Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
-
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 10:07 pm
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby Grant W » Fri May 21, 2010 9:28 am
the question is "who isn't?"
1, Floyd knows his professional career is over
2, From what reports suggest, he has nothing to be sued for
3, might make a bit of cash if his info can be proved or isn't sued for it. But will become the most hated cyclist in the professional ranks in the world.
The only time he will pedal again will be on a Sunday before church.
Pity, I did actually like him as a rider, but all he is doing is sending cycling down the gurgler even more than the cheaters already are.
Is he doing this to better the sport or to make a dollar?
- sogood
- Posts: 17168
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
- Location: Sydney AU
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby sogood » Fri May 21, 2010 10:00 am
Until the rider has been proven to be a doper, these internet "proofs" are just trial by the mob, insufficient to ruin someone's reputation. If Lance did dope and was so smart as to be able to evade all investigations, then that's his luck. Too bad that FloydL is a dumbass.jules21 wrote:lance is a doper. the evidence against him is strong, regardless of what Landis has claimed.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
- wombatK
- Posts: 5612
- Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:08 pm
- Location: Yagoona, AU
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby wombatK » Fri May 21, 2010 10:23 am
+1. Landis's credibility is lower than a snake's belly. If he has credible evidence up his sleeve (beyond his own words), he should put up or shut up. Our legal principle is that you're entitled to a presumption of innocence - the UCI and related parties don't have to prove their innocence.jasimon wrote:I can see one approach that would provide corroboration - that is a fianancial audit of UCIs/related parties books for 2002. There is an allegation that money changed hands in 2002 related to a positive test in the Tour de Swiss. Follow the money.
That's not to say that it wouldn't be a wonderful idea if they were more transparent and enthusiastic about demonstrating that there has not been any bribery or corruption relating to drug use.
Somebody has to do something, and it's just incredibly pathetic that it has to be us -Jerry Garcia
-
- Posts: 298
- Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:44 pm
-
- Posts: 2083
- Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 10:07 am
- Location: Adelaide
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby silkishuge » Fri May 21, 2010 1:38 pm
J
-
- Posts: 30
- Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 2:28 pm
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby Pain Train » Fri May 21, 2010 1:56 pm
I'd be pretty annoyed if there were other self-righteous Tour winners on PEDs getting worshipped for their amazing abilities, while I'm copping it in the media for doing exactly the same thing.
- sogood
- Posts: 17168
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
- Location: Sydney AU
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby sogood » Fri May 21, 2010 2:14 pm
Well, that's natural selection in the work... Bad luck, poor adaptation and low IQ. Looks like Floyd Landis has all 3.Pain Train wrote:I'd be pretty annoyed if there were other self-righteous Tour winners on PEDs getting worshipped for their amazing abilities, while I'm copping it in the media for doing exactly the same thing.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
- one_damo
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:12 am
- Location: Epping, Sydney
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby one_damo » Fri May 21, 2010 3:45 pm
Interesting article (can't vouch for credibility of that site), but regardless of his previous indiscretions, I'd suspect Landis is in some serious mental state possibly leading to depression or similar. His world has seriously been turned upside down (for the past 4 or so years), and people do strange things when under stress.
that's not a nice thing to say and can't really be founded, particularly following this attitudesogood wrote:Well, that's natural selection in the work... Bad luck, poor adaptation and low IQ. Looks like Floyd Landis has all 3.
sogood wrote: Until the rider has been proven to be a doper, these internet "proofs" are just trial by the mob, insufficient to ruin someone's reputation.
- hannos
- Posts: 4109
- Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 11:18 am
- Location: Sydney
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby hannos » Fri May 21, 2010 3:50 pm
It's reported Landis wanted to ride in the ToC, but was denied by Amgen. He then allegedly threatened to bust out a massive story to ruin them if they didn't let him ride.
Three years or so of claiming to be clean, an estimated $1million US for his legal fees paid for by the general public, then the backflip?
Also, it's about 1 month before the statute of limitations hits and those he claims are drug cheats cannot be chased.
Convenient huh?
I think Landis just doesn't want to go down alone and is trying to ruin a lot of people's reputations, or at least tarnish them.
- one_damo
- Posts: 126
- Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 10:12 am
- Location: Epping, Sydney
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby one_damo » Fri May 21, 2010 3:58 pm
I say the UCI just allow PEDs. Level playing field . might see a few horses on bikes. Alpe d'Huez TT in 20min ?
-
- Posts: 610
- Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:36 pm
- Location: Adelaide
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby gdt » Fri May 21, 2010 4:04 pm
I personally doubt Lance is doing PEDs, simply because if he had been then it is likely that his ex-wife would have dropped him into that world of trouble by now.
