Women's Specific

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Women's Specific

Postby Missy24 » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:29 pm

Questions

1. Who rides Women's Specific Design (WSD)?

2. Why do you ride WSD?

3. What do you ride?

4. How much did you spend?

5. Was there a mens model that was on par with what you got?

6. Was the men's model cheaper?

Discuss/Answer
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by BNA » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:24 pm

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Re: Women's Specific

Postby daveywastaken » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:24 pm

was looking at the amazing cervelo vids and came across this and thought it might b worth posting in the womens section to find missy started a related thread.

http://www.cervelo.com/en_us/bikes/women/

from my experience(extremely limited :wink: ) with the beautiful female anatomy i could imagine WSD is just marketing. there generally more expensive but at the same time production numbers would b next to nothing when compared to standard geometry and not always available with top of the range frames or specs which i guess supports cervelos point of view.
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Re: Women's Specific

Postby Missy24 » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:38 pm

Thanks, I wrote http://rowenascott.blogspot.com/2010/07 ... esign.html about Women's Specific Design and Yahoo had some play with it after we published it on Bicycles Network Australia

I'm already in communication with Cervelo and hope to do a follow up as they're one of the leading supplier in the world and they have their own women's team.

Personally I would never buy a women's specific bike, especially not in a road bike, I know how to fit myself onto a 'mens' styled bike so its not a huge issue.

Maybe the references we have both given will make it easier to inform others.

But if anyone can answer my above questions then that would be great.
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Re: Women's Specific

Postby Max » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:31 am

1. Who rides Women's Specific Design (WSD)?
I do! :D

2. Why do you ride WSD?
I ride WSD because of a history with poorly-fitting mens/"unisex" bikes. My torso is extra-short, and mens bikes just don't seem to be a good match for me.

3. What do you ride?
I ride a Cannondale Synapse 4 Feminine. I've also just picked up a Specialized Dolce Elite that I plan to use as a commuter.

4. How much did you spend?
The Cannondale was $3800. The Specialized was $1899.

5. Was there a mens model that was on par with what you got?
There could well have been. By the time I looked at specific models, I'd already made the decision to go WSD. This was based on recommendations from a professional bike fitter who did not have an agenda to sell me a particular bike. That said, I've just quickly had a look at the Cannondale site and there is a mens equivalent to my bike. It's a bit tougher to tell if the Specialized bike has a direct mens equivalent as the naming scheme is different (why do womens bikes have to have girly names?).

6. Was the men's model cheaper?
A quick look on BikeExchange shows that the mens Cannondale is listed at around a similar price point as what I paid.


Discuss/Answer

I think for many people, the jury is out on WSD. Some seem to be of the opinion that WSD bikes are just mens bikes painted pink, or with a different saddle. Others (like me) think there's a lot to be said for the geometry changes, the different saddle, the narrower handlebars, the shorter reach on levers etc. It really all does boil down to fit. Some women (you lucky things) can get away with riding a regular bike with some changes to saddle height, reach etc. I'm quite envious of those women. I'd love to be able to walk into a shop and see something I really like and not have to worry that we can't work well together. I know that there is a school of thought that any bike can be made to fit anyone, but my experience has shown otherwise. Was I just duped into buying something too big for me? Maybe. Was it just that the LBS's in question didn't know how to adjust the fit? Maybe. All I know is that in my case, WSD has solved all my fit problems.

