your torso is biggest wind drag out there, probably a 20% saving
2. buy some clipon's. gives you about another 8% reduction
3. Wear the tightest top you have, assuming you don't own a skin suit
4. If you know someone who has an aero helmet then borrow it, but for one ride I wouldn't go to the expense

Most of all, enjoy your time trail
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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

Postby Sweeper59 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:02 pm

Missy,

As you would be aware, you can't draft, team ride or get any assistance. Therefore, you will basically be doing a time trial over the 40 kms.

From what I've read from your posts, you do plenty of k's on your bike, so you should be fit enough. If you can average 30+ kph for the distance, you should be OK.

I've done the bike leg of a number of triathlons, from 25 km's thru to half ironman (90km's). I had a sleepless night before my first triathlon - worried that I couldn't hack the pace, but I averaged almost 35 kph, which was better than any of my training sessions. These days, I just try to sit on 30 - 35 kmh (depending on conditions), and not worry about what's going on around me.

A couple of things to put you at ease:
1. you will be riding against athletes doing the full event who won't be fresh after the swim, and also saving themselves for the run
2. you will be riding against competitors of ALL ages - at least 50% will be older than you
3. there's always a rider up ahead of you to try to catch
4. adrenalin on the day will add about 2kmh to your average speed
5. the roads will be closed - meaning no traffic to contend with = another 2kmh improvement on your training sessions
6. the crowds will cheer you along the entire route.

Don't worry - you'll have a great time, and enjoy the event
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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

Postby fixed » Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:43 pm

I ride regularly with ATTA here in Perth. I am one of the slower riders which is fine, I race myself.

My biggest hurdle is mental. Keeping focus, keeping power going through the pedals and remaining efficient.

I would advise you familiarise yourself with the course. Find parts of the course where where you can focus on maintaining a consistent pace. Uphill gradients change your speed and power, so try to find gearing that allows a high cadence and not compromise speed, or finding you blow up.

I use a polar hrm with cadence, and dont worry too much about speed, my results back this up :) . I try to keep cadence above 90 and heart rate just below my anaerobic threshold which I know is 170. YMMV

I also find counting pedal strokes to an odd number say 23, helps as I then count on alternate feet. I am not sure I have explained this. It certainly helped last Sunday doing the 82km ITT at Wandi. 2 and 1/2 hours of number counting. Quite like a mantra.

Best of all, just enjoy yourself, put in a good effort and dont wipe yourself out.
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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

Postby twizzle » Wed Feb 03, 2010 12:52 pm

It's all about perceived rate of exertion - maintain an effort for the time, don't redline and don't cruise. Easier said than done. :twisted:

Pre-powertap, the only TT I did I paced via HR, but now I know what I'm doing I know I went too hard at the start and backed off at the end, because HR should rise slowly over time.
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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

Postby Ant. » Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:01 pm

Go out and do some threshold intervals.
What's a threshold interval? Well, pretend you're doing a 20min time trial. Aim to hurt. After 20mins, pedal easily for 5mins, wipe out the memory of the past 20mins, and do it again 8)
You'll get fit. 2x20s are great fun, in a sadistic kind of way - you'll hurt, which means it's working. Probably better to go a little easier in training and complete the 2x20s than it is to go to hard and throw in the towel 10mins into the second interval.
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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

Postby sogood » Wed Feb 03, 2010 1:41 pm

Ant. wrote:Go out and do some threshold intervals.
What's a threshold interval? Well, pretend you're doing a 20min time trial. Aim to hurt. After 20mins, pedal easily for 5mins, wipe out the memory of the past 20mins, and do it again 8)
You'll get fit. 2x20s are great fun, in a sadistic kind of way - you'll hurt, which means it's working. Probably better to go a little easier in training and complete the 2x20s than it is to go to hard and throw in the towel 10mins into the second interval.

That's the way. Sweet spot training allows you to do more with less. ;)
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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

Postby Missy24 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:12 pm

@Mike... what do you mean by clipons? I googled this and I didn't get much in return?

The course is flat, I mapped it out and apart from a couple of 1-2% gradient rises of 1-2km its nothing that I haven't ridden before, nothing that really worried me.

