Kickstand for MTB tourer?

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Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby gregmacc » Sun Apr 18, 2010 2:12 pm

Hi all ... My wife and I have just returned from our first overnight tour ... one night and two days through the beautiful southern vales in South Australia. Nothing epic, but a significant first step for us nonetheless. The trip allowed us to give our gear a bit of a test, and highlight a couple of issues with the bikes ... the main one being the lack of kickstands. What models would people recommend for hardtail MTBs set up with front and rear panniers and quite a heavy extended independent touring load?
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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby Aushiker » Sun Apr 18, 2010 4:23 pm

Hi

I have a Hebie Bipod 605 NL on my Surly Long Haul Trucker, however, I don't know if it would fit your MTB or not. Baazlmon had problems fitting one to his Masi road bike.

That all said, if one does fit, I think they are great for both holding up the bike but making maintenance that bit easier.

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Regards
Andrew
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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby gregmacc » Sun Apr 18, 2010 8:40 pm

Thanks Andrew ... Very informative ... Just a few other questions if I may:
Did you consider other types/brands/models of stands? If so, why the Hebie 605?
Why a pod rather than a side stand?
Do you think a front wheel/handlebar stabilizer is necessary to guard against sudden movement of the front end when the bike is on the stand?
Does the "699 40 retrofit plate" use the hole in the chain-stay brace? (the hole that is usually used for mounting the rear mudguard)
I had a look at your Surly LHT 1000 km service photo. It's difficult to be sure but it appears that the front wheel is about 200mm off the ground when the bike is on the stand. Is that a little higher than it needs to be? Could you have got away with using the shorter stand?
I'm assuming that the RHS pod leg sits up snug under the chain when the stand is retracted ... is that adjustable in any way? I'm just concerned about ground clearance when riding along rocky or vegetation littered undulating tracks.
Cheers and thanks again
Greg
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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby il padrone » Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:21 pm

Greenfield stay-mounted sidestand. Excellent support for my fully loaded MTB tourer, and very lightweight.

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P.S. the Hebie stands are very good too, especially the classic Bipod 'Royal Mail' version as Aushiker uses (but it is solid steel, so quite heavy). My son uses one and it is very stable. When raised it still lies below the chain return line, and he has no problems with hooking vegetation or rocks on off-road trails. For this to happen you'd have to be bashing your chainrings too.
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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby gregmacc » Sun Apr 18, 2010 11:37 pm

Hi il padrone ... thanks for that ... I've spent the last couple of hours researching this and I'm definitely, eh hem ... "leaning" towards the rear mounted side kickstand option at this stage. Greenfields quote 2 sizes on their site: 285 and 305mm. What size do you think would suit my 2001 aluminium framed Giant Iguana MTB with 26" wheels? I've emailed them with the same question ... just thought you might know.
Can you recommend a good place to purchase one?
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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby il padrone » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:23 am

Get the 285 stand for a 26" bike.

I'm not sure where you'd get one in Adelaide. I bought my first from St Kilda Cycles, but they were a bit off-hand about how good the stand would work - "Most people break them within 12 months". Five years later mine is still working extremely well.

I bought a couple for the commuter and my wife's bike later on from Arthur E. Bike in USA.

St John Street Cycles in UK don't have Greenfield stands but do have similar rear sidestands from Pletscher and Hebie
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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby gregmacc » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:30 pm

Cheers il padrone ... just ordered a couple of the Greenfields "Stabilizers" from http://www.montaguebikes.com.au/collections/mountain/products/kickstand in Sydney.
$20 each plus $22 postage to Adelaide
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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby il padrone » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:50 pm

Good. I'm sure that they'll work well for you. Just be careful not to overtighten the three boolts on the mounting bracket. I think some people really crank on these and break the alloy - it's only a casting after all. Plenty strong enough for holding the bike but not able to flex. Also I don't pack the bags while they're on the bike - pack them up by the tent then fit to the rack.

Have a great time touring.
Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.
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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby Aushiker » Mon Apr 19, 2010 3:04 pm

Hi

I appreciate you have made a purchasing decision but for anyone else interested, my answers are:

gregmacc wrote:Did you consider other types/brands/models of stands? If so, why the Hebie 605?


For the Surly Long Haul Trucker, yes I did consider a ESGE Bipod kickstand. Both are similar types of kickstand but but went with the Hebie as much on price and ease of availability as anything. Having seen an ESGE in action I am glad I went with the Hebie. The rubber boots made a difference in sandy conditions.

Why a pod rather than a side stand?


I like the way it holds the bike and it provides a maintenance platform. Something I consider important on a touring bike when touring.

Do you think a front wheel/handlebar stabilizer is necessary to guard against sudden movement of the front end when the bike is on the stand?


Well not me anyway. The Surly seems to be quite well balanced and I haven't found it an issue as yet.