I bought the Cannondale about 18 months ago, after spending a long time researching my options. In all my searching, one thing that really came to annoy me was that some manufacturers treat their WSD line as an after-thought. When I was in the market for my first "nice" bike, I wanted something top of the line - or at least as top of the line as my budget would go (around $4000). Initially I was looking for a flatbar roadie. I found that as the specs went up, the manufacturers dropped the WSD option. That really pissed me off. If I wanted a souped-up flatbar roadie, I would be forced to buy a mens bike purely because the "best" WSD bike in the range didn't have the specs I wanted. Then I started looking at dropbar road bikes. Manufacturers tend to take this side of their WSD lineup a bit more seriously. What, women don't want really nice flatbar road bikes? I don't understand the disparity. Actually, I do. My guess is that it's all about the market (or what manufacturers think the market is). Maybe women really don't want really nice flatbar roadies. Maybe those women who want souped-up bikes usually want dropbar roadies. Maybe manufacturers just don't see the point in making a really nice bike that they think won't sell. Whatever the reason, it was very frustrating for me. In the end, I got the dropbar Synapse. I don't regret buying the Synapse for a second, but I do wish I'd had more of a choice about the style of bike.

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Re: Women's Specific

Postby Mikiv » Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:28 am

1. Who rides Women's Specific Design (WSD)?
Me

2. Why do you ride WSD?
Because it felt like the best fit for me at the time, in my not-so-helpful LBS. Although i must say, I hate how it seems to be a given that girly things have to be girlycolours :evil: I am very much the tomboy country chick, and i loathe pink and all things girly.

3. What do you ride?
Schwinn Mesa D hybrid WSD, size M, metallic purple that changes to a khaki green colour (kinda a pearl paint), actually not too "girly" and a colour even i :lol: quite like

4. How much did you spend?
$450 reduced from $550

5. Was there a mens model that was on par with what you got?
Yes (not a schwinn - can't remember what it was but specs were pretty much par), but the "fit" didn't feel as nice, and as said, my LBS wasn't that helpful

6. Was the men's model cheaper?
No. Same price originally and on sale

Discuss/Answer
After not riding for 20 years, and with a tight budget, I wanted something to get back into recreational riding and to help me regain some of my former fitness. I live in the country, out of town and ride lots of badly patched tar roads, and dirt/gravel roads. The hybrid suits me perfectly for this. My LBS (only one, not much choice) wasn't real helpful with fitting the bikes that I was trying to compare, so I had to go with what felt best in the limits of the moment. Am I happy with what I got? Yes, I'm having a wonderful time riding again at 40 after 20 years off a bike, and that for me is all I want. At the moment anyway - I can feel upgradeitis coming on already :lol: although it would have to be most likely another hybrid or maybe a commuter (need to get saving first)
Would i buy WSD again? All depends on the fit of the choices at the time. If the fit was the best then yes.

Hope this helps :D
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Re: Women's Specific

Postby Missy24 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 8:57 am

Thanks girls... also if there are blokes out there who've got wives/gf/friend who ride WSD and wouldn't mind pestering them for a moment... please feel free to jump in.

Another question or two for you all

How could your bike shop have helped you more?

What annoyed you most about the bike shop that you went to?

What did you expect from your bike shop?

Where you made to feel unintelligent?

Did you feel as though you got across what you needed well enough?

Do you feel as though you could have been better prepared when purchasing a bike?

Have you got a bike shop that helps out women really well? If so, who is it? Whose the sales person? Can we drop your name in order to get better service?


Add any points I missed if you feel that its relevant.
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Re: Women's Specific

Postby flammer » Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:18 am

Image
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it is empty yet infinitely capable.
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Re: Women's Specific

Postby Missy24 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:21 am

flammer wrote:Image

Thanks for that flammer
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Re: Women's Specific

Postby Max » Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:29 am

How could your bike shop have helped you more?

I bought each of my bikes from a different LBS. Both were exceptionally helpful. When I bought the Cannondale, I was very much a n00b to road bikes. River City Cycles were super-helpful and informative. They gave me educated responses to all my stupid questions and let me take extensive test rides on a few bikes. My recent Specialized purchase was from Epic Cycles. All of the people there are super-helpful. I dealt with John Pittendreigh, the owner, and he was unbelievably helpful. He spent literally the whole day with me yesterday, setting up the new bike, doing a full fit, giving me advice about racks, panniers etc, and setting all of that stuff up on the new bike. He really went above and beyond. I chose Epic for the commuter bike because I feel they have a better handle on a commuter's needs. River City are great, but they cater to a different market. Going to Epic was not a reflection of River City's service or product knowledge.

