Restor or Re- interpret - that is the question!
- uMP2k
- Posts: 618
- Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:22 pm
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
Restor or Re- interpret - that is the question!
Postby uMP2k » Thu Oct 11, 2007 6:57 pm
Well the time has come to decide what to do with the old frame and I am torn between restoring it original (or as close as I can get) or building the mean steel roadie that I just know I need to go with my Aluminium Masil.
The bike in question started life as a Repco badged Nishiki Tri-a from about 1986 (actually branded a "Repco Nishiki" for some reason that year). Tange 1 frame (I think - recollection a bit hazy on this and internet sources are confused) with Shimano 600 component set. Here are a couple of pictures of what it would have looked like as new (taken from a US site):
In it's last incarnation I had it set up with a mix of 8spd Chorus and the original Shimano parts and used it for my daily commute:
As a result of the accident the wheels were trashed and the right hand side seat stay bent, along with the forks.
I have also sold off or given away most of the components from the bike, so I am working with a pretty much clean slate.
So, back to my delimma. One part of me would like to restore it as close to original as possible, while the other part of me would love to see the frame (which fits me just perfectly) repaired and fitted with a new fork (carbon even!) and a nice shiny modern Campag groupset and wheels.
Now, as I am posting this on the Retro forum I think I know what most of the responses are going to be, but I would still like to hear some comments.
Over to you!
Edited so that it doesn't cause screen scrolling
-
- Posts: 680
- Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:31 pm
- Location: South East Melbourne
Postby crog » Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:40 pm
It is listed in the Cecil thread and this is a bike where I am putting on a new groupset (well ultegra 9 speed) and trying to souce new items from ebay etc.
I am happy with my result and seeing yours will likely need to go to a frame builder you could follow my lead.
While not quite retro it will be individual as you can see
Che
- uMP2k
- Posts: 618
- Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:22 pm
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
Postby uMP2k » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:36 pm
Actually it was the thread on your Cecil Walker frame that got me really thinking about my old frame. While it is not the lightest frame around (even for steel) it fits me very well and has some features that I really like and which I would be struggling to find on another bike. For example I just love the fully interal cable routing (rear brake and both gear cables) for example:crog wrote:I had a old frame sent to a frame builder and had stays widened and it modernised to fit a latter groupset and it was relatively cheap
It is listed in the Cecil thread and this is a bike where I am putting on a new groupset (well ultegra 9 speed) and trying to souce new items from ebay etc.
I am happy with my result and seeing yours will likely need to go to a frame builder you could follow my lead.
While not quite retro it will be individual as you can see
Che
and
-
- Posts: 680
- Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:31 pm
- Location: South East Melbourne
Postby crog » Thu Oct 11, 2007 8:47 pm
I dont know much about bikes and got back into it through the mountain bike for fitness then a bet for around the bay in a day, then the frame came along on so on...
It appears steel frames are popular again and whilst I believe mine has some pedigree i lucked out more through good luck than good fortune.
If it need to go the frame builder and you get it resprayed and modernised like mine it makes finding bits easier and I think you will have something unique particuarily with the cable routing.
I think I have you only need to look at the BB on mine and how cables are run above when I took it to the BS to get headset pressed in all the mechanics were fawning over it whilst some $5000 carbon thing was being assembled next to it which nobody batted an eye at.
I think yours with cable routing will be similar.
Che
- europa
- Posts: 7334
- Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:51 am
- Location: southern end of Adelaide - home of hills, fixies and drop bears
Postby europa » Thu Oct 11, 2007 9:10 pm
Richard
- tallywhacker
- Posts: 1775
- Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:21 pm
- Location: Perth
Postby tallywhacker » Fri Oct 12, 2007 1:35 am
- Kid_Carbine
- Posts: 1300
- Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:35 pm
- Location: Southern Tablelands N.S.W.
Postby Kid_Carbine » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:31 am
I say, ditch ALL of the original components [sell them to somebody who wants them] & build what you really want to be riding.
Now that's AUSTRALIAN to the core.
