RTA changes could be boost for electric bikes
KELSEY MUNRO URBAN AFFAIRS
April 27, 2010
ELECTRIC bikes could be the answer to traffic congestion, the obesity crisis and our carbon footprint. But over-regulation and a cycling culture that looks down on battery-assisted bikes as "cheating" have slowed their take-up in Australia, enthusiasts say.
However, changes proposed by the RTA could allow more powerful models on our roads.
The bikes do not need to be registered as long as their maximum power is 200 watts or less. But some models can have throttle control and resemble mopeds, with users being booked for riding them without registration.
''The beauty of this is people who are way past riding a bike can suddenly ride again. It integrates casual exercise into people's daily lives,'' says Mike Rubbo, 71, a filmmaker and e-bike enthusiast who runs the blog situp-cycle.com. ''It's the ideal urban transport vehicle.''
Overseas, e-bikes with up to 1000-watt motors are permitted in some jurisdictions. European e-bikes are typically 250 watts. In response to a growing push to allow e-bikes without registration to be used in Australia, the RTA has submitted a report to the federal government proposing changes to regulations.
"Times have changed and bikes have changed so they need to bring the law into line with Europe, which is what they're proposing," said Paul van Bellen, co-owner of Gazelle Bicycles Australia, a "bikes for transport" shop in Matraville.
Lord Tony Berkeley, a Labour peer who is secretary of Britain's all-party parliamentary cycling group, said while visiting Sydney last week that European studies had established a link between lower levels of obesity and a higher take-up of cycling. People of all ages can ride, he said. "I'm sure the lycra brigade love it, too, but my objective is to get from A to B wearing a suit, and make it an everyday form of transport.''
NSW RTA set to change electric bike laws
- SmellyTofu
- Posts: 686
- Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:01 pm
- Location: Obviously not on the bike when I'm online in Sydney
NSW RTA set to change electric bike laws
Postby SmellyTofu » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:22 am
- sogood
- Posts: 17168
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
- Location: Sydney AU
Re: NSW RTA set to chance electric bike laws
Postby sogood » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:25 am
If the sole objective is to get people to use alternative transport, then this is a good move. Like other places, pedal cyclists will hate these electric assisted bikes but will learn to co-exist with them and will eventually find them useful on windy days (drafting).
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
- SmellyTofu
- Posts: 686
- Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:01 pm
- Location: Obviously not on the bike when I'm online in Sydney
Re: NSW RTA set to chance electric bike laws
Postby SmellyTofu » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:26 am
- slowflow
- Posts: 230
- Joined: Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:47 pm
- Location: Heathcote NSW
Re: NSW RTA set to chance electric bike laws
Postby slowflow » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:29 am
More bikes on the road should result in more political power which if used well can benefit even those looking down on electric.
- sogood
- Posts: 17168
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
- Location: Sydney AU
Re: NSW RTA set to chance electric bike laws
Postby sogood » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:32 am
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
- SmellyTofu
- Posts: 686
- Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:01 pm
- Location: Obviously not on the bike when I'm online in Sydney
Re: NSW RTA set to chance electric bike laws
Postby SmellyTofu » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:36 am
30km/h+ is fine for me... on flat roads. Can't really sustain 30 clicks on hills for too much.
One thing though about the story is that I can't see many people "pushing" their bike up the Milsons Point end of the Harbour bridge to get over the bridge. Some form of ramp or assisted ramp would have to be built for those that go into the city that way.
- sogood
- Posts: 17168
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
- Location: Sydney AU
Re: NSW RTA set to chance electric bike laws
Postby sogood » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:44 am
IIRC, the electric bikes I've ridden amongst have a top speed of 28km/h. They would get nowhere close to that on an uphill but power assistance remains. So the differential on a hill won't be that great. Electric bike riders are also lazy and tend not to supplement pedal power on uphills on their noodly bike frame.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
- wombatK
- Posts: 5612
- Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:08 pm
- Location: Yagoona, AU
Re: NSW RTA set to chance electric bike laws
Postby wombatK » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:50 am
IIRC, it was proposing a higher 250 W limit, but also suggesting measures such as having the motor cut-out as soon as pedalling stopped.
