Choosing a TENT?n Single skin or double?

All about touring, whether you are a local or visiting from overseas.

Choosing a TENT?n Single skin or double?

Postby Davekyn » Tue Aug 21, 2007 8:51 pm

Choosing a TENT? Single skin or double? should I by both?
Hi,
I was thinking about getting a single skinned water proof tent with 4 breathable holes…2 high/2 low. It’s a very light tent, but I was wondering how much trouble I might run into using it in our hot Australian summer conditions… It only weighs about 1kg

Other than that, the alternative is a double skin 2 man with the second skin an actually fly. It weighs around 2.6kg…and offers a little more room.

Saving the weight would be good & I was looking at camping out for only around 3-4 nights. I don’t have much experience in this field and was wondering If someone could comment on it.

I wish to carry as little as possible, but don’t want to spend most of my time waking up wet and drying my tent out all day…

Thanks in advance.
User avatar
Davekyn
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:45 pm

by BNA » Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:22 pm

BNA
 

Postby heavymetal » Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:22 pm

I use a tent that is mostly fly net, with an outer fly. In the hot weather I leave the outer skin off. In rain I put the outer skin on.

I need to get another tent. The reason is that over here in the sand the tent pegs don't stay in.

Make sure you get a free standing tent if you plan on camping anywhere that won't accept tent pegs (rock or sand).

The light weight hiker tents seem to be the lightest and most suitable for cycle touring.

Kev.
There is only one BicycleWA.
heavymetal
Super Mod
Super Mod
 
Posts: 1381
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:32 pm

Postby Davekyn » Wed Aug 22, 2007 7:42 am

Thanks Kev,
A good point about the tent pegs. I'll mostly wish to pitch on soft ground but knowing my luck, i'll probably hit rock anyways.
I checked out "light weight hiker tents on google (au) and got heaps of hit...THANKS!...

Some of the tents look a bit pricy, but I can see why. The quality & design have come a long way. I started looking at ebay and although a few odd ones seem to imitate the right designs, they are still twice the weight.

So far I have been looking between the:

The North Face Tadpole 23 Tent 2-Person 3-Season
It comes with a fly and looks weather proof.

The North Face Vector 22 Tent 2-Person 3-Season
This is regarded as a good alrounder but does not mention on weather proof

The prices seem fair enough for the quality...Ebay seemed a bit scary when checking it's tent DETAILS out pluss the weight.

I know many people are complaining that these so called two man tents are still two small for two people, however I am only 172cm and I will only be sharig it with my 10 year old son...untill he feels comftable enough to cary his own tent.

Once again...Thanks Kev
User avatar
Davekyn
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:45 pm

Postby LuckyPierre » Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:09 am

I've found that it's hard to get a single skin tent (with it's weight advantages) that is also robust, keeps out the rain and ventilated enough for summer.
In our Scout troop we mainly use double skinned Salewa tents for hiking and 'whatever's on special' medium sized (typically the supposed '4 man' size) double skinned tents for camps where we've got transport. It's not worth 'over-investing' in those ones because they cop a fair bit of abuse and almost any repair costs about as much as a new one.
I'm looking at bike touring options, but not really hard at the moment (too much else on).
Litespeed Classic - 3Al/2.5V titanium tube set, Record 9-speed groupset, Open Corsa Evo CX
Alchemy Diablo - Columbus Zonal tubing, Ultegra 9-speed groupset, UltraGatorskins
Gitane Rocks T1 - U6 tubing, Deore/XT groupset, CrossMarks
User avatar
LuckyPierre
 
Posts: 1432
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:37 pm
Location: Canberra, ACT

Postby Davekyn » Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:49 pm

Yes, I do believe I will go for a double skin tent and leave the fly off when not needed. Untill I can read the weather conditions better & given to the windy weather we seem to be getting, not to mention the "unpredictable nature" of it these days, I'll leave the single skins alone for now.

I think I'd also stick with a small two man tent even If I was not to share it as I like to have a little space for my things inside and room to change clothes in reasonable conmfort.