- uMP2k
- Posts: 618
- Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:22 pm
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
Postby uMP2k » Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:44 am
Aldo is just the man that I will be taking it to - in fact the current yellow paint job is all his work from the last time (of many!) I rebuilt this frame . Planning to take it in to him in the near future to see if the rear seat stay is fixable and, if so, about increasing the rear spacing to 130mm.tallywhacker wrote:have a chat with Aldo at Quantum in North Perth. Does lovely work, knows his stuff (they say he can tell you the type of tubing by licking the frame) and does a great 2 pac finish. Here's the but...he is pricey
Actually, I have already disposed of pretty much all of the original parts (the rather lovely Shimano 600 cranks went off to their new home only this week!). My current main bike is all Campag Chorus/Centaur 10speed and I, having thought about it over the life of this thread, I think I probably will go the modernisation route. With the mix of misc Campag parts I have laying about and moving some of the parts of my main bike when I upgrade them (ergo leavers and brake caliphers in particular) I think that will be the way to go. Then all I need is a new fork and some nice Campag wheels.Kid_Carbine wrote:Well, the forks are trash, the original components are mostly gone, & lets face it, it's not likely to become a collector classic anytime soon, so why not make something nice from what you have.
I say, ditch ALL of the original components [sell them to somebody who wants them] & build what you really want to be riding.
Hmmmm, sounds like my mind is almost made up.....
-
- Posts: 680
- Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2007 8:31 pm
- Location: South East Melbourne
- GaryF
- Posts: 1201
- Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:38 am
- Location: Near Bundaberg, Queensland.
Postby GaryF » Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:00 am
I think a frame that fits you 'like a glove' is most important and often riders have to fit the frame to get a good position. You can just tell if a bike suits you. I don't think the extra frame weight, of your frame, is that important. It is built with nice tubing anyway.
I agree that internal cable routing is very unusual and I would be trying to get the frame back on the road too. In fact, if it can be repaired, and it definately looks possible, I'd be getting it done even if it meant putting it off for a while to help finance the job.
As for the groupset (I'm a fan of country or origin bikes Italian with Italian, Japanese with Japanese, etc.):
1. On that bike (Japanese built) I'd be looking for a Shimano Durace groupset from the mid 90's. It looks as if you had a similar vintage component setup on it originally.
2. Then again, who buys all the really good Campagnolo stuff on ebay? Ans: The Japanese. I suppose if you were in Japan you would see Japanese frames (They seem to like Italian frames too) with Campagnolo groupsets. You have Campy. stuff laying around - it would also look good on the bike.
Which ever way you go I do think the frame is worth repairing.
Best of luck,
Gary.
- europa
- Posts: 7334
- Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:51 am
- Location: southern end of Adelaide - home of hills, fixies and drop bears
- uMP2k
- Posts: 618
- Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:22 pm
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
Postby uMP2k » Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:12 pm
Thanks for your comments Gary, I agree that fit is really the most important thing on a bike, which is one of the main reasons I am planning to repair/rebuild this frame - it really does fit well.GaryF wrote:I think a frame that fits you 'like a glove' is most important and often riders have to fit the frame to get a good position. You can just tell if a bike suits you. I don't think the extra frame weight, of your frame, is that important. It is built with nice tubing anyway.
I love my current Aluminium frame, but there is a part of me that definately misses the "look" of a classic lugged steel frame. And the internal cable routing is something that attracted me to the frame way back when I first bought the bike (in a very unloved state at a local cash converters) over 10 years ago.GaryF wrote:I agree that internal cable routing is very unusual and I would be trying to get the frame back on the road too. In fact, if it can be repaired, and it definately looks possible, I'd be getting it done even if it meant putting it off for a while to help finance the job.
It is certainly going to be a long term project and will no doubt take some time to get together the parts and money for the rebuilt. Still it gives me something to do!
I think I have now pretty much decided I will go with a 10speed Campy setup - it is what I have on my other bike and it would be nice to be consistent. On top of that I think that some nice pre-carbon Chorus components would look very very smooth on a steel frame! Now I wishi I had not sold those Chorus caliphers I had. Oh well, maybe a nice set of new Centaur skeleton brakes would look good.... am I getting ahead of myself or whatGaryF wrote:As for the groupset (I'm a fan of country or origin bikes Italian with Italian, Japanese with Japanese, etc.) ... You have Campy. stuff laying around - it would also look good on the bike.