So the short answer to the question is - both LBS's that I purchased from were just great. They couldn't have done more to help me out. Perhaps your question relates to those LBS's that I didn't end up buying from! In that case, it's a long list. All the questions below will be answered with a focus on LBS's that I did not buy from.

What annoyed you most about the bike shop that you went to?

Snobbishness. I got that from one LBS. The whole "Oh, you're not an elite cyclist, here have a look at a hybrid" attitude. That got old very fast. I walked out. Another annoyance is sales people who will say or do anything to sell their floor stock. One place I went to gave me four different prices on the one bike, depending on whether I bought it that day, the day after, the alignment of the stars, whether the tides were coming in or going out etc. I got him to write down the four prices, because he'd confused me so much I didn't even know how much he wanted for the bike. While he was writing it down, a customer came to the counter and spoke to another sales guy. She was asking about the same bike. He gave her a different price again. I walked out in disgust.

What did you expect from your bike shop?

Mostly, respect. After that, speaking to me like my money is worth something to them. Also, I want to know that the bike shop staff actually know what they're talking about, and can answer all of my questions without making me feel dumb. Also, it's OK for a sales guy to not know the answer to a question. Just be honest about it. Ask another sales person for clarification. Don't step into the BS zone. I'm very good at telling when someone's making things up. Don't insult my intelligence by trying it on.

Were you made to feel unintelligent?

At times, yes. Ignorance is easy to combat - all you have to do is explain the facts. If you can't do that without treating me like an idiot, you have no place working in a customer-facing role.

Did you feel as though you got across what you needed well enough?

Yes, and this was primarily because I'd spend many, many hours trawling the internet - manufacturer web pages, BNA, BikeForums etc for information, reviews etc. I'd made a list of requirements and was able to articulate them.

Do you feel as though you could have been better prepared when purchasing a bike?

I think that I was as prepared as I could be. I'd saturated myself with information about manufacturers, models, groupsets, specifications etc.

Have you got a bike shop that helps out women really well? If so, who is it? Whose the sales person? Can we drop your name in order to get better service?

River City - see Jeremy, and Epic - see John Pittendreigh. They're both really great shops that get my business over and over. You don't need to drop my name to get me better service. They already give me great service.

:)
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Re: Women's Specific

Postby CommuRider » Mon Nov 01, 2010 9:57 am

Max wrote:I found that as the specs went up, the manufacturers dropped the WSD option. That really pissed me off. If I wanted a souped-up flatbar roadie, I would be forced to buy a mens bike purely because the "best" WSD bike in the range didn't have the specs I wanted. Then I started looking at dropbar road bikes. Manufacturers tend to take this side of their WSD lineup a bit more seriously. What, women don't want really nice flatbar road bikes? I don't understand the disparity. Actually, I do. My guess is that it's all about the market (or what manufacturers think the market is). Maybe women really don't want really nice flatbar roadies. Maybe those women who want souped-up bikes usually want dropbar roadies. Maybe manufacturers just don't see the point in making a really nice bike that they think won't sell. Whatever the reason, it was very frustrating for me.


+1

I do want a flat-bar roadie and for the next bike I'm aiming for, I will get it customised but as far as I can ascertain, I will get something from their mountain bike range to get the flat bar. I've seen some beautiful roadies and one LBS quoted me $200 or so to switch the bars from drop bar to flat bar.
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Re: Women's Specific

Postby geekgirl » Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:45 am

1. Who rides Women's Specific Design (WSD)?Not me :(

3. What do you ride?Now Trek 4700 MTB. I've owned three other bikes. A racer, a tourer and another MTB. The tourer lives in the garage but it's retired :) The others have gone on to good homes. My neighbour thinks I'm not good with bikes since I've owned more than one. I'm not sure what that means. I get lectures on how her grandson has only ever had one because he looks after it. I've politely suggested that I wear mine out from cycling thousands of kms on them :lol:

4. How much did you spend?Not sure. It's six years old now. But around $800 on sale I think.

5. Was there a mens model that was on par with what you got? I bought the mens model because I've never ridden anything else. When I first began riding, bikes for females were deplorable. In particular they were heavier than the mens range and usually fitted with lesser quality parts.

