Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
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Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby puffdaddy » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:46 pm
Mike ,,,from NZ
Bike 2011 Scott ,,all good
Genius 27 sp flat bar ,modified with aerobars etc a strange beast but love it ,,kicks ass
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Re: Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby cpical » Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:53 pm
puffdaddy wrote:I have been training and racing on shimano WH-R 500's for some time,they are cheap as hell and have never given me any problems,,however I am looking at upgrading to either RS 80's or Ultegra, I have read claims that the like of the RS 80's can be 2-3 kph faster at 40 kph,,"A bold claim ?" I re-grease the bearings in the r 500's when new "Lithium grease" and have a set that have done over 20.000 km and still run fine,,Are the likes of the RS 80's etc going to make a difference worth the extra $$ ,I do very little sprint riding ,,mostly 100 plus km rides,,Does 400 gram's difference in a wheel set matter when sitting on a steady 40 kph ?,,I have a mate who has purchased a $ 17,000 bike and he appears no faster,,placebo or no placebo ?
Mike ,,,from NZ
Short answer: No.
But, go for it and report!
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Re: Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby trailgumby » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:10 pm
But yes, good wheels do make a difference. Comparing the entry-level Mavic XM117's to my Crossmax SLR's, you notice a dignificant difference in rolling resistance. Tyres, though, make more difference IMO.
For me though, as a wannabe mountain biker the main difference between the cheap and expensive wheels is in the rear hub. The SLR's have almost immediate take-up. That makes ratcheting and semi-track standing over techical obstacles so much easier to do with confidence. With el cheapo hubs, it might take up immediately ... or it might not. If it doesn't it's an emergency unclip and hoping you have somewhere safe to put your foot down without turning your ankle or toppling over and risking an injury.
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Re: Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby toolonglegs » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:16 pm
If you are already colse to your limit you may spend a year trying to get another get another 10w's out of your body after all.
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Re: Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby puffdaddy » Sun Oct 03, 2010 9:38 pm
Bike 2011 Scott ,,all good
Genius 27 sp flat bar ,modified with aerobars etc a strange beast but love it ,,kicks ass
- Burt 'Pigeon Racer' Jones
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Re: Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby Burt 'Pigeon Racer' Jones » Mon Oct 04, 2010 7:55 am
How heavy are you?!?!?!?!?!puffdaddy wrote:I did have a set of american classic 420's but they flexed like hell when climbing
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Re: Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby Parker » Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:09 am
Yes, they may not make you a faster rider, but a Carbon Wheel will climb much better because its stiffer and it will also absorb the vibration of the road a lot better, I found when I got new wheels that I was able to keep a consistent speed a lot more... um consistenly.Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Take zipp, for example 404's and compare them with 1080's for a regular normal person who goes out to ride there bike, there will be no difference, the normal everyday bike person is better off on 404's. Take a pro cyclist and 1080's will obviously provide much better performance capabilites, at least this is the discussion that I had with zipp not long ago.
Normally its people without the good wheels that say it doesn't make a difference, when you spend close to 4k on a wheel set, you will see a difference.
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Re: Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby Parker » Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:17 am
That being said, cpical can climb the !! BAN ME NOW FOR SWEARING !! out of pretty much every mountain he climbs, he's not humancpical wrote:puffdaddy wrote:I have been training and racing on shimano WH-R 500's for some time,they are cheap as hell and have never given me any problems,,however I am looking at upgrading to either RS 80's or Ultegra, I have read claims that the like of the RS 80's can be 2-3 kph faster at 40 kph,,"A bold claim ?" I re-grease the bearings in the r 500's when new "Lithium grease" and have a set that have done over 20.000 km and still run fine,,Are the likes of the RS 80's etc going to make a difference worth the extra $$ ,I do very little sprint riding ,,mostly 100 plus km rides,,Does 400 gram's difference in a wheel set matter when sitting on a steady 40 kph ?,,I have a mate who has purchased a $ 17,000 bike and he appears no faster,,placebo or no placebo ?
