Jamis Build Thread

Workshop tales, trials and disasters.
Maintenance tips, techniques and myths.
Technical discussion, description and outright lies

Postby europa » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:14 pm

Gear cables fitted. No, I haven't got them working yet, that is a whole other disaster which I'll attend to after a hot coffee 8)

Image

Mitch, these outer cables were cut to length - basically, you want the outers as short as possible while NOT pulling tight before the handlebars hit the frame ie, the bars should be able to swing full turn either way without pulling up against the cables. This results in the slightly too long look here. The outers are very stiff and that makes them look a bit awkward when new.

If you look (or look at your own bike), you'll see where the outers end at the shifter at one end and the stopper on the frame at the other.

The gear cables push in through the shifters from the opposite of the shifter to the outer and a knob on the end of the cable pulls up against the seat in the shifter.

Here's the back end

Image

Here you can see the bare cable coming into the outer, following that curve around up and over the dr, then exiting the outer to be connected to the dr.

Basically, you use the outers when the cable has to follow a curve. When the cable runs straight, it's generally in the open with a stopper at each to hold the outers.

Richard
I hope you lot are making sure I'm getting this right. Even allowing the outside chance that I know what I'm doing, there's always the option of making a mistake in the description and misleading someone :oops:
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by BNA » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:17 pm

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Postby europa » Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:17 pm

Now, coffee, install chain, remove chain because I realise I've either removed too many links or not removed enough, reinstall chain, remove chain because I've missed a pulley in the dr, reinstall chain, throw a tantrum because I've stuffed something else up, reinstall chain, then it's adjust the gears. Easy enough to do if you're patient.

At this rate, I'll be doing the school run on her tomorrow morning ... err ... that means Expressway Hill :shock:

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Postby heavymetal » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:10 pm

Be careful with the last rear gear cable outer. If you make it too short it will get snagged in the BOB trailer mountings when it is mounted :D

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Postby europa » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:28 pm

heavymetal wrote:Be careful with the last rear gear cable outer. If you make it too short it will get snagged in the BOB trailer mountings when it is mounted :D

Kev.


It's okay, the dog's trailer is a single sided mount and goes on the other side **pokes out tongue**

Just spent half an hour trying to get the rear dr to work - I hadn't caught the cable end in the rotten shifter, despite it looking like it was snugged home properly.

Stupidly, when it didn't work, instead of giving the siamese a flying lesson and then tearing everything apart, I did the 'right' thing and fired up the various 'how to articles'. Sheldon - useless. Park Tools - useless. Shimano Australia - useless. Shimano Japan - oh, velly solly, you must install Japanese characters to read our technical pages. So I downloaded the rotten things and installed them ... and the document didn't have a single Japanese character in sight, but it did confirm what I suspected - the cable hadn't caught behind the lever.

So I gave the siamese a flying lesson and tore the ruddy thing apart. Sure enough, if I'd done that in the first place, I would have been able to see what was clearly obvious now.

Lesson 1 - don't mess your head with the documents. Screw around by first principals and it's all obvious (even Park Tools adjustment procedure doesn't vary much from first principals).

Lesson 2 - don't hook up the brakes until after you've done the gears, it makes things soooo much easier ... which is why I did it the other way around of course :roll:

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Postby Kalgrm » Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:44 pm

Can I borrow your Siamese? I need to adjust my RD on the MTB soon ..... :)
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Postby europa » Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:14 pm

SHE'S BEEN RIDEN

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Finished her just before dusk and went for a quick spin in the street. A whopping 0.6 km :shock: Hit a frightening maximum of 28 km/hr.

Image

:D

Seriously, it was right on dusk so I just went up and down the street a bit. All the gears worked smoothly and cleanly. The brakes are amazing. The wheels are creaking (hmm, my stress relieving wasn't as effective as I thought :roll: )

What was she like? Felt very good and very comfy ... comfortable enough to survive a staggering 0.6 km anyway :wink: Seriously, she felt very good. Accelerates and stops nicely. Seems nicely balanced.

My son's comment was that I looked very comfortable, much more so than I look on the Trek.

So tomorrow, the hard work starts - the school run :shock: unless it's raining :roll: If she continues to feel good, I'll probably head on to Glenelg.

The weight? 12.5 kg

Still things to do. Fix that brake bolt (the one with the nut as a spacer). Replace the silver neck spacers with black. Fit the carrier. Give the wheels a workout and re-true them. Get a rear light fitted. Fine tune the fit. New seat post coming.

Total cost for a Full Ultegra bike with Velocity DeepV wheels (new frame, new wheels, young components) $846.66 :D

But she lives and felt great :D

Richard
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Postby MountGower » Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:23 pm

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Postby europa » Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:31 pm

Thanks mate.