This kind of measure will make it easier to get rid of the two-stroke MTB conversions that tear along uphill and down-dale at 35 kph on urban footpaths cycleways (notably the M7), and are for all intents and purposes illegal unregistered motor bikes. Various retailers of the two-stroke bicycles claim they are legal - but the claim is very dubious. The RTA draft indicated that based on the engine capacity and the power it produces, there would be non of these producing less than 200 W. However, it appears the retailers are relying on some confusion about where or how the power measurement is made (I don't understand that ! power is power regardless of where measured, except for minor transmission losses).
And it's not illegal to sell a kit that would be illegal to ride on a public road or cycleway. The pedalling cut-out is a whole lot easier to enforce - it's pretty easy to detect someone is powering uphill without pedalling.
FWIW, I'd have no problem with a larger 350 or 500W power-assist, provided it had the automatic cut-out when not pedalling and some minimum requirements on braking capability.
Cheers
Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia
- sogood
- Posts: 17168
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
- Location: Sydney AU
Re: NSW RTA set to chance electric bike laws
Postby sogood » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:58 am
At 500W, you won't need to pedal, but just spin.wombatK wrote:FWIW, I'd have no problem with a larger 350 or 500W power-assist, provided it had the automatic cut-out when not pedalling and some minimum requirements on braking capability.
That's a half decent sprinting power... Sustained!
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
- queequeg
- Posts: 6479
- Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 10:09 am
Re: NSW RTA set to chance electric bike laws
Postby queequeg » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:07 am
My understanding was that the power output of the motor was directly related to the effort the rider puts in, so simply "spinning" would get you nowhere.sogood wrote:At 500W, you won't need to pedal, but just spin.wombatK wrote:FWIW, I'd have no problem with a larger 350 or 500W power-assist, provided it had the automatic cut-out when not pedalling and some minimum requirements on braking capability.
That's a half decent sprinting power... Sustained!
- SmellyTofu
- Posts: 686
- Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:01 pm
- Location: Obviously not on the bike when I'm online in Sydney
Re: NSW RTA set to change electric bike laws
Postby SmellyTofu » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:23 am
- hartleymartin
- Posts: 5153
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:56 pm
- Location: Fairfield, NSW
Re: NSW RTA set to change electric bike laws
Postby hartleymartin » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:57 am
I personally favour the front hub power design. It allows for a much easier conversion from a regular bicycle to electric-assist. Bike Friday are currently developing the E-Tikit which I think is a brilliant piece of design. It allows you to remove the electric gear and fit a normal front wheel for use as a regular bicycle.
http://raleightwenty.webs.com - the top web resource for the Raleigh Twenty
- sogood
- Posts: 17168
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
- Location: Sydney AU
Re: NSW RTA set to change electric bike laws
Postby sogood » Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:59 am
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
- wombatK
- Posts: 5612
- Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:08 pm
- Location: Yagoona, AU
Re: NSW RTA set to chance electric bike laws
Postby wombatK » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:12 am
Some options in the draft also suggested cutting out power assist at 25 kph.sogood wrote:At 500W, you won't need to pedal, but just spin.wombatK wrote:FWIW, I'd have no problem with a larger 350 or 500W power-assist, provided it had the automatic cut-out when not pedalling and some minimum requirements on braking capability.
That's a half decent sprinting power... Sustained!
