Bell gripe
- BrownOnionThighs
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Bell gripe
Postby BrownOnionThighs » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:47 am
On my usual 10km commute to work today (Niddrie -> Parkville, in Melbourne), at about 5:40 am I was passing a construction site and a truck was parked right across the bike lane (no probs here, he was just waiting to turn into the site).
As I approached the truck, I had a look over my shoulder and started to move out. Suddenly out of nowhere comes a flash of red and white spandex - I saw the other cyclist just in time and barely avoided a collision. This guy had decided that silently passing me with about 30cm of clearance on my right would be a good idea just as I was approaching a truck which was straddled across the bike lane.
So I pursued, hoping for a red light so I could have it out with the guy. Surely enough, I got my wish. So I ask him, do you know how close I came to hitting you back there? And he reassures me, don't worry about it could happen to anyone. He thinks this is my fault? I start to tell him that he ought to ring his bell as he passes someone like that, and I notice how sublimely stylish and bell-free his handlebar is. Now he's saying something about, when you do as much riding as I do ... I have a !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! moment. Me; you need to stop trying to be so cool and get one of these dorky things, ding-ding.
The moral of the story is, spandex does not = experience. I'm doing ~80km a week, solo, in traffic; all wearing shorts and a fluoro singlet - no ballet gear. I am almost killed on a daily-weekly basis - excuse me, but riding with a pack of 20 on the weekend (while I'm sure it has its moments) is not the same as fending for yourself on a commute in heavy traffic; so don't bother counting pack riding as traffic experience.
If you are going to commute, get a f***ing bell, and ring it to let people know you are going to pop up unexpectedly. You can even take it off on the weekends so the other boys don't tease you and hurt your feelings. Nobody will tell them that during the week you are packing an ungainly mantelpiece.
Please, it's enough that we have to deal with so many bad drivers.
End vent.
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby Max » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:56 am
Max
Cycling is sometimes like bobbing for apples in a bucket full of dicks. - SydGuy
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby BrownOnionThighs » Thu Mar 11, 2010 7:28 am
Awesome quote.Max wrote:+ lots. I think BikeSnob said it best when he said, "Cycling's enemy is not the car; it is the idiot. And idiots travel by foot, car, and bicycle". Sounds like you just met an idiot.
Max
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby m@ » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:09 am
However, it is up to you to check that the lane you are moving into is clear before changing lanes. 'He came out of nowhere' sounds an awful lot like what smidsy motorists say when they fail to shoulder-check (or fail to see a bike right in front of 'em ).
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby 318ute » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:23 am
mate I hear you loud and clear and have had similar issues, I commute 40kms per day now and that's almost ever working day and I have had similar drama's.
There was a thread elsewhere on this forum about passing and giving some warning either bell or audible "passing" or "On your right" and it's interesting the varied responses..
Bottom line as stated, it's not just motor vehicles we have to worry about but in my opinion the 60-70% of cyclists who have little idea of some kind of ettiquette when passing a fellow road user.
The clothing and cost of the machine does not = safety and comonsense.
Merida 905, Giant Xtc2, Trek 3900
- BrownOnionThighs
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby BrownOnionThighs » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:31 am
Fair enough, but ...m@ wrote:Sound like he should have read the situation better - it's definitely good practice to give an audible warning (calling 'bike passing right' etc is at least as good as ringing a bell IMO) and given more clearance if passing at speed.
However, it is up to you to check that the lane you are moving into is clear before changing lanes. 'He came out of nowhere' sounds an awful lot like what smidsy motorists say when they fail to shoulder-check (or fail to see a bike right in front of 'em ).
I did head-check. But in a head check, I'm not looking directly behind me, or behind and to the left of me - I'm not looking at the lane I'm in, I'm looking at the lane I'm going to. There's plenty of unsighted space behind me for a bike to be sitting in. And that's where this guy must have been.
If I was in the habit of moving from the bike lane to the road without head-checking, I would be a long faded, ruddy stain on the bitumen, not a disgruntled poster.
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby simonn » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:24 am
I didn't see him your honour!BrownOnionThighs wrote: I did head-check. But in a head check, I'm not looking directly behind me, or behind and to the left of me - I'm not looking at the lane I'm in, I'm looking at the lane I'm going to. There's plenty of unsighted space behind me for a bike to be sitting in. And that's where this guy must have been.
Do you expect motor vehicles to sound their horn in the same circumstance?
