Cyclist killed on M4 motorway - Update on driver charges
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Cyclist killed on M4 motorway - Update on driver charges
Postby Boognoss » Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:49 am
If the details of the article prove true (swerved and hit) then this driver reserves to rot in gaol (and closely followed by hell).
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby Missy24 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:52 am
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby sandman » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:38 am
Just saw a few guys posts on FB....Not much you can say at all, we haev lots of B doubles and road trains in Alice, spose thats why we ride at 5:30am so we dont have to deal with them...
Sandman
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby Boognoss » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:44 am
Thought that too mate but figured that this type of incident is of general enough interest.sandman wrote:Booger, thread show probably be in the NSW forum....
Just saw a few guys posts on FB....Not much you can say at all, we haev lots of B doubles and road trains in Alice, spose thats why we ride at 5:30am so we dont have to deal with them...
Sandman
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby greyhoundtom » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:58 am
On the other hand it makes me feel so BL**DY angry that drivers out there are not taking better care driving their lethal killing machines!
I believe it is really long past the time when ALL cyclists should organise themselves into an Australian wide Cyclist Union, and become a formidable force to pressure the politicians on both sides of the House for more rapid and far reaching changes to make cycling safer for everyone.
Tom
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby herzog » Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:05 pm
No way, this concerns all of us. Wonder if the bloke was texting or something? I'm sure the coppers will get his phone records.sandman wrote:Booger, thread show probably be in the NSW forum....
I must say though, I'm not a fan of riding in a breakdown lanes with a 70+kph speed differential.
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby jules21 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:19 pm
unfortunately, if he was texting he was unlikely to have finished it and it wouldn't register.herzog wrote:No way, this concerns all of us. Wonder if the bloke was texting or something? I'm sure the coppers will get his phone records.
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby ScottyL » Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:36 pm
Oh I think my heart just stopped.....there it goes....
2010 Merida Road Race 903
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby herzog » Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:40 pm
The phone records can show if he had just received one (and may have therefore been reading/responding), or had sent one in the minutes prior.jules21 wrote:this is terribly sad.
unfortunately, if he was texting he was unlikely to have finished it and it wouldn't register.herzog wrote:No way, this concerns all of us. Wonder if the bloke was texting or something? I'm sure the coppers will get his phone records.
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby sogood » Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:47 pm
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby oldplodder » Sat Apr 10, 2010 12:49 pm
"Cycling is for life"
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby Percrime » Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:19 pm
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby jules21 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:21 pm
australia has no-fault injury insurance, so i suspect they'd only be liable for property damages. there's a discussion of it in another thread here somewhere.oldplodder wrote:If the policy in Denmark was adopted here the drivers would be a hell of a lot more careful around cyclists. Their law states that in any accident involving a cyclist and motor vehicle, the driver of the motor vehicle is automatically deemed liable and is responsible for all costs. If that were the law in Australia death and injury to cyclists would be dramatically cut.
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby ve safari » Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:40 pm
That picture makes me so very angry.
RIP my fellow cyclists.
For one to conquer oneself is the first and noblest of all victories!
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby jules21 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:44 pm
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby hannos » Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:48 pm
Perhaps incorporate some OS rules into the letter?
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby familyguy » Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:58 pm
Such as?jules21 wrote:forgive me for speculating, but from that pic, it seems possible the guy was dozing off and started following the off-ramp road markings. if that turns out to be true, a lot more people than just the driver become potentially liable for the cyclist's death.
From the location in the picture you cannot put any blame on the cyclists. They seem to have made the crossing from one side of the off-ramp to the other and been in a legally suitable location. But with 15T of truck vs 90kg of bike and rider, its got nothing to do with 'legality' and everything to do with situational awareness and prevention.
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby herzog » Sat Apr 10, 2010 1:59 pm
Who else would be liable? A dozing truckie can't really start pointing the finger at others surely?jules21 wrote:forgive me for speculating, but from that pic, it seems possible the guy was dozing off and started following the off-ramp road markings. if that turns out to be true, a lot more people than just the driver become potentially liable for the cyclist's death.
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby wombatK » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:27 pm
Absolutely shocking. My condolences to the family and friends of the deceased, and thoughts and prayers for the survivors.ve safari wrote:
That picture makes me so very angry.