Specifically from discussion paper
After re-reading the paper, I'll withdraw my "happy with 350 or 500 W comment". The paper's appendix presents a pretty convincing argument about the sensible power rating v's safety risks trade-off. The 250W motor only rider could do 30.00 kph on flat, rider+motor 32.5. The latter is faster than 85% of riders measured in a survey of 1162 cyclists on Melbourne cycleways. The paper reasonably suggests the performance needs to be capped so that the power assisted riders performance is not outside the boundaries of most unassisted riders.The preferred definition for discussion is:
A pedal cycle [vehicle designed to be propelled through a mechanism solely by human
power] to which is attached one or more auxiliary propulsion motors having a combined
maximum continuous rated power not exceeding 250 watts, of which the output is
progressively reduced and finally cut off as the vehicle reaches a speed of 25
km/h, or sooner, if the cyclist stops pedalling.
This would replace the current definition:
A pedal cycle to which is attached one or more auxiliary propulsion motors having a combined maximum power output not exceeding 200 watts.
The paper also raises the prospect of unlicensed children riding amongst traffic at 35 kph on an e-bike. Theoretically, a freakishly athletic child could do this on a pedal-only bicycle, but we know it doesn't happen. You certainly aren't going to see 8 to 10 year olds doing it, but on an e-bike it might happen.
Guess we'll have to wait and see what the RTA puts forward, and whether it gets up
On the question of legality of power assisted bicycles under the current legislation,
the decision in Matheson v Director of Public Prosecutions is interesting. It was concluded that this
pedal-assisted e-bike
had a motor of less than 200W capability, but it's motor was not "auxiliary". So it required registration, and the rider was fined etc.,. even though it was sold to her as not requiring registration. Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
Many of the BSO two-strokes where riders are often not pedalling could also be considered to have motors that are not auxiliary and fined for unregistered vehicle use.
Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia
- sogood
- Posts: 17168
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
- Location: Sydney AU
Re: NSW RTA set to chance electric bike laws
Postby sogood » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:27 am
I would agree that's a good reference point, or the speed differential would be excessive, leading to additional conflicts and incidents.wombatK wrote:After re-reading the paper, I'll withdraw my "happy with 350 or 500 W comment". The paper's appendix presents a pretty convincing argument about the sensible power rating v's safety risks trade-off. The 250W motor only rider could do 30.00 kph on flat, rider+motor 32.5. The latter is faster than 85% of riders measured in a survey of 1162 cyclists on Melbourne cycleways. The paper reasonably suggests the performance needs to be capped so that the power assisted riders performance is not outside the boundaries of most unassisted riders.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
- SmellyTofu
- Posts: 686
- Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 1:01 pm
- Location: Obviously not on the bike when I'm online in Sydney
Re: NSW RTA set to change electric bike laws
Postby SmellyTofu » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:12 am
Or "hoons" doing mega FWD burnouts on bikes. I know I would have done this. It was cool to do it during my BMX days to get the rear wheels spinning on dirt.sogood wrote:Front wheel drive bikes? Watch out for under-steer!
- ghettro
- Posts: 960
- Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:38 am
- Location: London, UK
Re: NSW RTA set to change electric bike laws
Postby ghettro » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:43 pm
It's the whipper snipper motor Kmart bikes I really hate, I think everyone does including pedestrians. So often you see them on clapped out kmart MTB's, not to mention they are noisy. Get some leg muscles or get a proper motorbike !
- wombatK
- Posts: 5612
- Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:08 pm
- Location: Yagoona, AU
Re: NSW RTA set to change electric bike laws
Postby wombatK » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:04 pm
Up to 32 kg (the NSW Safety Centre report has more details).ghettro wrote:e-bike riders don't really bother me at all. How much do they weigh out of curiosity? Are they liftable?
It's the whipper snipper motor Kmart bikes I really hate, I think everyone does including pedestrians. So often you see them on clapped out kmart MTB's, not to mention they are noisy. Get some leg muscles or get a proper motorbike !
It's the pollution, noise and riders lack of consideration of safety that worries me most about the petrol powered ones. If the riders will use these illegal vehicles in clear contravention of the registration laws, what other laws etc.,. will they be ignorant of or too arrogant to follow ?