- toolonglegs
- Posts: 15463
- Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
- Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby toolonglegs » Fri May 21, 2010 4:40 pm
- Aushiker
- Posts: 22398
- Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 1:55 pm
- Location: Walyalup land
- Contact:
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby Aushiker » Fri May 21, 2010 4:41 pm
Hihannos wrote:Why did Landis not go straight to USADA instead of the media?.
I think you will find he did. These emails are from earlier in the year no?
Regards
Andrew
Aushiker.com
- toolonglegs
- Posts: 15463
- Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
- Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby toolonglegs » Fri May 21, 2010 4:42 pm
But that is not that UCI's legal principle in the slightest!.wombatK wrote:Our legal principle is that you're entitled to a presumption of innocence - the UCI and related parties don't have to prove their innocence.
- sogood
- Posts: 17168
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
- Location: Sydney AU
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby sogood » Fri May 21, 2010 4:45 pm
I get the impression that just about all top end sports people are into PEDs, just most are not into banned PEDs.gdt wrote:I personally doubt Lance is doing PED...
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
- Chuck
- Posts: 4376
- Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:19 pm
- Location: Hiding in the bunch
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby Chuck » Fri May 21, 2010 6:51 pm
Landis goes down, the sport can survive. He's not well known outside of keen cycling followers and he's proof that the authorities are catching the cheats, small and big fish.sogood wrote:Well, that's natural selection in the work... Bad luck, poor adaptation and low IQ. Looks like Floyd Landis has all 3.Pain Train wrote:I'd be pretty annoyed if there were other self-righteous Tour winners on PEDs getting worshipped for their amazing abilities, while I'm copping it in the media for doing exactly the same thing.
Armstrong goes down the sport suffers a mortal blow. Arguably the most well known cyclist of alltime (to people with just a passing interest, or less), to some he'd be the greatest cyclist of alltime. If he tests positive it just confirms what everybody thinks about cycling, they're all drug cheats. Sponsors, fans, networks flee in large numbers. Look at how sponsors leave when smaller riders get caught, imagine if the biggest name in the sport goes positive ? The sport, which is already on the nose, would be terminal.
Conclusion, Armstrong too big (he is bigger than cycling) cycling can't afford to have him tarnished. Landis, just big enough to show we're fair dinkum about cleaning up the sport, but not so big as to do any long term damage.
- flammer
- Posts: 4454
- Joined: Sat Sep 26, 2009 10:17 pm
- Location: Goulburn Valley Vic.
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby flammer » Fri May 21, 2010 8:01 pm
SynapseLiquigas Mt Fuji Pro
CAAD 7 Reborn as Cyclocross Gazelle AA Special
-
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 10:07 pm
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby Grant W » Fri May 21, 2010 8:06 pm
If Armstrong was found to be positive tomorrow my first thought would be surprise, surprise!!
it's the casual cyclist and younger generation who are a little blind looking to Lance as a riding "God" that would be..... "Surprised" and that is sad for them.
I dont think LA is bigger than cycling. The sad part is, is the fact that his team and his sponsers all contribute to "Livestrong" and as much as I think LA is an arrogant bloke the organisation still contributes a hell of alot to Cancer research and without sponsers, a team and a tarnished reputation, millions of dollars a year would be lost to this. If I had a family member suffering with cancer, I would be reluctant to want to see him busted as much as I think he cheats.
Hope all is well Chuck, It has been a while
Grant
- xavdav
- Posts: 236
- Joined: Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:37 pm
- Location: Sydney
- Contact:
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby xavdav » Fri May 21, 2010 8:34 pm
My Father suffered of cancer for 6 years before being defeated by it. From what I have seen, looking at him fighting and finally giving up in the last three months of his life (it is very marking when you are a 18 years old), there is no way you could recover like LA did without PED; Chemotherapy side effects are that many of your red cells are destroyed and trying to run or ride a bike while recovering leave you as breathless as if you were doing it at a 6000 m altitude (dito the cancerologist that was looking after my father), It was in the mid 80's and there was no EPO then. In the 90's chemotherapy did not get better in regards of it side effects, but everybody knows that EPO made its apparition. LA should have been a crippled man, instead he wins the toughest race in the world .Grant W wrote:I dont know about that Chuck.
If Armstrong was found to be positive tomorrow my first thought would be surprise, surprise!!
it's the casual cyclist and younger generation who are a little blind looking to Lance as a riding "God" that would be..... "Surprised" and that is sad for them.
I dont think LA is bigger than cycling. The sad part is, is the fact that his team and his sponsers all contribute to "Livestrong" and as much as I think LA is an arrogant bloke the organisation still contributes a hell of alot to Cancer research and without sponsers, a team and a tarnished reputation, millions of dollars a year would be lost to this. If I had a family member suffering with cancer, I would be reluctant to want to see him busted as much as I think he cheats.