Does the "699 40 retrofit plate" use the hole in the chain-stay brace? (the hole that is usually used for mounting the rear mudguard)


Yes and I have a mudguard fitted as well.

I had a look at your Surly LHT 1000 km service photo. It's difficult to be sure but it appears that the front wheel is about 200mm off the ground when the bike is on the stand. Is that a little higher than it needs to be? Could you have got away with using the shorter stand?


I measured it this morning and it is ~ 120 mm of the ground. Initially I thought the stand was way to big but in actual use, it has worked out to be about right.

I'm assuming that the RHS pod leg sits up snug under the chain when the stand is retracted ... is that adjustable in any way? I'm just concerned about ground clearance when riding along rocky or vegetation littered undulating tracks.


The Hebie does not fold up with the legs coming together. They fold up with one leg on the left and one on the right. So far I haven't had any ground clearance issues but then this is not a mountain bike and hence is not being ridden on very rocky trails.

Regards
Andrew
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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby gregmacc » Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:17 pm

Thanks Andrew and il padrone ... appreciate your time and input ... I will post again about my experiences with the stands once we've had a chance to give them a workout.
Cheers
Greg
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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby s-s-a » Mon Apr 19, 2010 6:54 pm

Just curious as to the main reason for wanting/needing stands? It has never occurred to me to put a stand on one of my bikes.
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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby stevepedlin » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:05 pm

Greg, please let us know how it works out for info sake, I'm in the process of getting one matched and fitted, not 100% about it yet- I have an alloy dual stand on the way for my touring rig, the metal one at the LBS tended to foul my chain in certain selections, can't recall the alloy stands brand but I'm assured it will be the ticket.



S-S-A, the experienced tourers here like Il Padrone and Aushiker are the best to explain why a stand is needed when touring, but I'll have a quick stab in the meantime- in Greg's and the guys case, and soon to be my case, there is a need because the bikes are laden with travelling gear, like racks, luggage panniers and an assortment of other stuff strapped to the bike, this makes them heavy and even more unstable when stationary. A center stand helps prevent you from looking for something to lean the bike against when you dismount, the bike from toppling over and damaging things like rear vision mirrors etc. Dual legged center stands are sometimes prefered because a touring rig will tend to have a higher center of gravity than the bottom bracket level a side kickstand is levering from- they can tend to topple over even with a sidestand, even by a gust of wind. The two legged centre stand largely eliminates this problem and as the guys have mentioned, it tends (usually) to lift your rear wheel off the ground, making some basic maintenance tasks easier, its the most garunteed to give stability. Touring is quite a different technical proposition to any other form of cycling, as I am figuring out !
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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby hartleymartin » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:15 pm

I've got a double-stand. Not sure exactly who makes it, but it's the same as the ones used on Australia-post's delivery bicycles. Definitely a good bit of kit.
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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby Baalzamon » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:45 pm

Mind you, whilst on the Esperance - Perth tour my bike without a kickstand was the only bike to not fall over. Cavebear2 and Aushiker both had their bikes fall over after using the kickstand on sand and being stable for a few mins. All the object I leant my bike on where very stable :lol:
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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby gregmacc » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:57 pm

s-s-a and baalzamon: We have exactly one fully loaded cycle touring trip under our belts (2 days and 1 night touring the Southern Vales in South Australia). That short but educational experience has left me with no doubt that some form of stand on a touring bike would be very useful. My wife and I have been riding frequent day trips and commuting for the past 10 yrs. In that time we have only ever needed a rear carrier bag or maybe an additional single pannier and the idea of using a stand was barely even contemplated. A fully loaded tourer is a different matter. When 4 laden panniers, a bulging handlebar bag and various other bulky objects are strapped to our short wheel based, heavy MTBs they become so much more of a challenge to "park" (just our experience, maybe we are doing something awfully wrong ... ). We found that where once we would have been able to just lean the bikes on a post or a bench or a wall, the newly transformed bulbous shape of our machines would not allow such a care free approach. It's something to do will all that extra weight and raised centre of gravity. On many occasions, after several attempts at propping the machines up against a usually trusted support, we walked away less than confident.
I'm willing to bet that having a well designed and fitted stand on our bikes would have provided a more secure and stable parking option in most of the cases cited above. And of course ... you don't have to use it.
So many experienced bicycle tourers swear by stands ... They are quite inexpensive as bicycle accessories go ... so we are going to give them a try and see what happens.
Cheers
Greg
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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby Baldy » Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:00 am

If you use a side stand or no stand then put a rubber band or some kind of elastic around one or both of your brakes. I just use one of those thick red rubber bands[post type] and leave it doubled up on the bars. That way I can lean it on stuff even on a slope and its secure.

