TT position

Individual and Team TT

Re: TT position

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Sat Apr 03, 2010 2:33 pm

Richard.L wrote:Ant's seat seem to be 5cm higher than his bars. Does this matter in TT's? or is that only a road race rule?

The only (UCI) rule concerning the relationship between heights of bars and saddle is that no part of the bars and/or extensions may be higher than the saddle.
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by BNA » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:58 pm

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Re: TT position

Postby JV911 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:58 pm

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Re: TT position

Postby Ant. » Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:53 pm


(nothing against you JV911. Always worth finding things like this, pity this one is a bit short sighted)

Is every post I read purposely poking me in the eye??! :lol: I better stay off the internet for a while, all these experts are getting to me :shock:
Wind tunnel 2008. Surely trying to find best combo of power output and low drag. This would be a great app for the TTFitBike - his position could be changed via remote control and drag and power output monitored continuously.

Way to plug yourself guys... except the only way to do that is to do maximal testing over a sustained'ish duration.
What about all the other positions in the 2008 wind tunnel? Not showing them are we, because it doesn't back up your article?

His 04 TdF position doesn't look that dissimilar from his current position.
As far as I'm aware, he's never ridden in that "wind tunnel" position so that half of the video is flawed. And they got a photo of him at ToC when he's looking up the road and sitting up. Convenient. That half of that video wouldn't be anywhere near as "convincing" if they used a shot like this:
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Page 1 and 2 of google image search. He purposefully looked passed these to try prove his point.
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Re: TT position

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:56 pm

Was he genetically modified to have an aero hump back?.
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Re: TT position

Postby MiG » Wed Apr 28, 2010 6:19 pm

Ant. wrote:Page 1 and 2 of google image search. He purposefully looked passed these to try prove his point.

Isn't their point that he's sitting way forward to get a steeper effective angle? Looks like there's heaps saddle sticking out behind him in those shots.
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Re: TT position

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:14 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Was he genetically modified to have an aero hump back?.


Looks like a water bladder
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Re: TT position

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:25 pm

mikesbytes wrote:
toolonglegs wrote:Was he genetically modified to have an aero hump back?.


Looks like a water bladder



He wishes it was a water bladder...
Last edited by toolonglegs on Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TT position

Postby Romper » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:14 am

lance the camel has 1 hump
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Re: TT position

Postby JV911 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:44 am

toolonglegs wrote:Was he genetically modified to have an aero hump back?.


i thought aero devices were banned :lol:
Last edited by JV911 on Fri Apr 30, 2010 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TT position

Postby Ant. » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:54 am

MiG wrote:
Ant. wrote:Page 1 and 2 of google image search. He purposefully looked passed these to try prove his point.

Isn't their point that he's sitting way forward to get a steeper effective angle? Looks like there's heaps saddle sticking out behind him in those shots.

He is (now) sitting way forward and getting a steeper angle
But their point is a forwards+up saddle allows you to get low at the front, then used shots of him sitting upright to demonstrate that. But really he couldn't go any lower at the front if he wanted too.
And they think rotating around the bottom bracket like that makes you faster, maybe, maybe not. Can't judge that from a picture, and everyone's different.

I don't think there's heaps of saddle sticking out behind him in those shots?
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Re: TT position

Postby MiG » Thu Apr 29, 2010 11:58 pm

Ah I see, I didn't notice that most of the shots were meant to show his "poor" position before the Adamo.
Now I see that in the two Adamo shots he's having a brief look down (I assume he doesn't have Jedi navigation skills so it must be a brief look) which makes him look better than in the other photos.
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Re: TT position

Postby Parrott » Fri Apr 30, 2010 10:31 pm

MiG wrote:Isn't their point that he's sitting way forward to get a steeper effective angle? Looks like there's heaps saddle sticking out behind him in those shots.



I tend to agree with you, there is a fair bit of saddle sticking out behind his butt. However here is one with more saddle sticking out
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If you do this search you will see plenty of the best riders in the world sitting forward on their perineum. The conclusion I draw from that is if the seat was allowed to be further forward it would be and forward is faster more often than not.

Bit of a rant about the 5cm rule again sorry, can't seem to help it
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Re: TT position

Postby philip » Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:38 pm

Going up to Calga tomorrow, just put the aero bars on my bmc, I get a better position than my trek:
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Still not as low as I would like but it'll do. Problem is my arms are pretty long (found that out when I had to buy a suit recently). The other problem is that my jersey bunches up a lot. Ah well.. it's just for fun :D
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Re: TT position

Postby mikesbytes » Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:55 pm

I need to do the same, get a photo of myself in the TT position and make a decision on whether to get a 30deg 70mm stem or not
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Re: TT position

Postby Trackfix » Mon Nov 28, 2011 12:22 pm

If you compare your TT position to that of Fabian or Cadel you may notice that your elbows are running (AT) about 80 deg to Torso, TT position is run normally (AT) 75 deg bringing your elbows in closer to your body. If you are unable to drop your stem height then you may be able to run the aero bars under your base bar (drop bar) instead of over it, this effectively will drop the elbow cups down to the same height as the base bar. As their are no rules if you are not complying to UCI mover your saddle forwards to bring you closer to your Aero bars to help achieve the 75 deg.

