Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's photos

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Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's photos

Postby Christine Tham » Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:30 pm

I hope no one objects to these photos:
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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby ve safari » Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:34 pm

Stupid post. Neither funny, nor in good taste.
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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby Christine Tham » Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:40 pm

ve safari wrote:Stupid post. Neither funny, nor in good taste.


Perfect example of why this forum isn't working (yet).

A female would have asked "what happened? is she okay?"
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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby steveoc » Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:46 pm

Its not a male vs female .. us vs them thing.

We are all cyclists.

Say What happened to her ? I hope her bike is allright
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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby Missy24 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:48 pm

Christine Tham wrote:
ve safari wrote:Stupid post. Neither funny, nor in good taste.


Perfect example of why this forum isn't working (yet).

A female would have asked "what happened? is she okay?"

I think she hit a car? Remember seeing an article about it, I like liz... She may not be the best but she's helped put womens cycling on the map
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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby ve safari » Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:52 pm

Your post is a troll CT, plain and simple.
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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby Christine Tham » Sat Mar 20, 2010 2:57 pm

ve safari wrote:Your post is a troll CT, plain and simple.


Another perfect example.

I thought this was a forum where FEMALE cyclists could discuss issues related to FEMALES CYCLING, without the usual male bullying that happens in the other forums.

Instead, when I post pictures of a FEMALE CYCLIST injured in a real accident, I immediately get attacked. Not once, but twice.

PS - the pictures are from an accident during a training ride last year. Liz has talked about it in her blog, she had some spectacular bruising on her lower leg which are too gross for me to link to. I like these pictures because they changed my attitude towards her - after she posted them, she became a real person to me.
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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby steveoc » Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:40 pm

Ooops - I didnt realize that was a women's cycling sub-forum, I just browse by new posts and click on whatever looks new. I don't even notice the subforum name half the time (and my French is particularly bad too).

Anyway - its worth downloading and watching 'Come ride with me' by the same Liz.
Torrent is avail here for example :
http://cyclingtorrents.nl/details.php?id=599

Watching that changed my attitude towards her - she has had a pretty interesting path on the way to getting on a bike, and telling the story in her own words, she almost sees the whole thing about becoming a marketing product as a cost for doing what she now loves doing most - which is riding the bike.

I got the impression that she had a pretty lucky life before that, and wasted it by being a drug f**&*&d party bimbo .. and she might still be there if cycling hadnt presented itself as an alternative. I can relate to that story well, and respect her for that.

Dont know how much of that narrative was all part of the same marketing campaign that she talks about, but either way its a pretty savage dilemma she finds herself in.

Yes - Liz Hatch is attractive, and she does present well to the camera. She is not the only one in that boat, and the same could be said about some male riders too. But that's the money making machine around her that presents that image, and focuses on it to sell products. Thats just a fact of life living in a society that values commercialism, and equates profit with achievement.

Its entirely up to Liz herself now to be recognised as a passionate and competitive cyclists first, and a pretty face second. Thankfully, most people in the audience can see beyond the marketting. Ride she can.
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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby Christine Tham » Sat Mar 20, 2010 4:46 pm

steveoc wrote:Ooops - I didnt realize that was a women's cycling sub-forum, I just browse by new posts and click on whatever looks new. I don't even notice the subforum name half the time (and my French is particularly bad too).


Steve, that was a brilliant post, and echoed a lot of my thinking when I saw those "accident" photos. I for one would welcome you in this forum - your insights would make a women's studies lecturer proud!

I also wonder how much of Liz's marketing image is a construct forced on Liz, or something she willingly entered into for complex reasons (including self-promotion, but also perhaps for a bit of fun), or maybe she was just in the right place at the right time, and she took the opportunity and "went along for the ride."

In any case, these pictures reveal more about Liz to me than a photo of her naked. Beyond anything else, they convinced me that she was serious about being a pro cyclist - no bimbo interested self-promotion would be brave enough to post photos of themselves in a less than flattering light, and perhaps may not want to continue cycling.

In particular, the look of haunted fear on her face in the photo where she was on the stretcher moves me - I could really emphatise with it - I probably had the same look on my face when I had an accident last year.
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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby Productivity » Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:47 pm

Christine Tham wrote:In any case, these pictures reveal more about Liz to me than a photo of her naked. Beyond anything else, they convinced me that she was serious about being a pro cyclist - no bimbo interested self-promotion would be brave enough to post photos of themselves in a less than flattering light, and perhaps may not want to continue cycling.

In particular, the look of haunted fear on her face in the photo where she was on the stretcher moves me - I could really emphatise with it - I probably had the same look on my face when I had an accident last year.


This is what I noticed - we've probably all been in this place (at least if you cycle a decent amount) but it's the look of pain and frustration with no less than a bit of fear when you're recovering from an injury. I came off while riding earlier in the week and while no serious injuries, everyone I've seen who knows me has remarked on my general demeanour. For me it just brings into focus everything I know intelectually but force to one side... You're out there, often on your own, putting your life into the hands of others and hoping they come out to be decent at what they do. Sometimes they don't or sometimes it's your fault but it's not very nice when it happens.
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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby ve safari » Sat Mar 20, 2010 5:49 pm

Usual male bullying CT? :lol: :lol:

You crack me up.