Some of those tents I mentioned are only around 4pounds...Thats unbelievable 4 a two man tent with a fly! No doubt a small two man tent, but none the less perfect for some of us shorter guys :wink:
User avatar
Davekyn
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:45 pm

Postby Aushiker » Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:05 pm

G'day

I have used single and double skin tents and the main issue with single skin tents is condensation, at least here in WA. My favourite tent at the moment is my Big Sky Products Evolution 1P.


Regards
Andrew
User avatar
Aushiker
 
Posts: 20409
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA

Postby Davekyn » Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:58 pm

Sweet As! Excellent details...Thanks Andrew.
User avatar
Davekyn
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:45 pm

Postby tbcool » Thu Aug 23, 2007 1:58 pm

definitely go for the doubles.
tbcool
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 4:08 pm

Postby geoffs » Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:16 am

Unless you can afford a Bibler, go for a double skin.
I had a look at the North face tadpole as a couple we were travelling with in British Columbia were using one and it seemed good but it was to small for me at 187cm.
We have been using a Macpac Apollo which has recently died from over use. The next tent we will be getting is the Salewa Sierra Leone Ultra tent. The vestibules look much better that the Apollo's and when it's raining it's much better to be able to keep the bulk of your gear outside so the the inner stays clean and dry.
Having a mostly freestanding tent is important as it makes it possible to put the tent together under some shelter when it's raining and move it to where you want to pitch it so the inside stayer drier.

Pegs. The best pegs on the planet are the titanium nails that REI sells. These are worth their weight in gold. I can get these in when steel pegs are bending. They hold well enough in soft ground but if the ground is rocky or hard these are fantastic.
We use our tent for the big rides and for longer tours so sees a at least 4 weeks of use each year.

Cheers

Geoff
User avatar
geoffs
 
Posts: 324
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:16 pm
Location: Ashbury

Postby Aushiker » Wed Aug 29, 2007 10:11 am

geoffs wrote:Unless you can afford a Bibler, go for a double skin.

Bibbler is effectively no more. They are now part of Black Diamond and are coming out as Black Diamond.

Regards
Andrew
User avatar
Aushiker
 
Posts: 20409
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA

Postby Davekyn » Wed Aug 29, 2007 6:28 pm

I intend to get the tent soon...not this Tue comming but the next one. So far I have opted for the MSR ZOID 1. It seem very light (1.1-1.3kg) and I heard a guy packed in half its size again in a stuff bag.

I'm only 172cm (5foot 7inch) and appantly other guys around my hight where able to fit thier back pack in...I could always do up a water tight cover under the fly at a reachable distance.

I'm trying to go ultra light and thus far, the MSR Zoid looks AOK...around $400.00...

please keep the input comming in...I really do apreciate it.
So far I got a Therm-a-rest 3/4 inflatable to fit in my pack and a summer sleeping bag that is almost as small as a fist...if I can get the Zoid to pack up small...I will live like a king for a few nights, as I fly down the roads from town to town without giant paniers to slow me down. I,ll probably use a topeak rear rack with just a MTX trunk bag (without paniers)...I'm looking into solar at the moment for a PDA I,m about to buy....but thats another post comming up...Thanks again guys :wink:
User avatar
Davekyn
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:45 pm

Postby geoffs » Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:17 am

Having a decent sized tent though is the thing that makes wet weather bearable. If you are intending to travel with your son then being comfortable will make it much more enjoyable for him.
After saying that I just had a look at the specs for the Zoid 2 and it looks good. I haven't bought the Salewa yet so let me know what you think of the Zoid.

Cheers

Geoff
User avatar
geoffs
 
Posts: 324
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 9:16 pm
Location: Ashbury

Postby Davekyn » Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:23 am

for sure...will be two weeks though. I know what you mean about space, but I will be going solo at first. My son has a lot of riding to do before he gets to the overnight stage. I will just take the car with a bigger tent to sus out spots with my kid.

I am sure the quality of the Zoid one will reflect on the Zoid 2...will keep you posted...