RIP my fellow cyclists.
It appears the police haved place a marker maybe 15 cm or so inside the left hand lane (i.e. not on the shoulder). Be careful about rushing to judge the driver - there may be a claim that the cyclist swerved into the lane (e.g. to overtake others in the bunch) in an unsafe manner.
Can anyone think of a reason why there'd be no skid marks from the truck (e.g. do they have ABS on trailer brakes that would prevent it ) ?
Coroners report will take some time, but if there's no charges against the driver, the marker might point to why. It's a shame the police and media reports don't give us more information.
Be careful out there. Just this morning, I'd posted a suggestion in the commuting thread that the M5 shoulder is relatively safe. Not going to withdraw it, but you do need to be very careful especially if riding with a group - all the recent motorway cyclist fatalities in Sydney have involved cyclists riding in groups.
Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby jules21 » Sat Apr 10, 2010 2:29 pm
if his bosses have encouraged or even knew about his exceeding driving hours limits - if that turned out to be a factor, they certainly can and should probably expect to be held liable for the consequences.herzog wrote: Who else would be liable? A dozing truckie can't really start pointing the finger at others surely?
B-doubles have ABS on the prime mover, but most don't have it on the trailers. again, no skid marks is sometimes an indicator of driver fatigue as a factor.wombatK wrote: Can anyone think of a reason why there'd be no skid marks from the truck (e.g. do they have ABS on trailer brakes that would prevent it ) ?
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby il padrone » Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:06 pm
While I hear what you are saying and agree that introducing the principle of strict liability on Australian roads would be a great moderating effect on extreme hoon behaviour and straight-forward lazy driving, I think two things about this incident are crucial:oldplodder wrote:If the policy in Denmark was adopted here the drivers would be a hell of a lot more careful around cyclists. Their law states that in any accident involving a cyclist and motor vehicle, the driver of the motor vehicle is automatically deemed liable and is responsible for all costs. If that were the law in Australia death and injury to cyclists would be dramatically cut.
1. Strict liability is of limited benefit if you get hit and are dead.
2. I doubt that cyclists in Denmark or other European nations ride their bikes on 110kmh freeways, in particular in urban high-volume settings.
Personally I don't think a road like the M4 or others like Melbourne's Monash Freeway or Eastlink are suitable places for riding a bike.
"An unjustified and unethical imposition on a healthy activity."
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby ruscook » Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:48 pm
My deepest condolences to family and friends of all 4 cyclists involved...
The location looks to be just west of the Northern Rd exit ramp. Another photo shows what is probably the Northern Rd overpass.
The first sentence of the SMH report says "Fatigue may have caused a truck driver to veer into the breakdown lane and mow down a group of cyclists, killing one, on the M4 in Sydney’s west"
So at this stage, there's a fair indication of where the fault lies at this stage.
Russ
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby oldplodder » Sat Apr 10, 2010 3:51 pm
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby ruscook » Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:06 pm
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Re: Cyclist killed on Sydney's M4 motorway this morning
Postby greyhoundtom » Sat Apr 10, 2010 4:14 pm
+1000oldplodder wrote:Advocacy is the only way we are going to stop this carnage. Ring your local member and bend their ear. Remind him, "We are cyclists and we vote too" If the policy in Denmark was adopted here the drivers would be a hell of a lot more careful around cyclists. Their law states that in any accident involving a cyclist and motor vehicle, the driver of the motor vehicle is automatically deemed liable and is responsible for all costs. If that were the law in Australia death and injury to cyclists would be dramatically cut. I was hit by a car whilst cycling home from work over a year ago and am still recovering. The driver got off with a minor inconvenience. The truck driver in this horrific incident will get off with manslaughter. We need to take action now!
Something DOES need to be done to stop the slaughter of cyclists on our roads by drivers that simply look at having a bingle as a minor inconvenience because the insurance and third party will take care of it anyway, and as a force of habit do not consider the consequences of hitting a cyclist as compared to another car.
To achieve that aim a much stronger and a more active pressure group is required than those that currently are supposed to represent the needs of cyclists.
Tom
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