@fixed I don't get to see ride the course before hand, so it'll be foreign and feel like the longest ride there ever was, I like knowing courses but its not working out that way..

@Sweeper.. thanks hadn't read the rules, good to know, will also go and read the rules now. And I LOVE point 6!!!


sogood wrote:
Ant. wrote:Go out and do some threshold intervals.
What's a threshold interval? Well, pretend you're doing a 20min time trial. Aim to hurt. After 20mins, pedal easily for 5mins, wipe out the memory of the past 20mins, and do it again 8)
You'll get fit. 2x20s are great fun, in a sadistic kind of way - you'll hurt, which means it's working. Probably better to go a little easier in training and complete the 2x20s than it is to go to hard and throw in the towel 10mins into the second interval.

That's the way. Sweet spot training allows you to do more with less. ;)


Sounds like fun... why didn't I think of this earlier?

Other question... can I stop climbing? or should I stop? I'm doing a lot of climbing practice for my trip back up Donna... and someone mentioned Buller.

You guys are really great.

Thanks for your wisdom!

Missy
:wink:
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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

Postby sogood » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:20 pm

Missy24 wrote:Other question... can I stop climbing? or should I stop? I'm doing a lot of climbing practice for my trip back up Donna... and someone mentioned Buller.

Climbing is all about power to weight ratio while 2x20 is all about developing power in the most efficient and least painful manner. So theoretically you can just do 2x20 and then hit the big mountains. But truth be said, there are still differences and I'd keep your mountain climbs going. Bear in mind though that climbing is actually a non-cheating form of long intervals (like 2x20). Due to the gradient, you are not allowed to ease off through out and is consistent with the demands of a good 2x20 session.

I would just mix 2x20 with your mtn climbs on different days. The other issue is, many of the "mountains" in Aust don't give you a consistent 20+ mins of climbing. So it may be better to do 2 sessions of 2x20 and with 1 long climbing endurance ride a week, along with a few other recovery or other specific rides.
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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

Postby Missy24 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:23 pm

sogood wrote:
Missy24 wrote:Other question... can I stop climbing? or should I stop? I'm doing a lot of climbing practice for my trip back up Donna... and someone mentioned Buller.

Climbing is all about power to weight ratio while 2x20 is all about developing power in the most efficient and least painful manner. So theoretically you can just do 2x20 and then hit the big mountains. But truth be said, there are still differences and I'd keep your mountain climbs going. Bear in mind though that climbing is actually a non-cheating form of long intervals (like 2x20). Due to the gradient, you are not allowed to ease off through out and is consistent with the demands of a good 2x20 session.

I would just mix 2x20 with your mtn climbs on different days. The other issue is, many of the "mountains" in Aust don't give you a consistent 20+ mins of climbing. So it may be better to do 2 sessions of 2x20 and with 1 long climbing endurance ride a week, along with a few other recovery or other specific rides.

Ok cool, I'm waiting for a friend of a friend from the QIS to email me with a more detailed program, so I don't get side tracked and I have something that I can follow, without being all over the place.

I work better when my environment is structured.
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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

Postby philip » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:25 pm

Missy24 wrote:@Mike... what do you mean by clipons? I googled this and I didn't get much in return?

"clip on aero bars" will give you better results. I recently bought a set of them for the TT I'm doing this weekend, see my thread just below. They let you get lower and bring your arms in so your front on profile is a lot smaller - quite a big aero benefit.

There are lots of aero bars around, some a lot cheaper than others. After a bit of research I found that you really want some that are adjustable (forwards/backwards and sideways position of the elbow pads). I got the Profile T2+ cobra bars for $150 from ebay, you can get the alloy version of the same model (only slightly heavier) from wiggle for about $140.
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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

Postby Missy24 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:30 pm

philip wrote:
Missy24 wrote:@Mike... what do you mean by clipons? I googled this and I didn't get much in return?

"clip on aero bars" will give you better results. I recently bought a set of them for the TT I'm doing this weekend, see my thread just below. They let you get lower and bring your arms in so your front on profile is a lot smaller - quite a big aero benefit.