Enjoy your forum.

Mods - please restrict me from this sub forum if it makes CT feel more comfortable. Heaven forbid that I bully her any further.
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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby wombatK » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:29 pm

ve safari wrote:Stupid post. Neither funny, nor in good taste.

FWIW, I found nothing dis-tasteful about it. If you saw nothing funny about it, maybe it's worth lightening up so you can view things with more good humour.
A harsh opinion like this could be taken as a slight on CT, or overlooked as just another over-heated bit of flame-bait. But when you persist with something a bigger slight...
ve safari wrote:Your post is a troll CT, plain and simple.

and a churlish
ve safari wrote:Mods - please restrict me from this sub forum if it makes CT feel more comfortable. Heaven forbid that I bully her any further.

You are being quite uncivil and ungentlemanly. While I know CT is quite capable of handling flak herself, I wouldn't want anyone thinking she's a lone crusader with her response nor that it was a women's point of view of things only.

Christopher has been doing his utmost to attract women to the forum and to cycling, and uncivil and ungentlemanly attacks like yours aren't at all helpful.
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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby Christine Tham » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:51 pm

wombatK wrote:While I know CT is quite capable of handling flak herself, I wouldn't want anyone thinking she's a lone crusader with her response nor that it was a women's point of view of things only.


Thanks wombatK, that was very kind of you.

Unfortunately men who bully women (or those they perceive to be females) online and elsewhere often don't even realise they are doing it, and if someone mentions "male bullying" it can result in a scornful dismissal exactly like what happened here.

But ask any woman who posts here and they can usually cite a few examples. One prominent one that I recall recently was the thread about Missy's accident. Suddenly it became a thread about her competence as a rider. Now, I'm sure Missy will be the first one to acknowledge that there's always room for improvement (and in fact she did), but comments like that really doesn't help when the posters weren't witnesses and were just speculating that it was due to over-confidence. I don't see such comments when a male cyclist has a stack (except perhaps as a joke). Certainly not the persistent and prolonged set of insinuations, even after Missy complained and asked for people to back off a little.

Problem is that the posters themselves don't usually recognise that they treat male and female posters differently, which makes it all the more insidious. Which is why many female internet users hide behind a "male" pseudonym, or at least a gender neutral one.
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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby sogood » Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:17 pm

ve safari wrote:Your post is a troll CT, plain and simple.

Can't see what CT can be trolling for with this post. Pretty straight forward I thought.
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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby Robdog » Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:20 pm

wombatK wrote:
ve safari wrote:Stupid post. Neither funny, nor in good taste.

FWIW, I found nothing dis-tasteful about it. If you saw nothing funny about it, maybe it's worth lightening up so you can view things with more good humour.
A harsh opinion like this could be taken as a slight on CT, or overlooked as just another over-heated bit of flame-bait. But when you persist with something a bigger slight...
ve safari wrote:Your post is a troll CT, plain and simple.

and a churlish
ve safari wrote:Mods - please restrict me from this sub forum if it makes CT feel more comfortable. Heaven forbid that I bully her any further.

You are being quite uncivil and ungentlemanly. While I know CT is quite capable of handling flak herself, I wouldn't want anyone thinking she's a lone crusader with her response nor that it was a women's point of view of things only.

Christopher has been doing his utmost to attract women to the forum and to cycling, and uncivil and ungentlemanly attacks like yours aren't at all helpful.


Now nothing against anyone (and I mean that!), but this thread could be taken from both perspectives. My first thought was that it was a bit of a troll, given the title (read it aloud in your head), but having read the whole thing now, it's more a discussion of Liz as a person and athlete than a body. Given the history of this forum, it's not hard to see where it could be construed wrongly thanks to an emotionless, toneless system that is the internet.

Well done to Christine and Wombat for turning the topic around so neatly

PS Christine, is her blog still going? I came across the old one that said she was moving, but the URL came up as a malicious site, then stopped responding at all
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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby Mulger bill » Sat Mar 20, 2010 8:44 pm

Thank you for that post Christine.
I follow MTB more than road racing so was unaware of the crash or any of the fallout and yes, the haunted look as she lies on the board is a big eye opener. I didn't see a woman rider there, just a fellow rider staring at the gates of some kind of personal hell, one that didn't involve the next ride, ever. 'Scuse me while I go cuddle the kids.

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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby Missy24 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:40 pm

Robdog wrote:
Well done to Christine and Wombat for turning the topic around so neatly

PS Christine, is her blog still going? I came across the old one that said she was moving, but the URL came up as a malicious site, then stopped responding at all

+1 to Christine and Wombat

Robdog... I know she's on Twitter and spends most of her time posting links to cars and motorbikes
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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby hartleymartin » Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:42 am

Respect to Liz Hatch for putting on the brave face after what looks to have been a pretty damn nasty crash.