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby msn » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:45 am
Different for a bicycle.simonn wrote:I didn't see him your honour!BrownOnionThighs wrote: I did head-check. But in a head check, I'm not looking directly behind me, or behind and to the left of me - I'm not looking at the lane I'm in, I'm looking at the lane I'm going to. There's plenty of unsighted space behind me for a bike to be sitting in. And that's where this guy must have been.
Do you expect motor vehicles to sound their horn in the same circumstance?
Are there similar recommendations from VicRoads?NSW RTA bicycle riders handbook wrote: Bell or horn
A bell or horn enables you to let pedestrians
and other cyclists know you’re around – this
is particularly useful when overtaking.
Under the NSW Road Rules, your bicycle
must be fi tted with at least one working bell
or horn, or a similar warning device.
BrownOnionThighs, imo you do have a legitimate gripe. If I was approaching you from behind: observe truck, rider ahead (who head checks), think best option is to slow down and proceed with caution and overtake when safe. I'm one of the "passing / on yer right" types - usually have no probs at all.
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby simonn » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:20 am
Firstly, this is not a road rule. There is nothing in the NSW road rules stating that you must give an audible warning when overtaking when controlling any vehicle. Recommendations like this are, IMHO, dangerous because they lead to an expectation that the recommendation will be used when, as it is not required, may not be and therefore should not be expected. If it is important it should be a rule. If it is not a rule then you should have no expectation of it happening.msn wrote:NSW RTA bicycle riders handbook wrote: A bell or horn enables you to let pedestrians
and other cyclists know you’re around – this
is particularly useful when overtaking.
Secondly, there is no indication that BrownOnionThighs indicated his lane change. This is required under NSW road rules.
Thirdly, again, there was no proper head check.
Sure, the whole situation could have been avoided by being nice, i.e. the overtaker could have noticed the situation ahead and reacted as you stated - which is more than likely what I would have done, but if you are going to go legal about it, make sure you are correct.
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby BrownOnionThighs » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:28 am
Next time, instead of criticising the lack of bell I might yell out "How about a 'passing on your right'? *expletive* *expletive*!".
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby BrownOnionThighs » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:44 am
Interesting point. I do try to play it defensive out there - and if that's how other riders are thinking (i.e. just doing that which is legally reqd of them), I should look out for it.simonn wrote:Firstly, this is not a road rule. There is nothing in the NSW road rules stating that you must give an audible warning when overtaking when controlling any vehicle. Recommendations like this are, IMHO, dangerous because they lead to an expectation that the recommendation will be used when, as it is not required, may not be and therefore should not be expected. If it is important it should be a rule. If it is not a rule then you should have no expectation of it happening.msn wrote:NSW RTA bicycle riders handbook wrote: A bell or horn enables you to let pedestrians
and other cyclists know you’re around – this
is particularly useful when overtaking.
Secondly, there is no indication that BrownOnionThighs indicated his lane change. This is required under NSW road rules.
Thirdly, again, there was no proper head check.
Sure, the whole situation could have been avoided by being nice, i.e. the overtaker could have noticed the situation ahead and reacted as you stated - which is more than likely what I would have done, but if you are going to go legal about it, make sure you are correct.
As far as the head check is concerned, I feel that it was proper. But you can only expect to see so much. A bike can be approaching you from behind and to the left, and then swing around you to the right at the last second - you'll never see that coming with a head check.
And it's fine to stand behind the law and say that you were not technically in the wrong; but I'm 103kg and am riding a heavy mountainbike and if I hip and shoulder this little guy on a 10g racer he'll be the one who gets sent flying into the traffic. For me it's annoying and unnerving, the real danger this morning was for the other guy.
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby jules21 » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:07 pm
wearing lycra obviously does not make you an expert. i had a guy in pro team gear and full carbon steed come round a bend towards me on the Capital City Trail in melbourne yesterday, cutting over on the wrong side of the track. nice skillz d*******d.
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby Fletcher » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:22 pm
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby rearviewmirror » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:37 pm
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby casual_cyclist » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:54 pm
I say it all the time. I usually follow it by a "Good Morning!" or "Good Afternoon!" as I pass. I mostly get the same back as a response too. If I pass slowly enough I might also add in a "beautiful weather for riding!" - because in Perth, it usually isBrownOnionThighs wrote:I've never heard of the "passing on your right" thing - certainly nobody's ever made that call around me...
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby casual_cyclist » Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:57 pm
"Bike passing" is a bit more direct.Fletcher wrote:Hear hear. IMO they're a necessity when commuting. It's amazing how many pedestrians thank me for giving them a warning before overtaking on paths. The bike I bought last weekend doesn't have one just yet - need one for oversize bars. "Passing on the right" is too many words to yell when overtaking peds, they just get confused and are likely to jump anywhere, even right into your path. I've been yelling "ding ding!" instead. They get the message.