Note as you lower your back angle from standard 45deg to TT (AT) 20 deg your leg length will increase you will have to drop your saddle height by 5-6mm or 2 deg to compensate.

PS Cadel has a long upper arm (Humorous) combined with long torso short legs for overall height this adds to his aggressive ITT position

Note both Fabian and Cadel use the same length effective top tube 54cm

Hope this helps for future outing on your trusty bicycle
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Re: TT position

Postby twizzle » Mon Dec 05, 2011 12:56 pm

Trackfix wrote:Note as you lower your back angle from standard 45deg to TT (AT) 20 deg your leg length will increase you will have to drop your saddle height by 5-6mm or 2 deg to compensate.

Strange - I've always found that because the pelvis is rotated forwards, the effective distance between hip joint and pedals is reduced and you have to RAISE the saddle. Unless you are one of those cyclists who bends at the lower back due to inflexibility, that is...
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Re: TT position

Postby toolonglegs » Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:16 am

Another newbie question :oops: ... if I do my TT's sitting on my Adamo saddle's nose ( a position which I seem to find reasonably comfortable)... and I never leave that position... can I take that as my bb to saddle height?. Pretty much ignoring any other part of the saddle?.
I know my saddle height for road bike is 826mm (bb to top of saddle / 180mm crank) so I am thinking of setting my TT saddle nose at the same height, which would mean raising the saddle a bit. I do feel a bit cramped.
Yes I know I can just try it out... but I have delicate tendons in my heal and while I do feel comfy with my saddle a cm or two higher on my road bike, when I do get in wrong tendonitis sets in quickly!... rather avoid that!.
Edit:- just measured roughly... There is close to 3cm difference from nose area of saddle to normal measuring point in line with seat tube!... Will raise it two cm and try it there. Lucky I have a long time to get this right!
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Re: TT position

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Apr 18, 2012 7:26 pm

OK...critic my position please... (ignoring the 10-15kgs still to lose!).Feel pretty comfy in this position, right on the nose of an Adamo saddle but can stay happily for 20 minutes plus without discomfort.
Saddle is 7cm behind BB, thats as close as I can get it with a setback post turned around, but if it was a standard saddle it would be 3 or 4 cm behind the bb.
Running the same bb to saddle nose height (1006mm) as I run bb to saddle middle on my road bike.
Things of note : my right shoulder sits a lot lower than my left (looks smaller too). Even though everything is set equally my left leg gets closer to my elbow than my left.
But anyway any tips would be good.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IE3ldwvMgU4&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]
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Re: TT position

Postby Parrott » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:41 pm

Looks pretty good to me you seem well forward with that adamo seat. The head tube is longer than a tt frame of similar top tube length would be so that you appear a bit high at the front.
Maybe an adjustable stem or maybe not with ? back problems you had.
Get an aero helmet also and try it again with that on, aero helmet gives cheap time gains.
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TT position

Postby twizzle » Wed Apr 18, 2012 9:52 pm

Looks good, but a little messy as you ramp it up. Not that rock-solid position on the bike you see from some guys - but it's always going to be hard to be smooth on a trainer. I'm nowhere near as low as that but my knees can just touch my elbows and I'm close to having the thighs hitting the lower ribs. Damn my long legs and big rib cage!
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Re: TT position

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:17 pm

ALready on an adjustable stem... probably have 5-10mm more I can go (lose the last spacer and drop it a bit more). Back isn't a problem... hamstrings feel it but I am only just getting into that position so they will come around.
Twiz, yeah I noticed the rocking when watching it as well... but I think that is partly down to the tyre slipping on the drum till it gets up to speed.Out on the road I don't rock much at all. But even though I like pushing a big gear...I think I push on average one gear higher than I should.
Aero helmet will be here soon... well when I go and buy it, hopefully will get the 82mm front on soon as well.
All I need is a frame and disc rear now.
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Re: TT position

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:56 pm

It looks like to me that your seat is too low when sitting on the nose. But I'm no expert.

What's your hamstring flexibility like?
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TT position

Postby toolonglegs » Wed Apr 18, 2012 11:59 pm

Been working on it mate but I certainly feel this position in the hammies...originally I had he saddle at the same height as the road bike, but that was 2-3 cms lower than it is here... Measuring to the nose now.
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Re: TT position

Postby Parrott » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:52 pm

toolonglegs wrote:Been working on it mate but I certainly feel this position in the hammies...originally I had he saddle at the same height as the road bike, but that was 2-3 cms lower than it is here... Measuring to the nose now.


Prob good to leave it there then and work on flexibility and core strength. Looks like about all you can do is a longer adjustable stem and bring the extensions back a bit if you run into problems with that rule.

This one is a good stretch, only push the crossed (her right) knee away. Should feel it in your glute on the right in that pic.
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TT position

Postby toolonglegs » Thu Apr 19, 2012 2:58 pm

Lol... I know that stretch well.
I think it will just take a while for muscles to get used to the hew position.
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