Thanks - will be sure to keep the board updated on any progress.GaryF wrote:Which ever way you go I do think the frame is worth repairing.
Best of luck,
Gary.
- uMP2k
- Posts: 618
- Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:22 pm
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
Postby uMP2k » Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:38 am
BTW, got out the tape measure on the weekend and it seems that the bike already has a 130mm spacing at the back (vague recollection that I might have had this done sometime in the past, but really cannot be sure) which is even better!
- europa
- Posts: 7334
- Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:51 am
- Location: southern end of Adelaide - home of hills, fixies and drop bears
Postby europa » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:24 am
Never complain about a 'cheap fix' when rebuilding bikesuMP2k wrote:BTW, got out the tape measure on the weekend and it seems that the bike already has a 130mm spacing at the back (vague recollection that I might have had this done sometime in the past, but really cannot be sure) which is even better!
Richard
- uMP2k
- Posts: 618
- Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:22 pm
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
Postby uMP2k » Mon Oct 15, 2007 10:30 am
Definately no complaints here - that means that as long as the seat stay is fixable/replaceable and the frame builder doesn't detect any other problems then it should be good to go.europa wrote:Never complain about a 'cheap fix' when rebuilding bikesuMP2k wrote:BTW, got out the tape measure on the weekend and it seems that the bike already has a 130mm spacing at the back (vague recollection that I might have had this done sometime in the past, but really cannot be sure) which is even better!
Richard
I am busy scouring the internet for ideas for the paint job. I like the current yellow, but am thinking that something more classic and maybe highlighting the lugs might be nice.
I am hoping to get hold of an old Repco headbadge (hence my interest above) and get the framebuilder to braze that on as well. If i cannot come up with a Repco one I will probably go with a Nishiki headbadge from the US. Also already planning to get some decals made up as close to the original as possible (see pictures on the bike at the very top of thread).
- LuckyPierre
- Posts: 1432
- Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 4:37 pm
- Location: Canberra, ACT
Postby LuckyPierre » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:04 pm
It looks like it is a pretty small frame - I have a bashed around Kinesis 1 inch carbon fork if you're interested (it turned out to be 5 mm too short in the steerer for Enzo) or you could get a new one (and a Chorus threaded headset) via eBay from the US.
Alchemy Diablo - Columbus Zonal tubing, Ultegra 9-speed groupset, UltraGatorskins
Gitane Rocks T1 - U6 tubing, Deore/XT groupset, CrossMarks
- uMP2k
- Posts: 618
- Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:22 pm
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
Postby uMP2k » Mon Oct 15, 2007 2:31 pm
I might well take you up on that offer!LuckyPierre wrote:I'm glad that you're fixing it.
It looks like it is a pretty small frame - I have a bashed around Kinesis 1 inch carbon fork if you're interested (it turned out to be 5 mm too short in the steerer for Enzo) or you could get a new one (and a Chorus threaded headset) via eBay from the US.
Yes it is a fairly small fram at least in height. 52cm seat tube c/c but a 54cm top tube c/c - which it turns out is just about perfect for me. My other Road bike has a frame which is 54cm in both directions, which works fine, but does not give me too much clearance - maybe only a centimetre and a bit.
Mmmmm - just found this nice Nishiki headbadge on ebay in the US:
Very nice, I have also found a couple of nice Campag headsets (as per suggestion) I am getting more and more excited by this project
- uMP2k
- Posts: 618
- Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:22 pm
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
Postby uMP2k » Fri Nov 09, 2007 4:03 pm
(click for larger image)
Years ago when I was first trying to find out more about my Repco Tri-A I came across some suggestions that ithe model was significantly influenced (okay a cheap rip off ) of a much more expensive bike. Not sure if Gary's Benotto is the model in question, but the Repco (Nishiki) certainly shares the fairly unusual full internal cable routing and although it is no where near as tight in the rear spacing it has a a very similiar seatpost/stay cluster. The Repco is a 1985/86 model and Gary is guessing '84 for the Benotto so the timing would certainly fit.