And now it's raining outside, with predictions that it'll last till tomorrow :(

At least I got my test ride in before the rain. I can wait now :D

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Postby Hotdog » Tue Nov 20, 2007 8:39 pm

Congrats Richard, she looks great. It's been interesting and informative following the illustrated build process :) Hope the rain holds off for you so you can take her for a proper spin really soon.
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Postby toolonglegs » Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:12 pm

Noice job mate...looks like a sweet ride.
One serious looking jump from middle ring to granny..you heading to the Adelaide Alpes? :D
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Postby inaminit » Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:15 pm

Hey Richard....nice work there mate. Hope the skies clear and you get out and enjoy her :lol:

Gotta say, I've been watching the build with great interest as I'm thinking about stripping back the old Giant, getting her resprayed, and setting her up as a "flash" runaround.
Anthony
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Postby Kalgrm » Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:52 pm

Excellent job Richard. Well done with both the build and putting up with the showtime Shaun and I flung your way. You handled everything with aplomb!

Cool bike .....

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Postby Kid_Carbine » Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:17 am

europa wrote:The wheels are creaking (hmm, my stress relieving wasn't as effective as I thought :roll: )

Richard
Congratulations & it earns my highest praise for a modern bike, .... nice colour.
OK OK OK, it's a bloody nice machine & few will ever pick that it's a composite of pre loved & new elements, & that funny jingling sound? That's the $1,000 change on the price of a new one.

As for your wheels, you have discovered that the spokes will 'stress relieve' in use very quickly at first & will need attention within the first day. The first time I used stainless spokes in a new pair of wheels, I rode about 200 yards & gave the spokes a squeeze. I couldn't believe just how much softer that had become in such a short journey, so the wheels were removed & the tyres stripped, then they were placed back in the wheel truing stand for another go.

Second journey was about 5 miles [8k] & I did them again, but they needed a lot less attention.
Pulled them at the end of the first week after the owner [a friend] had put about 100 miles [160k] on them & sure enough, they benefited from a little extra attention. I did them once more at the end of a month, then annually after that for about 5 years & they needed only the most minor attention & remained TIGHT. It's been over 20 years now & I saw him about a year ago. [he had moved away] He said that he had sold the bike about 5 years earlier with more mileage on it than the average life-expired taxi & had never broken a spoke. [LBS had taken over the annual ritual]

Keep 'em snug, keep 'em forever.
OK, I lied about the taxi part.
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Postby stryker84 » Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:35 am

Kid_Carbine wrote:... that funny jingling sound? That's the $1,000 change on the price of a new one.

Oh? I thought that was them new-fangled gearchangey thingies... you know them derailers? Never had no jingle when you only had one gear... :twisted:
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Postby DavidH » Wed Nov 21, 2007 8:13 am

Well done Richard. I think you will inspire others to follow suit. I'm very tempted to find a "new" steel frame and strip the Dura-Ace components off the aluminium Giant (and replace the 11-23 with something more sensible).

Oh...and I love that you logged the 0.6km in bikejournal :D
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Postby MichaelB » Wed Nov 21, 2007 10:14 am

europa wrote:SHE'S BEEN RIDEN

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Finished her just before dusk and went for a quick spin in the street. A whopping 0.6 km :shock: Hit a frightening maximum of 28 km/hr.


Hehehe, well done.

I think I beat you on two occasions last night. Rode der Adler at 7:30pm, and rode for 750m !!!

Anyway, the wheel you built still holds together, and your bike looks bloody fine !!

Enjoy it now !!!
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Postby europa » Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:22 am

Thanks all. It's been fun and looks like it'll continue to be fun - this bike has all the signs of becoming a battle scarred veteran :D

I did the school run today, then continued on to Glenelg ie, down the Expressway, across to the beach, along the beach front, back up the Sturt River Linear Park, up the Expressway and home.

46km :D

She's a lovely ride. Smooth. Secure. Stable but with a very fast change of direction. Seems to be rather fast too ... in an upright stance sort of way :roll:

The brakes are so good they're bloody frightening - three lockups on the rear today :shock: and that's from someone used to moderating his brakes. I'll be backing them right off but will have to loosen the cable to do so.

The wheels chatted and discussed life for the first km or so, then were dead silent from then on. This thing is a real stealth bomber. I do get a creak/click from one spoke in the front wheel under braking. I haven't gone looking for it yet - it sound's like a spoke creaking but could also be something tapping the spoke under braking. The front wheel had developed a slight wiggle when the tyres went up to full pressure but a few kms on the road removed that (obviously the tyre) - the mould release feather in the centre of the wheel spins dead true :D First retrue is scheduled for a couple of hundred km down the track unless I find a reason to do so before then (was half expecting to have to do it after the first ride).