Mike ,,,from NZ
Short answer: No.
But, go for it and report!
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Re: Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby PortableDave » Mon Oct 04, 2010 2:26 pm
How many really get close to their limit though?toolonglegs wrote:If deep dish wheels save you 10w's at full speed over say a set of Kysriums....then that is a big difference.
If you are already colse to your limit you may spend a year trying to get another get another 10w's out of your body after all.
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Re: Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby toolonglegs » Mon Oct 04, 2010 5:50 pm
I know Puff Daddy is pushing his limits...the amount of training he is doing.PortableDave wrote:How many really get close to their limit though?toolonglegs wrote:If deep dish wheels save you 10w's at full speed over say a set of Kysriums....then that is a big difference.
If you are already colse to your limit you may spend a year trying to get another get another 10w's out of your body after all.
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Re: Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby Marty Moose » Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:54 pm
MM
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Re: Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby cpical » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:31 pm
I am not a climber, but I like it! Baw Baw was not so nice though!Parker wrote:That being said, cpical can climb the s*** out of pretty much every mountain he climbs, he's not humancpical wrote:puffdaddy wrote:I have been training and racing on shimano WH-R 500's for some time,they are cheap as hell and have never given me any problems,,however I am looking at upgrading to either RS 80's or Ultegra, I have read claims that the like of the RS 80's can be 2-3 kph faster at 40 kph,,"A bold claim ?" I re-grease the bearings in the r 500's when new "Lithium grease" and have a set that have done over 20.000 km and still run fine,,Are the likes of the RS 80's etc going to make a difference worth the extra $$ ,I do very little sprint riding ,,mostly 100 plus km rides,,Does 400 gram's difference in a wheel set matter when sitting on a steady 40 kph ?,,I have a mate who has purchased a $ 17,000 bike and he appears no faster,,placebo or no placebo ?
Mike ,,,from NZ
Short answer: No.
But, go for it and report!
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Re: Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby PeterG » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:32 pm
"Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckxpuffdaddy wrote:I have been training and racing on shimano WH-R 500's for some time,they are cheap as hell and have never given me any problems,,however I am looking at upgrading to either RS 80's or Ultegra, I have read claims that the like of the RS 80's can be 2-3 kph faster at 40 kph,,"A bold claim ?" I re-grease the bearings in the r 500's when new "Lithium grease" and have a set that have done over 20.000 km and still run fine,,Are the likes of the RS 80's etc going to make a difference worth the extra $$ ,I do very little sprint riding ,,mostly 100 plus km rides,,Does 400 gram's difference in a wheel set matter when sitting on a steady 40 kph ?,,I have a mate who has purchased a $ 17,000 bike and he appears no faster,,placebo or no placebo ?
Mike ,,,from NZ
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Re: Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby puffdaddy » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:17 pm
I am 72 kg ,,Might have got a bad set of wheels maybe ?Burt 'Pigeon Racer' Jones wrote:How heavy are you?!?!?!?!?!puffdaddy wrote:I did have a set of american classic 420's but they flexed like hell when climbing
Bike 2011 Scott ,,all good
Genius 27 sp flat bar ,modified with aerobars etc a strange beast but love it ,,kicks ass
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Re: Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby Marty Moose » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:22 pm
Funny don't remember him riding with steel chrome rims and spokie dokies !PeterG wrote:
"Don't buy upgrades; ride up grades." -Eddy Merckx
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Re: Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby puffdaddy » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:33 pm
Hell yes ,,The training took a turn for the worse in a big way,,Few family stresses,late nights and poor nutrition seen me on the drip with an iron count of 4 ,,"my sons is 51",,,12 week recovery period and miss the K 4,,toolonglegs its been a gut wrenching chain of events,,my form started to drop off,,I cut back to around 350 km a week,,Noticed a problem when my heart rate started spiking,,Iron carries oxygen ,the doc was surprised I could even do 100 + km rides. ,,Should be 100 % by the end of November,,Better luck next year as they say ,,On the positive they said I will be better than ever,,,I hope sotoolonglegs wrote:I know Puff Daddy is pushing his limits...the amount of training he is doing.PortableDave wrote:How many really get close to their limit though?toolonglegs wrote:If deep dish wheels save you 10w's at full speed over say a set of Kysriums....then that is a big difference.