There are lots of aero bars around, some a lot cheaper than others. After a bit of research I found that you really want some that are adjustable (forwards/backwards and sideways position of the elbow pads). I got the Profile T2+ cobra bars for $150 from ebay, you can get the alloy version of the same model (only slightly heavier) from wiggle for about $140.

Thanks Phillip.

Will I need to change the overall positioning of my bike do you think? Did you have to? or you just change your positioning?
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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

Postby Parrott » Wed Feb 03, 2010 4:02 pm

Get some clip ons as has been already mentioned soon so you can get them set up and adapt to them. It will take a bit of experimentation to find a comfortable fast position and it will change over time as you become more flexible, so the sooner you start the better you will be. The 2 x20's have been working for me but I don't do them at race pace, can't keep the motivation if I have to smash myself every time I get on the bike. Do them hard enough so that you are uncomfortable and breathing reasonably hard but not about to bark up a lung as you should be at the end of your time trial :P :lol:
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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

Postby Missy24 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:17 pm

So I've organised some clipons, will pick up tomorrow from LBS, not going to go Carbon cause the trip north will cost enough... LBS bagged the showtime out of me for participating in a tri but that's ok cause I do love them :wink:
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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:23 pm

Don't know if they are any good, but they are cheap

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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

Postby damhooligan » Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:20 pm

Missy24 wrote: LBS bagged the s*** out of me for participating in a tri but that's ok cause I do love them :wink:


What did they say??
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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

Postby Missy24 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 6:53 pm

damhooligan wrote:
Missy24 wrote: LBS bagged the s*** out of me for participating in a tri but that's ok cause I do love them :wink:


What did they say??

Stuff... they may have mentioned that I'm awesome at some point :wink:
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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

Postby Sweeper59 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:35 pm

Missy24 wrote:
damhooligan wrote:
Missy24 wrote: LBS bagged the s*** out of me for participating in a tri but that's ok cause I do love them :wink:


What did they say??

Stuff... they may have mentioned that I'm awesome at some point :wink:


Our LBS's couldn't afford to give triathletes a hard time......given that the local triathlon club has far more members than the local cycling club. :D
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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

Postby Missy24 » Mon Feb 08, 2010 2:38 pm

Sweeper59 wrote:
Missy24 wrote:
damhooligan wrote:What did they say??

Stuff... they may have mentioned that I'm awesome at some point :wink:


Our LBS's couldn't afford to give triathletes a hard time......given that the local triathlon club has far more members than the local cycling club. :D

I'm ok with my LBS taking the piss out of me... bunch of girlies... I hope none of them are on here
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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

Postby fixed » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:24 pm

How is the training going?
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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

Postby Missy24 » Tue Feb 16, 2010 8:28 am

fixed wrote:How is the training going?

Its going okay, spending a lot of time riding alone at the moment which is something I'm not used to... me and my clock are becoming very good friends.

I've been doing a lot of interval work on the bike and it seems to be improving me rather quickly.

I'm trying to drop 5kg at the same time, its happening slowly... I should get the number that I want by March.

Next weekend I'm going to look for 40km of straight flat road and see what I can do :wink:

Thanks for checking in fixed!
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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

Postby fixed » Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:46 pm

ATTA here in Perth have quite a few peri-urban circuits as well as out and back routes. There is one point to point that requires bus logistics or a ride back to the start.

No need to search out 40km of straight flat road, for one its boring. Second just ride the Nullabor, that should fix your needs! :wink:
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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... please!!

Postby Missy24 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:57 pm

fixed wrote: Second just ride the Nullabor, that should fix your needs! :wink:

Yeah I'll see if my mum can drop me off!
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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... plea

Postby Missy24 » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:13 pm

1 week to go... am I ready? mmm maybe :lol:

Tri bars? Don't like them, will ride without, not 100% confident with them... don't wanna crash in QLD...

I'm gonna pretend its beach road... complete b**** that you can't have music with you!
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Re: 40km Time Trial... sort of... I need your wisdom... plea

Postby Parrott » Sun Mar 21, 2010 8:04 pm

Missy24 wrote:Tri bars? Don't like them, will ride without, not 100% confident with them... don't wanna crash in QLD...



Fair enough but they were worth 20-30 secs over 8 ks for me. 2 1/2 minutes over 40 k is a fair bit.
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