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby simonn » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:19 pm
Your view < the law, by a long way.jules21 wrote:i'm firmly of the view it is the responsibility of the passing rider to warn a rider in front, when passing them. as others have pointed out, you don't need a bell, a simple "passing!" will do.
Relying on a "passing!", "ting ting" or "honk honk", however polite it may be, is dangerous precisely because it is not the law, ergo there is absolutely no requirement for a passing rider do do it.
And, you do need a bell (or other noise maker) because it is the law (yes, I have one on my roadie).
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby BrownOnionThighs » Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:54 pm
Any chance we could swap some of that weather? I've got 5 months of drizzle coming up that I'm looking to offload.casual_cyclist wrote:I say it all the time. I usually follow it by a "Good Morning!" or "Good Afternoon!" as I pass. I mostly get the same back as a response too. If I pass slowly enough I might also add in a "beautiful weather for riding!" - because in Perth, it usually isBrownOnionThighs wrote:I've never heard of the "passing on your right" thing - certainly nobody's ever made that call around me...
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby Aushiker » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:09 pm
Hisimonn wrote:And, you do need a bell (or other noise maker) because it is the law (yes, I have one on my roadie).
So do and I don't use it that often nor find the need to; I prefer to rely on my riding skills (gained from riding in groups and do weekly mileages well in access of 80 km) and I wear spandex
The worst "near miss" I have had in three years of riding was caused by a rider on a mountain bike or flat bar (can't remember the bike details now) wearing a safety vest. He came off the bike path without looking straight into two lanes of traffic travelling at around 70 km/h. I was part of that traffic on the road and had to take avoiding action which put me perilously close to being cleaned up a car in lane 2. My point? Stupidity has nothing to do with wearing spandex.
Mind you that incident and others have made me guilty of considering riders in safety gear as suffering "Volvo driver syndrome" and therefore I treat them as a high risk.
Regards
Andrew
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby BrownOnionThighs » Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:50 pm
I don't mean to put crap on the spandex set, some of my best friends wear spandexAushiker wrote:Hisimonn wrote:And, you do need a bell (or other noise maker) because it is the law (yes, I have one on my roadie).
So do and I don't use it that often nor find the need to; I prefer to rely on my riding skills (gained from riding in groups and do weekly mileages well in access of 80 km) and I wear spandex
The worst "near miss" I have had in three years of riding was caused by a rider on a mountain bike or flat bar (can't remember the bike details now) wearing a safety vest. He came off the bike path without looking straight into two lanes of traffic travelling at around 70 km/h. I was part of that traffic on the road and had to take avoiding action which put me perilously close to being cleaned up a car in lane 2. My point? Stupidity has nothing to do with wearing spandex.
Mind you that incident and others have made me guilty of considering riders in safety gear as suffering "Volvo driver syndrome" and therefore I treat them as a high risk.
Regards
Andrew
My point was that when he opened up with the condescending "When you do as much riding as I do ..." line he was assuming that I was a noob because I wasn't in pantomime costume.
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby simonn » Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:16 pm
Maybe his assumption was based on the fact that you changed lanes right into his path?BrownOnionThighs wrote: My point was that when he opened up with the condescending "When you do as much riding as I do ..." line he was assuming that I was a noob because I wasn't in pantomime costume.
(What sort of rider am I if I wear lycra AND a flouro commuter jersey of dorkness?)
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby Aushiker » Thu Mar 11, 2010 5:14 pm
hisimonn wrote:(What sort of rider am I if I wear lycra AND a flouro commuter jersey of dorkness?)
A dangerous one?
Andrew
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby Boognoss » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:17 pm
Dang, I'll put my hand up to being dangerous 5 days a week.Aushiker wrote:hisimonn wrote:(What sort of rider am I if I wear lycra AND a flouro commuter jersey of dorkness?)
A dangerous one?
Andrew
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby Mulger bill » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:39 pm
"Flouro vest, no lycra. Check.
Mountain bike. Check.
He's slow, I'll zip past him easy."
Anybody who thinks blindly following the law is all that's needed to be safe on the roads better have health insurance and a decent life policy.
Shaun
London Boy 29/12/2011
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Re: Bell gripe
Postby Aushiker » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:08 pm
HiMulger bill wrote:Anybody who thinks blindly following the law is all that's needed to be safe on the roads better have health insurance and a decent life policy.
I don't think that is being suggested, however, making a significant move to the right without signalling is at best risky.
There are road rules for a reason ... and this one is there to communicate one's intention.
Andrew
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