In my opinion this thread is no trolling. Ladies on bicycles are every bit as important as men on bicycles.
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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby Chanboy » Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:59 am

regardless of male or female forum... I'm not sure why the particular words of the title where chosen?

Wouldn't something like "Female Cyclist - Liz Hatch hurt in cycling accident - pics attached" be more appropriate?

When I read the title, then saw the pics - without any explanation - I had the same thoughts as ve safari.


It is sad that anyone gets hurt and all my sympathy's to her. However, I'm failing to understand the motivation of this post.
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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby Missy24 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:12 am

Chanboy wrote:regardless of male or female forum... I'm not sure why the particular words of the title where chosen?

Wouldn't something like "Female Cyclist - Liz Hatch hurt in cycling accident - pics attached" be more appropriate?

When I read the title, then saw the pics - without any explanation - I had the same thoughts as ve safari.


It is sad that anyone gets hurt and all my sympathy's to her. However, I'm failing to understand the motivation of this post.

The motivation behind this thread steams from the fact that someone posted a HOT picture of Liz HAtch (She was laying down some power at the time) in the thread about top Women Roadies, keep in mind although the OP's of this picture no doubt had it in his mind to point to the fact that Liz Hatch has breast and that it was hot, there was then discussion about if that picture was appropriate, I took the side that it was, even though the intention behind it was a little skewed.

Also in the thread about Top Female roadies there was claims made that Liz Hatch wasn't one of them, so Christine Tham posted this.

The post stays... as does the title, I hope the above helps you understand the motivation behind this thread.
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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby Chanboy » Thu Mar 25, 2010 11:57 am

Cool... thanks Missy. You've explained the "reasoning" for the post... which was absent from the OP.

Calling this a Troll Post may be a bit strong... but it certainly appears to be a provocative and controversial post, posted without context, and obviously inferring back to some other discussion. Is the intention to cause maximum disruption and argument? that I am not so sure of... (I do not believe CT had that intention, hence my question about "motivation").

I can understand ve safari's interpretation.
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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby Christine Tham » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:00 pm

Chanboy wrote:Cool... thanks Missy. You've explained the "reasoning" for the post... which was absent from the OP.


Not true. The reasoning was in the original post:
Christine Tham wrote:As they say, you're not a pro cyclist unless you've had a few stacks.


As for the photos, they are intended to remind people that Liz is not just an airbrushed body on a glamour photo, at the end of the day she is a real person and a real cyclist. People who are offended by photos of beautiful female cyclists injured in accidents may want to consider whether their perception of Liz is as a sex object, or a real person. That's what this forum should be about - real people, not fantasies.
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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby Missy24 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:26 pm

Christine Tham wrote:
Chanboy wrote:Cool... thanks Missy. You've explained the "reasoning" for the post... which was absent from the OP.


Not true. The reasoning was in the original post:
Christine Tham wrote:As they say, you're not a pro cyclist unless you've had a few stacks.


As for the photos, they are intended to remind people that Liz is not just an airbrushed body on a glamour photo, at the end of the day she is a real person and a real cyclist. People who are offended by photos of beautiful female cyclists injured in accidents may want to consider whether their perception of Liz is as a sex object, or a real person. That's what this forum should be about - real people, not fantasies.

Nicely said Christine.
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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby Sweeper59 » Thu Mar 25, 2010 3:04 pm

Missy24 wrote: The motivation behind this thread steams from the fact that someone posted a HOT picture of Liz HAtch (She was laying down some power at the time) in the thread about top Women Roadies, keep in mind although the OP's of this picture no doubt had it in his mind to point to the fact that Liz Hatch has breast and that it was hot, there was then discussion about if that picture was appropriate, I took the side that it was, even though the intention behind it was a little skewed.

Also in the thread about Top Female roadies there was claims made that Liz Hatch wasn't one of them, so Christine Tham posted this.

The post stays... as does the title, I hope the above helps you understand the motivation behind this thread.


Yes...it was me who posted the original 'offending' photo of Liz Hatch in the other forum. I'm now back after my 2 weeks of self-imposed exile after the 'storm in a tea cup' my posting caused.
I posted the photo because her name came to mind when the topic of well-known female cyclists was raised. Now, I know she is not the most successful of cyclists, but she gets more media coverage than better cyclists (as someone stated earlier - the Anna Kournakova of cycling) - and she was the first female cyclist I thought of. However, if people take an interest in cycling because of her 'glamorous' image, I suppose the sport of cycling benefits.
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Re: Geez - since everyone loves Liz Hatch so much, here's ph

Postby qinv » Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:59 am

if you are a sports person, you have to take your own risks. there's nothing about good looking or bad looking, or about getting on the front page of the newspapers, it's about your own health or what you like to do. she looks quite injured though, but I guess she' ok now (and yes, I'm a woman)
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