Wheel Build

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Wheel Build

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:16 pm

Have scored some Ultegra 36 spoke 9 speed hubs to do a wheel build with.

Only used by a little lady on Saturday and Sunday mornings.

First question, how much do the hubs weigh?
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by BNA » Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:53 am

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Postby Birdman » Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:53 am

So you have scored them? You haven't picked them up yet? Othewise you would know how heavy they are? :shock:

How did you get her to part with them?

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Postby europa » Wed Nov 21, 2007 11:55 am

Pity you didn't ask earlier, I could have weighed mine :D

What are you planning to do with them?

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Postby sogood » Wed Nov 21, 2007 12:36 pm

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Postby mikesbytes » Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:26 pm

I haven't picked them up, because they are at the place of the bloke who is going to build my wheels.

I intend to make new wheels for the OCR2, as the front rim has had it.

347g, that's light.

Next question? I have scored 1 36h velocity deep V rim. Should I buy 1 velocity deep V rim or should I consider other options. buying 2 rims?

Pros and cons of Velocity deep V
- half price (only need one)
- good aero
- bullet proof
- heavy

If I remember correctly Velocity deep V rims are 520gms each, so;

1040gms Velocity deep V rims
347gms Ultegra 9 speed hubs
====
1387gms so far
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Postby sogood » Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:45 pm

But your weight calculation is for only one hub. Add a front hub, spokes, nipples and skewer... :wink:

So are you suggesting that you'll rebuild your front with the existing hub? Is there enough life in that hub to make it worthwhile?
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Postby europa » Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:53 pm

Funny you should think them light Mike, just hefting them in my hand they felt rather heavy and I was thinking they'd put more into durability than plain weight. Maybe I was wrong - the only other hubs I've ever held on their own are track hubs.

On the rims, I don't know that the DeepVs would be a good choice for you, simply because of the weight. They do make a heavy wheel - I'm pretty sure I put the weight of mine (DeepV on Ultegra) in my wheel building thread, if not, I can whip them off and weight them, though that'd be misleading because they'd have the 28mm tyres fitted.

The Fusion is a lighter rim and by all accounts, just as strong in the real world. Tallywhacker and DB531 recommended them when I was looking for wheels for the Europa. The Aero is also worth looking at - lighter again but probably not as bullet proof, but maybe strong enough? I can weigh the Aeros on the lad's track bike if you're interested (and they've got 23mm tyres so the overall weight'd be more appropriate to you). You're not heavy and aren't going to be centre punching taxis on a regular basis.

I like my DeepV choice, but they did feel like wheels built to support a tank (appropriate on a steel frame?) and weight certainly wasn't a major consideration on my build.

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Postby mikesbytes » Wed Nov 21, 2007 2:54 pm

sogood wrote:But your weight calculation is for only one hub. Add a front hub, spokes, nipples and skewer... :wink:

So are you suggesting that you'll rebuild your front with the existing hub? Is there enough life in that hub to make it worthwhile?


So the 347gms was for the rear hub, then I need to add 140gms for the front hub.

140gms front hub
347gms rear hub
1040 gms for 2 velocity deep V rims
=====
1527 gms so far.

When they state weights for a wheel, they don't include the skewer and rim tape.

Now back to those hubs, the stated weight on that page are;
Rear: Average Weight: 347g (QR Weight-64g)
Front: Average Weight: 140g (QR Weight-60g)
Does that mean that the weight is including the skewers and to subtract 60gms each, or to add 60gms for the skewers?
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Postby sogood » Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:01 pm

I'd say that 347g is sans skewer weight.

If you check WW, they are listing that same hub for around 410g with skewer. So there you go, opportunity to swap in that 25g skewer of your. :wink:
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Postby MichaelB » Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:31 pm

What about spoke weight ?
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Postby mikesbytes » Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:46 pm

MichaelB wrote:What about spoke weight ?


Haven't decided on spokes yet. Considerations;
- price
- quality
- comfort
- strength

Passing thought about using double butted on the front and straight ones on the rear.

Another consideration is that 36 spokes is more than enough for an 82kg rider, particularly if using such stiff rims, so I probably don't need bullet proof spokes. Opinions?
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Postby sogood » Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:53 pm

Do you have a habit of breaking spokes on your existing and previous wheels?
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Postby mikesbytes » Wed Nov 21, 2007 3:59 pm

sogood wrote:Do you have a habit of breaking spokes on your existing and previous wheels?


Off memory;
1 rear spoke in 2002 on the (defunct) Europa
1 rear spoke in 2004 on the OCR2

Frames, seats, pedals, chains, hubs and rims are an entirely different matter. Not in Toolong territory but.
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Postby sogood » Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:03 pm

So lighter wheels are in your favour.
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Postby mikesbytes » Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:05 pm

Why do spokes break? Perhaps I've been lucky?
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Postby sogood » Wed Nov 21, 2007 4:11 pm

mikesbytes wrote:Why do spokes break? Perhaps I've been lucky?

Fatigue.

- Poor quality, manufacturing or material defect.
- Uneven stress concentration.
- Overloading.
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Postby Mulger bill » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:18 pm

Side impacts are a spoke killer.

IIRC, DB spokes are stronger than straight gauge.

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Postby mikesbytes » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:25 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Side impacts are a spoke killer.

IIRC, DB spokes are stronger than straight gauge.

Shaun


I'm thinking about transfer of power from me to the tarmac, which goes thru the spokes. Are spokes just spokes, or will stiffer spokes do a better job? Or is there bugger all difference so I should get whatever I can get cheap?
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Postby sogood » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:25 pm

Mulger bill wrote:Side impacts are a spoke killer.

User abuse. Or dog crossing... :wink:
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Postby mikesbytes » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:26 pm

sogood wrote:
Mulger bill wrote:Side impacts are a spoke killer.

User abuse. Or dog crossing... :wink:


Your've reminded me, I've broken 3 spokes, I broke a front spoke when I was knocked off my bike by a dog.
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Postby sogood » Wed Nov 21, 2007 9:30 pm

mikesbytes wrote:I'm thinking about transfer of power from me to the tarmac, which goes thru the spokes. Are spokes just spokes, or will stiffer spokes do a better job? Or is there bugger all difference so I should get whatever I can get cheap?

Oils ain't oils, so spokes ain't spokes.

Reading those gurus like Jobst etc, quality of spoke and build (evenness and correct tension) make a big difference. Poorly manufactured spokes are less able to withstand the stress and strain and will fail early.

You should aim for a stiff wheel that can last. Definitely don't want a one day wonder.
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Postby Birdman » Thu Nov 22, 2007 11:05 am

And in the spokes department, like a bike and every other thing.

Does material make a difference? Well obviously it does, but as in cost, strength and life?

Mitch.
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Postby mikesbytes » Thu Nov 22, 2007 1:09 pm

Spokes are like everything off, its a trade off between price, quality, weight, strength etc. Picking the sweet spot for your needs is more difficult.
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Postby mikesbytes » Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:11 pm

Was having a look at White Industry Hubs http://www.whiteind.com/road-HI-specs.html
74gms front hub
226gms rear hub
===
300gms total

Compared with Ultegra
140gms front hub
347gms rear hub
===
487gms total

If money was no object, I could save 187gms on the hubs :lol:
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Postby europa » Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:26 pm

That doesn't surprise me, the Ultegra hubs 'felt' heavy.
Mind you, they spin a dream :D

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