If you are already colse to your limit you may spend a year trying to get another get another 10w's out of your body after all.
Bike 2011 Scott ,,all good
Genius 27 sp flat bar ,modified with aerobars etc a strange beast but love it ,,kicks ass
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Re: Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby sogood » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:44 pm
True that stiffer wheels are nicer to climb on but not all CF wheels are stiffer. That categorical statement is just not always true.Parker wrote:Yes, they may not make you a faster rider, but a Carbon Wheel will climb much better because its stiffer...
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Re: Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby puffdaddy » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:16 am
Bike 2011 Scott ,,all good
Genius 27 sp flat bar ,modified with aerobars etc a strange beast but love it ,,kicks ass
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Re: Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby Marty Moose » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:28 pm
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Re: Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby Parker » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:38 pm
Okay, my bad. Will change too, Zipp 404's are great to climb on.sogood wrote:True that stiffer wheels are nicer to climb on but not all CF wheels are stiffer. That categorical statement is just not always true.Parker wrote:Yes, they may not make you a faster rider, but a Carbon Wheel will climb much better because its stiffer...
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Re: Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby toolonglegs » Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:14 pm
Stiff wheels for sprint / hard accelerations...how stiff you need depends on you...but most wheels are plenty stiff enough for most riders.puffdaddy wrote:I can understand how stiff wheels are great for sprints etc but for distance events I cannot see it being a huge advantage,,as with weight ,,a few hundred grams in a wheel set would not affect rolling input at a steady speed ?,the biggest difference for me has been tyre choice,,,,maybe a reflection that I have never tried any decent wheels
Weight means little unless you are a climber climbing real climbs...404 clinchers are nearly 1/3rd heavier than tubulars...but then if you were that good you wouldn't be climbing on 404's anyway...your team would give you a much lighter shallow rim wheel.
Aero means everything...thats what will save you energy over a long ride full stop...so thats where 50 /80mm rims have the huge advantage...especially solo.If you are hiding in bunch the whole ride it isn't so important.
Then add in better rolling resistance with tubular tyres / latex tubes / tubeless..all adds up...wear a skin suit .
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Re: Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby velocopedant » Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:46 pm
They wouln't be at 40km/h then would they?puffdaddy wrote:I have been training and racing on shimano WH-R 500's for some time,they are cheap as hell and have never given me any problems,,however I am looking at upgrading to either RS 80's or Ultegra, I have read claims that the like of the RS 80's can be 2-3 kph faster at 40 kph,,"A bold claim ?" I re-grease the bearings in the r 500's when new "Lithium grease" and have a set that have done over 20.000 km and still run fine,,Are the likes of the RS 80's etc going to make a difference worth the extra $$ ,I do very little sprint riding ,,mostly 100 plus km rides,,Does 400 gram's difference in a wheel set matter when sitting on a steady 40 kph ?,,I have a mate who has purchased a $ 17,000 bike and he appears no faster,,placebo or no placebo ?
Mike ,,,from NZ
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Re: Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby puffdaddy » Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:53 pm
http://ridewithgps.com/routes/195367
Bike 2011 Scott ,,all good
Genius 27 sp flat bar ,modified with aerobars etc a strange beast but love it ,,kicks ass
- Burt 'Pigeon Racer' Jones
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Re: Expensive wheels make that much difference ?
Postby Burt 'Pigeon Racer' Jones » Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:03 pm
Strange.puffdaddy wrote:I am 72 kg ,,Might have got a bad set of wheels maybe ?Burt 'Pigeon Racer' Jones wrote:How heavy are you?!?!?!?!?!puffdaddy wrote:I did have a set of american classic 420's but they flexed like hell when climbing
I race on the 420's and find them a great wheel.
Maybe I'm not good enough, or strong enough to detect flex.
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