As for rain......I can handle working all day in it...I'll probably secure the bike and gear, & go bushwalking all day in the rain, just to pass the time...especially in summer :wink:
User avatar
Davekyn
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:45 pm

Postby Aushiker » Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:35 am

Davekyn wrote:I intend to get the tent soon...not this Tue comming but the next one. So far I have opted for the MSR ZOID 1. It seem very light (1.1-1.3kg) and I heard a guy packed in half its size again in a stuff bag.

Reaslistically the weight will be more likely closer to the claimed pack weight of 1.5 kg and probably more likely 1.6 kg. Manufacturer's are well known for being dodgy with their reported minimum weights ... often leaving out pegs, poles etc to report lower weights.

It is a nylon fly IIRC, not a sinlyon fly so will be on the heavier side. Definatelly not ultra-lightweight.

Regards
Andrew
Last edited by Aushiker on Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Aushiker
 
Posts: 20409
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA

Postby Davekyn » Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:58 pm

Fair enough...I guess all the other heavier ones will also be heavier too?
POINT TAKEN>>>I just spent more time looking at your recomended tent....WOW...I see what you mean...I will look to see if I can find it in Australia and How Much?
The 2006 Big Sky Products Evolution 1P Shelter
Product Details:
The 2006 Big Sky Products Evolution 1P Shelter is a three season free-standing lightweight double wall single person tent with a single entrance. The rain fly and floor is made of Silnylon. The inner is made of no-see-um mesh. The significant feature of the Evolution 1P is its length, 213 cm (84"). Its peak height is 99 cm (39"). It has a single vestibule on the same side as the entrance to the tent. There is also a small window on the foot end of the tent. Within the tent has an small pocket on one side and a larger pocket, referred to as a clothes hamper by the manufacturer on the other side.

Specifications:
Manufacturer's specified weight: The manufacturer gives a weight of 1.02 kg (2lbs 4 oz) for the shelter, fly and carbon poles and 1.16 kg (2lbs 9 oz) for the shelter, fly and aluminium poles.
My weight is reported for the configuration that I carry the tent in, i.e., stuff sack, rain fly, inner and poles. At the time of writing the titanium stakes have yet to be shipped. This weight will be adjusted once they are received.
With carbon poles - 1.08 kg (2 lbs 6 oz)
With aluminium poles - 1.20 kg (2 lbs 10 oz)
For those interested or who wish to make up their own combination of components, the individual weights are:
Stuff sack - 34 g (1.2 oz)
Fly or outer - 370 g (13 oz)
Inner - 461 g (1 lb)
Aluminium poles - 336 g (12 oz)
Carbon poles - 212 g (7.5 oz)
Titanium stakes - NA
Guy ropes - NA

I will have to re-evaluate getting this tent as EVERYONE is complain how that rain fly zipper gets caught evertime they use it! What a pain in the ass!
User avatar
Davekyn
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:45 pm

Postby Aushiker » Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:10 pm

Davekyn wrote:Fair enough...I guess all the other heavier ones will also be heavier too?
POINT TAKEN>>>I just spent more time looking at your recomended tent....WOW...I see what you mean...I will look to see if I can find it in Australia and How Much?


You can't buy it from a retailer here. Australian retailers don't know what light is (except for the few selling GoLite gear). You can get it directly from Bob at Big Sky but I suspect you will have a wait.

Another serious option is Henry Shire's Tarptents, but you really need to be comfortable with lightweight camping gear. Take a look at http://www.tarptent.com/ and in particular the Rainbow. Henry ships to Australia without dramas. There are a few of his tents here in WA now.

Andrew
User avatar
Aushiker
 
Posts: 20409
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA

Postby Davekyn » Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:14 am

I got to go, so will be quick,
I am alsmost converted to the Contrail Tarpent...I know its a single skin, but It would seem with such tents, the way in which you set them up is the secret to using them in whatever conditions.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthr ... t=Contrail
Will keep you posted on my investigations...Thanks again Andrew!
User avatar
Davekyn
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 2:45 pm

Postby BigClimbs » Mon Sep 24, 2007 9:32 pm

I've used plenty of tents, from the small 2 man type up. For cycle touring in the bush I normally use a 3 man tent even when there is only 2 of us. Total weight is 4.5kg and can be divided nicely into three 1.5kg portions which is nice if you've got three heading out. This is a large tent comfortable for three adults but even for 2 people cycling through the Aust alps, 2+kg each is not much of a problem.