Hope all is well Chuck, It has been a while
Grant
I believe Flandis got support from LA when he got in trouble with the AFDL (the frog agency in charge of doping infringement on the TDF), he backed him up and claimed like him that they were a bunch of clowns that did not know what they were doing. Well take that LA, Flandis credibility is probably as badly rated as yours
- sogood
- Posts: 17168
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
- Location: Sydney AU
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby sogood » Fri May 21, 2010 9:11 pm
Perfectly feasible, it's "too big to fall" like many of the current financial institutions.Chuck wrote:Conclusion, Armstrong too big (he is bigger than cycling) cycling can't afford to have him tarnished. Landis, just big enough to show we're fair dinkum about cleaning up the sport, but not so big as to do any long term damage.
But no one here can categorically say one way or another.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
- sogood
- Posts: 17168
- Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:31 am
- Location: Sydney AU
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby sogood » Fri May 21, 2010 9:18 pm
What you have presumed are,xavdav wrote:My Father suffered of cancer for 6 years before being defeated by it. From what I have seen, looking at him fighting and finally giving up in the last three months of his life (it is very marking when you are a 18 years old), there is no way you could recover like LA did without PED; Chemotherapy side effects are that many of your red cells are destroyed and trying to run or ride a bike while recovering leave you as breathless as if you were doing it at a 6000 m altitude (dito the cancerologist that was looking after my father), It was in the mid 80's and there was no EPO then. In the 90's chemotherapy did not get better in regards of it side effects, but everybody knows that EPO made its apparition. LA should have been a crippled man, instead he wins the toughest race in the world
1) PED is a magic bullet... FALSE! PED does not turn a physically incompetent person into a sporting superhuman.
2) "Chemotherapy" is homogenous... FALSE! Chemos aren't homogenous, the cocktail mix varies widely depending on the disease and clinical status. And side effects vary greatly on the individual. Age, dosage and the particular cocktail mix all matters. If the chemo indeed destroyed LA's cardioresp reserve, then no amount of EPO could have been able to put him back on top.
So sorry, your n=1 experience is an inadequate basis for an objective conclusion.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
- toolonglegs
- Posts: 15463
- Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
- Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby toolonglegs » Fri May 21, 2010 9:30 pm
- AUbicycles
- Site Admin
- Posts: 15592
- Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:14 am
- Location: Sydney & Frankfurt
- Contact:
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby AUbicycles » Fri May 21, 2010 11:02 pm
I will translate this:sogood wrote:So sorry, your n=1 experience is an inadequate basis for an objective conclusion.
While I value your input I believe that there are other factors that come into play.
--
Lances reply is ... well, 100% what you would expect to hear:
(crappy sound).
-
- Posts: 611
- Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2009 5:37 pm
- Location: 17th green, Glenelg Golf Course
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby shiv » Fri May 21, 2010 11:17 pm
- toolonglegs
- Posts: 15463
- Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
- Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!
Re: Flandis finally comes Clean about doping. Names LA & co
Postby toolonglegs » Sat May 22, 2010 12:07 am
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-ra ... rom-landis
Return to “International and National Tours and Events”
- General Australian Cycling Topics
- Info / announcements
- Buying a bike / parts
- General Cycling Discussion
- The Bike Shed
- Cycling Health
- Cycling Safety and Advocacy
- Women's Cycling
- Bike & Gear Reviews
- Cycling Trade
- Stolen Bikes
- Bicycle FAQs
- The Market Place
- Member to Member Bike and Gear Sales
- Want to Buy, Group Buy, Swap
- My Bikes or Gear Elsewhere
- Serious Biking
- Audax / Randonneuring
- Retro biking
- Commuting
- MTB
- Recumbents
- Fixed Gear/ Single Speed
- Track
- Electric Bicycles
- Cyclocross and Gravel Grinding
- Dragsters / Lowriders / Cruisers
- Children's Bikes
- Cargo Bikes and Utility Cycling
- Road Racing
- Road Biking
- Training
- Time Trial
- Triathlon
- International and National Tours and Events
- Cycle Touring
- Touring Australia
- Touring Overseas
- Touring Bikes and Equipment
- Australia
- Western Australia
- New South Wales
- Queensland
- South Australia
- Victoria
- ACT
- Tasmania
- Northern Territory
- Country & Regional
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: P!N20
- All times are UTC+10:00
- Top
- Delete cookies
About the Australian Cycling Forums
The Australian Cycling Forums is a welcoming community where you can ask questions and talk about the type of bikes and cycling topics you like.
Bicycles Network Australia
Forum Information
Connect with BNA
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.