Theres a stand thats freestanding, its kind of like a few pieces of a tent pole with a U shape attachment on one end and a small platform or "foot" on the other end. The idea being you can strap it too your top tube or something for traveling. and then use bands to lock off your brakes. Someone is selling them but I cant think of the name, its something you could make yourself as well. I think its a nice idea and Im going to make one when I can find a used tent pole with ali sections. Only found worn fiberglass ones so far but havnt been looking long.
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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby Aushiker » Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:05 am

Baldy wrote:Theres a stand thats freestanding, its kind of like a few pieces of a tent pole with a U shape attachment on one end and a small platform or "foot" on the other end.


Hi

I suspect you are referring to the Click-Stand or similar. Ken blogged on his back January 2009.

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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby cavebear2 » Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:08 pm

Baalzamon wrote:Mind you, whilst on the Esperance - Perth tour my bike without a kickstand was the only bike to not fall over. Cavebear2 and Aushiker both had their bikes fall over after using the kickstand on sand and being stable for a few mins. All the object I leant my bike on where very stable :lol:
Correction: The fact that my bike fell over was my fault. The stand is extremely convenient, I would find it a real pain in the ass to not have a stand for a fully loaded touring bike. Not all objects that you lean your bike against (if you have any that is) will be stable enough to hold 35 to 45kg of bike/load. The Hebie Bipod is extremely robust and very stable, in fact one of my best purchases ever. :D

Note that if you have a large chain ring above 48T there may be compatibility issues, also, if you don't have a genuine touring bike (like Baalzamon) it may not fit your bike. :lol:
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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby Baldy » Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:17 pm

Yeah thats the one Andrew, thanks.

Going on the prices I might just buy one. Rather than stuff around trying to build one.

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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby cavebear2 » Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:18 pm

s-s-a wrote:Just curious as to the main reason for wanting/needing stands? It has never occurred to me to put a stand on one of my bikes.
If your bike + load weighs 35 to 45 kgs I think you would understand that a stable stand is essential. eg. You just stopped somewhere on the Nullabor without a stand ..... think about it. :wink:
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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby cavebear2 » Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:25 pm

gregmacc wrote:Do you think a front wheel/handlebar stabilizer is necessary to guard against sudden movement of the front end when the bike is on the stand?
I used a rubber 'cable' tie (available in hardware shops) to keep front wheel and down tube in line when the stand was in use and with most weight in rear panniers and front wheel raised. It worked very well.
Last edited by cavebear2 on Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby mylesau » Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:56 pm

I highly recommend the Click-Stand.

Works well on the smooth and in the rough, is very lightweight and strong (Max version):

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The only issue I've had is that the rubber on the U section that goes under the top tube is beginning to wear - it should be an easy fix with a little grip tape or similar.
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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby s-s-a » Wed Apr 21, 2010 2:01 pm

If your bike + load weighs 35 to 45 kgs I think you would understand that a stable stand is essential. eg. You just stopped somewhere on the Nullabor without a stand ..... think about it


Yeah I get it. I've toured on- and off-road plenty of places with nothing to lean a bike against, with total bike weight probably up to 30kg. Not for months at a stretch though. One of my complaints about the new PVC white guide posts is that you can't lean a bike against them :)

I agree that a centre stand would be an excellent workstand while out on a trip! And with loads that big you're hardly going to notice the extra weight of the stand...

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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby gregmacc » Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:30 pm

Just a follow up ... The greenfield "Stabilizer" stands have arrived and I've fitted them to our MTB tourers. As advised by various posters I've been careful not to over tighten the bolts (not just to protect the cast clamps of the stand but also our aluminium chain stays) and have used some Locktight in the threads for good measure. The stand clamps appear to be designed for conventional round steel tube chain stays. Because the chain stays on our bikes are over sized ovalated aluminium the lower mounting bolts are not quite far enough apart to accommodate the extra width. Consequently additional holes needed to be drilled, one of which was tapped (3/16 BSW). Although our MTB frames are way past us caring about paint protection I decided to use the supplied plastic clamp spacers hoping to dampen some vibration.

This is Wendy's bike ... exactly the same sized ovalated aluminium chain stays as my bike.
Image

New holes needed to be made to accommodate our wider chain stays.
The blue gunk is Locktight.
Image

We went for the 285mm stand leg ... they do a 305mm as well ... 285mm seems to provide an angle of lean which is just right ... i will say more about that after we've lived with the stands a while.
Thanks to everyone who responded with advice and info.
Cheers
Greg
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Re: Kickstand for MTB tourer?

Postby stevepedlin » Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:41 am

Hi Greg, looks like a solid enough unit, good thinking with the locktite, i've used it liberally on my bike. Wouldn't be hard to get some longer bolts and nylock nuts if anyone found they didn't have enough thread to bite on with the supplied bolt lengths.
Did you tap new threads ?

Well, if my alloy centre stand doesn't turn up(still waiting) I might consider one of these.

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