The ultra-light 2 man tents save weight by deleting things like vestibules, zippers and ventilation. They end up being uncomfortable pretty much all of the time because they are small and poorly ventilated and have little space to store your stuff out of the rain. Single skin tents will compound your problems with more condensation.

Even though its just you and you're son I'd think about getting at least a larger size double skin 2 person tent with vestibules, zippers and ventilation at both ends. It'll weigh a bit more (probably around 2.5kg) but here is the upside:

- when the weather is superb and you're feeling tired, just use the fly;
- when the weather is bad, you'll have plenty of space to keep your packs dry, cook etc as well as have a bit of stretching room inside;
- when the weather is warmer you'll be able to keep the insects out but still have good ventilation and minimal condensation - those ultra light 2 man tents can have really poor ventilation, and even up in the mountains with sub zero temperatures overnight can be really hot, particularly after a hard days cycling.
BigClimbs
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:38 pm

Postby Aushiker » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:37 pm

BigClimbs wrote:The ultra-light 2 man tents save weight by deleting things like vestibules, zippers and ventilation. They end up being uncomfortable pretty much all of the time because they are small and poorly ventilated and have little space to store your stuff out of the rain. Single skin tents will compound your problems with more condensation.

I am curious as to your basis for this conclusion. Given that ultra-light tents are not common in Australia what ultra-light tents have you used which have given you such a bad experience?

I use lightweight tents (my one person is around 1.1 kg for example) and a number of my fellow walkers use sub-kg tents. Modern light weight tents are more likely to use materials like silnylon (instead of more traditional nylons), carbon fibre poles, titanium pegs and better designs to get the weight down.

As to your comment on condensation, ANY poorly ventilated tent will give condensation problems. The difference between single wall and double skin tents is that you have a mesh between you and the water. The tent will still gather as much condensation with the same level of ventilation just less is likely to drop on you or your bag.

BTW what three person tent do you use?

I would also make a comment, irrespective of whether you are walking or riding a bike, weight is weight which has to be pulled or carried up hill and downhill. Personally I would rather have to carry less as I still have to get it up the next hill. If I can get away with a base weight of 10 kg then I am better off than the bloke on the bike with a 20 kg base weight load, all else being equal. I know which load I would rather be riding with at the end of a day's 80 km ride.

Regards
Andrew
User avatar
Aushiker
 
Posts: 20409
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA

Postby BigClimbs » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:01 pm

Aushiker wrote:Given that ultra-light tents are not common in Australia what ultra-light tents have you used which have given you such a bad experience?

Mate, I don't want to get in an argument with you over specific tents, I'm just trying to help the guy out with some suggestions arising from quite a few years experience. I haven't probably used any 'ultra-light' tents if sub 1kg is your definition of ultra light.

I recently used a Mont 2-man tent that only had a side opening vestibule and found it too poorly ventilated and if you were the guy on the far side of the opening you really felt trapped. It was a bit too comfy for 2 guys.

The three man tent I use is an expedition plus. Its never let me down, is very fast to erect and you can do so in gale force wind. It is very durable and has withstood plenty of abuse. But its 4.5kg.

I agree that you want to carry as little weight as possible but there are some things where saving weight can be a real false economy. Extra weight for no additional benefit is obviously a waste of energy, but if you get some additional features then it can be effort well spent. Its a bit like those couple of 150gm blocks of gourmet chocolate that you take and don't tell anyone about. Its a PITA on the climbs, but on day 3 after dinner in the middle of nowhere and you hand it round the smiles would make it worth it even if it weighed an extra 3kg.