While the RTA etc.,. carefully avoid proscrobing internal combustion engines lest someone makes a technological breakthrough, other jurisdictions have not taken such a pie-in-the-sky approach. We need at least a maximum noise requirements and pollution requirements similar to motor vehicles - even lawn mowers have noise and operating hour restrictions.
Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia
-
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:22 pm
Re: NSW RTA set to chance electric bike laws
Postby WonkyWheels » Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:30 pm
Take a step back and think about the double standard here.sogood wrote:I would agree that's a good reference point, or the speed differential would be excessive, leading to additional conflicts and incidents.wombatK wrote:After re-reading the paper, I'll withdraw my "happy with 350 or 500 W comment". The paper's appendix presents a pretty convincing argument about the sensible power rating v's safety risks trade-off. The 250W motor only rider could do 30.00 kph on flat, rider+motor 32.5. The latter is faster than 85% of riders measured in a survey of 1162 cyclists on Melbourne cycleways. The paper reasonably suggests the performance needs to be capped so that the power assisted riders performance is not outside the boundaries of most unassisted riders.
Hint: cars + cyclist on the road
-
- Posts: 3056
- Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:54 pm
Re: NSW RTA set to change electric bike laws
Postby zero » Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:44 pm
-
- Posts: 136
- Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 11:22 pm
Re: NSW RTA set to change electric bike laws
Postby WonkyWheels » Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:48 pm
- hartleymartin
- Posts: 5153
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:56 pm
- Location: Fairfield, NSW
Re: NSW RTA set to change electric bike laws
Postby hartleymartin » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:06 pm
http://raleightwenty.webs.com - the top web resource for the Raleigh Twenty
-
- Posts: 1569
- Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 7:56 pm
- Location: brisbane, 4101
Re: NSW RTA set to chance electric bike laws
Postby lethoso » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:13 pm
I think the comment was in reference to cycleways/shared paths. I don't think newbie riders travelling at 30kph+ would be a safe addition to shared paths.WonkyWheels wrote:Take a step back and think about the double standard here.
Hint: cars + cyclist on the road
-
- Posts: 241
- Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 11:32 am
- Location: Woolgoolga NSW
Re: NSW RTA set to change electric bike laws
Postby Recycler » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:26 pm
- hartleymartin
- Posts: 5153
- Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:56 pm
- Location: Fairfield, NSW
Re: NSW RTA set to change electric bike laws
Postby hartleymartin » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:46 am
http://raleightwenty.webs.com - the top web resource for the Raleigh Twenty
- General Australian Cycling Topics
- Info / announcements
- Buying a bike / parts
- General Cycling Discussion
- The Bike Shed
- Cycling Health
- Cycling Safety and Advocacy
- Women's Cycling
- Bike & Gear Reviews
- Cycling Trade
- Stolen Bikes
- Bicycle FAQs
- The Market Place
- Member to Member Bike and Gear Sales
- Want to Buy, Group Buy, Swap
- My Bikes or Gear Elsewhere
- Serious Biking
- Audax / Randonneuring
- Retro biking
- Commuting
- MTB
- Recumbents
- Fixed Gear/ Single Speed
- Track
- Electric Bicycles
- Cyclocross and Gravel Grinding
- Dragsters / Lowriders / Cruisers
- Children's Bikes
- Cargo Bikes and Utility Cycling
- Road Racing
- Road Biking
- Training
- Time Trial
- Triathlon
- International and National Tours and Events
- Cycle Touring
- Touring Australia
- Touring Overseas
- Touring Bikes and Equipment
- Australia
- Western Australia
- New South Wales
- Queensland
- South Australia
- Victoria
- ACT
- Tasmania
- Northern Territory
- Country & Regional
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users
- All times are UTC+11:00
- Top
- Delete cookies
About the Australian Cycling Forums
The Australian Cycling Forums is a welcoming community where you can ask questions and talk about the type of bikes and cycling topics you like.
Bicycles Network Australia
Forum Information
Connect with BNA
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.