Climb? It's like a cat up a tree. Higher gears used all round. I did consider dropping the low granny, but it doesn't hurt to have it there and while loafing up Expressway Hill with my HR in the mid to low 150's, I thought to myself - climbing hills doesn't have to be hard, why make it so? Compare that attitude to some of my posts from a year ago.

Along the beach front. Dead flat. Wind on my shoulder so probably some assistance there. I was cruising with my hands on the bend of the bars (on the tops, where it goes from outwards to forwards, my favourite cruising spot). Heart rate in the mid 130s. Cadence in the low to mid 80's. 43km/hr on the speedo :D

Obviously a couple of kilos of weight and better rolling resistance make a difference :D (surprises everywhere aren't there :roll: )

Comfort wise? Pretty darned good ... once I got the Brooks at the right angle. No problems at all in my left hand. My right hand (which has the diccy shoulder) went numb at one point but no-where near as bad as normal. Excellent set up methinks with some fine tuning to come. She rides the rough really well too - a very comfy bike to ride.

One of the joys of a high top tube is waiting at the lights, one leg on the ground, other foot clipped in, thigh leaning on the top tube - very relaxing.

Thanks to a blustery head wind at times (in all directions dammit), I spent a lot of time down on the drops. No problems there - it isn't my preferred position but I can ride them comfortably for Mike like aerodynamics :D

All in all, a very promising shake down. The project has delivered all I asked it to :D

Coming home, the mind kept saying "let's go further, let's go further" ... and the body kept grumbling "sod off and try doing some of the hard work for a change" :roll:

Richard
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Postby europa » Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:24 am

MichaelB wrote:I think I beat you on two occasions last night. Rode der Adler at 7:30pm, and rode for 750m !!!

Anyway, the wheel you built still holds together, and your bike looks bloody fine !!


Great news. Different world isn't it :D
As Kid reminded us, that wheel'll need retruing fairly soon. Check for wiggles and listend for creaks. We can do it over a coffee and bull session :D

Richard
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Postby Bnej » Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:33 am

So we're still in the initial, "new bike is perfect for everything" stage, now we have one month before the first modifications, three months before it's in the dog house for some issue, and six months before he needs a new one. ;)
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Postby europa » Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:54 am

Too right mate. I'm considering frame building now :D

Richard
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Postby Birdman » Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:19 pm

Great work.

Its good to finally get out and ride it isnt it. I bet you sitting there right now looking at it thinking. "Yeah i could just duck down to the shop and grab...i dunno...i tig welder or something", just do it.

It is a fine piece of work.

Thanks for all the information. Can't wait to see the first frame :lol: :lol:

Mitch.
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Until next time...
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Postby Dave A » Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:41 pm

Great work Richard, i cant wait to see it.
If you're keen for a Willunga pasty on Friday, drop by.
Ive got the day off :D
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Postby europa » Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:53 pm

The 'creaking' under brakes proved to be caused by the front brake not being properly centred. It wasn't far out and I'm not sure how it would cause the noise, but a small adjustment on the centering screw and the noise is gone :D

Richard
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Postby europa » Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:09 pm

Photo fit time :D

Here's a decent photo of the bike herself.

Image

Yes, the nose of the saddle does seem to need to be that high. Mind you, she's still wearing the cheap seat post and that is a nightmare to set. When I get the good one, I hope to be able to make finer movements and lower the nose a bit, though not much as that leads to sliding forwards off the seat. Surprisingly, that amount of nose up is quite comfortable. The seat could also lift a little, but again, I'll fuss with that when I get the good seat post (and fussing is all that's needed).

Me on the tops.

Image

Forward onto the hoods, my normal riding position. My elbows actually have more bend in them than appears in the photo, so obviously some of it is outwards as well as downwards.

Image

Down on the hooks, cheating the wind. I did a fair bit of this today with the headwind - it's quite comfortable and will be more so where there's a lot less of me.

Image

And the extreme. I rarely ride that low but it does show there's plenty of room there

Image

Bike fit being an evolutionary thing, it's not going to stay there, but at this stage, it probably won't move very much. Certainly I feel no urge to move the bars at this stage.

Richard
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Postby europa » Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:10 pm

Dave A wrote:Great work Richard, i cant wait to see it.
If you're keen for a Willunga pasty on Friday, drop by.
Ive got the day off :D


Willunga Bakery for lunch on friday then. What time do you want me at your place?

Richard
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