The guy's wanting to go camping with his 10 year old son. I've been on some super light weight endurance rides where all we take is an extra set of thermals and space blanket and a couple of large garbage bags. Its good to say you've ridden 300+km's, climbed 7500m in the mountains in two days, but comfortable it ain't. When I take my 8 year old I carry heaps more weight - extra food (treats etc.) extra clothes and a really thick 4cm thermarest, and inflatable pillow etc. for comfort but that's what you need to do to keep a kid happy. They don't like it if you're roughing it too much. They'll go alright the first night on novelty value alone, but if the're stuck in a rainy tent the next day you'll hear about it. You can also easily carry that extra weight because you're average 8-10 year old is not Lance Armstrong.

So, let me rephrase my advice. Get the lightest tent you can as you don't want to carry extra weight if you don't have to, BUT make sure you're not making to many sacrifices to get the weight down because you may well make your camping much less enjoyable. I would not consider getting any tent that did not have enough space to:

- comfortably sleep you and your son;
- store all your gear out of the weather (in a vestibule or in the tent with you);
- allow you to cook out of the weather (in the vestibule with your gear now transfered into the tent while you're cooking); and
- allow you to get up for a call of nature without overly affecting (like having to climb over/under/through) your camping companion.
BigClimbs
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:38 pm

Postby Aushiker » Wed Sep 26, 2007 12:06 pm

BigClimbs wrote:
Aushiker wrote:Given that ultra-light tents are not common in Australia what ultra-light tents have you used which have given you such a bad experience?

Mate, I don't want to get in an argument with you over specific tents, I'm just trying to help the guy out with some suggestions arising from quite a few years experience. I haven't probably used any 'ultra-light' tents if sub 1kg is your definition of ultra light.

Neither do I want to get into an argument. I was just interested in your experience which led you to make such an emphatic statement. Nothing more nothing less.

BTW it is not my definition of ultralight, rather it is reflective of the general bushwalking/hiking community and the manufacturers in the field.



Cheers
Andrew
User avatar
Aushiker
 
Posts: 20409
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA

Postby BigClimbs » Fri Sep 28, 2007 7:38 am

Yeah, now worries. I didn't mean to sound too emphatic, but I'm yet to come across a sub 2kg tent that doesn't involve too many sacrifices. If you've got any ideas I'd love to hear them? The other thing that I like in a tent is the ability to sit up (if only in the highest point of the roof) without rubbing your head on the tent. The dome types are pretty good for that, but the sloping highside/lowside types makes this a little more difficult even though the total height of the tent is the same. Also the dome style let you sleep 2 people facing opposite directions which makes things feel a little roomier.

I was recently in Katmandu store and they had a Cisalpine setup which is a sort of roomier 2 man tent twin pole dome style, two vesibules, plenty of ventilation BUT its about 3.3kg which is hardly light. It would be perfect if it was 1.3kg.

Hey Davekyn - did you get the Contrail Tarpent? What's it like? Taken it out yet?
BigClimbs
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 2:38 pm

Postby sidy » Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:32 pm

Hope its ok to butt in on this thread. :D

I'm looking for recommendations on a tent suitable for a 1 year tour of Oz.
Ideally a 2 man in the 2-3kg range. Most important feature is durability.

Also looking for suggestions on a sleeping bag.

Can I buy in Perth or should I bring them with me.

Thanks
sidy
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:21 pm

Postby Aushiker » Sun Sep 30, 2007 7:10 pm

sidy wrote:Can I buy in Perth or should I bring them with me.
You can buy in Perth. Suggest you talk to Mike Woods at Mountain Designs at their city store. He should look after you.

Andrew
User avatar
Aushiker
 
Posts: 20409
Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
Location: Fremantle, WA


Return to Touring Australia

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


PM Issues
Known Bug - error message displayed when sending PM's caused by tapatalk. Read more


Popular Bike Shops
Wiggle Wiggle UK
Ground Effect Ground Effect NZ
Ebay Ebay AU
Chain Reaction Cycles CRC UK

“Bicycles BNA Twitter
“Bicycles BNA Facebook
“Google+ BNA Google+
“Bicycles BNA Newsletter

> FREE BNA Stickers
> BNA Cycling Kit