cleat angles

[Wayfarer]

I was observing my knee after an hour of pedalling with a former national tri****ete today (pardon the language!) and observed my knee making what would look like an 8 formation if someone was looking from the front. I remembered a website talking about cleat contact angles, and thought i probably needed to get a professinal fit. Checked the bank, and it's definitely not happening soon.. But the mate told me I could use the 'paperclip' for 1mm angle or 'cabletie' for 2mm of angling. I think it'll be a good temporary fix for the next few weeks, so I was wondering if anyone had any experience with these little tricks? And if anyone knows if there's a method of knowing whether it's meant to go on the middle to the outside of the cleat?

Cheers - Dave

[mikesbytes]

Why do you think you need to change the angle of the cleat? What type of cleats are you using?

[Wayfarer]

My knee is doing an 8 formation when viewed from the front, so i figure it's not angled properly (good fore-aft and decent lateral/medial placement). They're Shimano SPD-SL cleats

[mikesbytes]

Not that familiar with SL's, do they have a rock built into the float?

I curious, if you knee is moving in a figure 8, how do you expect that changing the angle will stop it doing a figure 8?

[Wayfarer]

I was reading up on some articles on foot position, and had read this happens because of a bad foot angle on the pedal. My browser's gone and deleted everything now.. but i refound this http://www.excelsports.com/inform.asp?page=31


btw, SPDSL's are the racing cleats from Shimano, these dudes;

[mikesbytes]

Yeh I know what SL's look like, but I don't know how the float works on them.

The link discusses rectifying where your knee points inwards, which is quite common. Does your knee point inwards?

I had the problem where I would point my heel inwards and rectified it by going to 0% float cleats (Look delta) which removed the ability to rotate the heal. BUT you shouldn't install 0% float cleats unless you are 100% sure you can set them up 100% correct.

[rustychisel]

Yeh I know what SL's look like, but I don't know how the float works on them.

The link discusses rectifying where your knee points inwards, which is quite common. Does your knee point inwards?

I had the problem where I would point my heel inwards and rectified it by going to 0% float cleats (Look delta) which removed the ability to rotate the heal. BUT you shouldn't install 0% float cleats unless you are 100% sure you can set them up 100% correct.

Excellent point.

Wayfarer, you shouldn't be looking at this in simple terms of 'cleat' and 'knee' and 'figure 8', the biomechanics of the spine and legs are far more complex than people give credit for. I'm not an expert (by any means), but... a homily, if I may. A good riding friend of mine always had a wobbly right leg - I could see his knee describing an in and out circular motion as he rode - and when we discussed it he wanted a solution, even though he'd never identified it himself. He was a big strong lad, rode Look Deltas on a alu Pinarello, bags of strength in the sprints. As we considered the possibilities we came to the following conclusion, and there was little could be done for his positioning as a result.... he'd been in a car accident 15 years earlier, had damaged his right hip in that accident which caused moderate issues with his leg tracking. This is what we saw with his knee describing a vague figure 8 motion. Put that together with some residual twisting of the spine, and there was nothing specific we could do with his shoes/cleats/ positioning on the bike. Changes made 'on the fly' would have likely caused other, more serious issues to arise. It was up to him to follow through with some physio etc to see whether any other solution became a possibility.

[Wayfarer]

THanks guys; my knee does point inwards, which is what got my attention in the first place.. I noticed it on the guy in front, then realised i had it too, plus it was bobbing side to side with each pedal stroke (as the ankle tried to keep the knee from twisting). Rusty, i think you're right, and this can't be fixed with backyard techniques. I think i'll take it easy till i can get a proper fit

[Nobody]

You could always try flat pedals for a while to see if it changes anything or helps. At least you can change your foot angle on the fly to see if it makes any difference.