In any case, that is another beautiful bike Gary!
-
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:06 pm
- Location: Brisbane
Postby steelcowboy » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:33 pm
I agree with Richard. I'd also go for new componentry. I'm currently refreshing the same frame, only it isn't dinged up.
If you can afford to fix it, do it.
-
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:06 pm
- Location: Brisbane
Postby steelcowboy » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:37 pm
Question: were those 700c or 27inch wheels? My frame originally ran 27' wheels and my LBS guy says I need deep drop calipers to reach the 700c ones I'm putting on. Your calipers look standard size?
- uMP2k
- Posts: 618
- Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:22 pm
- Location: Perth, Western Australia
Postby uMP2k » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:55 pm
I got the bike very very second hand and I am pretty sure the original wheels were 700c. Certainly never had any problem running 700c wheels with any of the various brake caliphers I have had on it over the years (includes the original Shimano 600, some Shimano 600 AX aero, Shimano RX100s and finally some Campag Chorus dual pivot caliphers).steelcowboy wrote:uMP2k
Question: were those 700c or 27inch wheels? My frame originally ran 27' wheels and my LBS guy says I need deep drop calipers to reach the 700c ones I'm putting on. Your calipers look standard size?
So is the frame you have the Yellow and Black one with internal cable routing? If so, does it still have the original paint job and decals - would love to see some photos.
- europa
- Posts: 7334
- Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:51 am
- Location: southern end of Adelaide - home of hills, fixies and drop bears
Postby europa » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:09 pm
It depends on the frame. If the frame was originally built with lots of clearance so you can run mudguards and fat tyres, and designed for 27" wheels, shifting to 700c requires very long reach calipers which the modern brakes tend not to be, though Tektro make dual pivot calipers that will do the job. If however, the bike was designed with closer tolerances, you may not have a problem, as MichaelB discovered recently with his Eagle.steelcowboy wrote:uMP2k
Question: were those 700c or 27inch wheels? My frame originally ran 27' wheels and my LBS guy says I need deep drop calipers to reach the 700c ones I'm putting on. Your calipers look standard size?
So, like all cycling advice ... 'it depends'
Richard
-
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 5:06 pm
- Location: Brisbane
Postby steelcowboy » Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:45 pm
It's sitting in the trusted hands of the LBS at the moment but when it gets back I'll post some pics and take you through the build. My LBS is doing all the work but I'll have a lot of say in what goes on so I'll be looking forward to some advice from the forum.
I'm going to post it in the Repco Appreciation Society thread when I start in earnest.
Make sure you keep us updated as to what happens with your ride too!
Cheers,
Steve
- General Australian Cycling Topics
- Info / announcements
- Buying a bike / parts
- General Cycling Discussion
- The Bike Shed
- Cycling Health
- Cycling Safety and Advocacy
- Women's Cycling
- Bike & Gear Reviews
- Cycling Trade
- Stolen Bikes
- Bicycle FAQs
- Serious Biking
- Audax / Randonneuring
- Retro biking
- Commuting
- MTB
- Recumbents
- Fixed Gear/ Single Speed
- Track
- Electric Bicycles
- Cyclocross and Gravel Grinding
- Dragsters / Lowriders / Cruisers
- Children's Bikes
- Cargo Bikes and Utility Cycling
- Road Racing
- Road Biking
- Training
- Time Trial
- Triathlon
- International and National Tours and Events
- Cycle Touring
- Touring Australia
- Touring Overseas
- Touring Bikes and Equipment
- Australia
- Western Australia
- New South Wales
- Queensland
- South Australia
- Victoria
- ACT
- Tasmania
- Northern Territory
- Country & Regional
- The Market Place
- Member to Member Bike and Gear Sales
- Want to Buy, Group Buy, Swap
- My Bikes or Gear Elsewhere
- Cycling Brands
- Cannondale
- Garmin
- Giant
- Shimano
- Trek
- All times are UTC+11:00
- Top
- Delete cookies
About the Australian Cycling Forums
The Australian Cycling Forums is a welcoming community where you can ask questions and talk about the type of bikes and cycling topics you like.
Bicycles Network Australia
Forum Information
Connect with BNA
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.