How could your bike shop have helped you more?
I looked on the Internet and shopped around at a number of bike shops. I wasn't planning on spending more than $1000 at the time. I ended up buying it at a shop I don't normally frequent simply because they had what I wanted in stock, and on sale. I knew I could go elsewhere to have it serviced at stores I prefer, who look after my bike with care, and who didn't at the time sell bikes.

What annoyed you most about the bike shop that you went to?The lack of respect for the woman buying the bike. In each shop I went they tried to downgrade the type of bike I wanted. I assumed it was because they thought I wouldn't really ride it anyway, and that I could be persuaded into a quick sale if they showed me a cheaper bike.

What did you expect from your bike shop?
That I can go in and have an intelligent conversation about products and services, and be treated with respect. It's getting better I've discovered but I think it still has a long way to go. I've visited a few LBS recently to buy a few bits and pieces, and while they're friendly and helpful enough, there's a lack of knowledge behind some of the products that they sell. But then again that happens in all sections of the retail market and perhaps its a challenge to be able to employ people who know all about the products from personal experience. In LBS I've been tempted to butt in and offer advice to other customers who were getting pat answers to their enquiries but held my tongue.

Were you made to feel unintelligent?Not recently, but certainly in the past I've avoided bike shops where they've treated women cyclists with disrespect. I've encountered it not only with products but more importantly when trying to get things fixed on my bike.

Do you feel as though you could have been better prepared when purchasing a bike?
No, because I like research.

Have you got a bike shop that helps out women really well?
I can't speak for all women, as I'm not in touch with other local women cyclists at the moment. I'm fortunate enough to be able to travel that bit further and go to a bike store where they know my cycling history and will point me in the direction of quality goods, rather than steering me in the direction of the cheaper options first. Thanks guys!
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Re: Women's Specific

Postby Missy24 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:51 am

Would it may you feel better if there was a girl in the shop?
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Re: Women's Specific

Postby Max » Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:50 am

Missy24 wrote:Would it make you feel better if there was a girl in the shop?


I'm ashamed to admit this, but there is one LBS I like to visit purely because one of the women there is hot hot hot. :oops:

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Re: Women's Specific

Postby Missy24 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:13 pm

Max wrote:
Missy24 wrote:Would it make you feel better if there was a girl in the shop?


I'm ashamed to admit this, but there is one LBS I like to visit purely because one of the women there is hot hot hot. :oops:

Max

Nothing wrong with that, personally I would be more inclined to go to a bike shop where the blokes where smashing... as long as the service was A+
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Re: Women's Specific

Postby Mikiv » Mon Nov 01, 2010 5:25 pm

How could your bike shop have helped you more?
Their whole attitude to service needs to be improved. Pretty much they were like "you can have this, this or this for your money" and when I tried to ask any specific questions, got the generalisation of "oh they're all the same at that price, just pick the one you think is the prettiest" :evil: Unfortunately no other LBS and my only other place to shop was those department stores that sell bicycle shaped objects. (my dad has a $100 job that within a couple of rides the peddles are jammed from incorrectly fitted bearings - he's a fitter/mechanic and fixed it, but I was hoping to get a better product/service by shopping in the LBS)

What annoyed you most about the bike shop that you went to?
Their whole rather unhelpful attitude. I don't know if it may have been different if I was a) spending more money or b) male ; but neither of those schenarios should make any difference. I wasn't able to test ride, I had no way of sitting on the bike with a properly adjusted saddle (feet don't touch the ground and I don't balance on two wheels very well at a standstill :D ) no help with saddle height in the first place except "that's probably too low" and wander off disinterestedly. As a final straw, after I decided to buy despite the dismal service, they said they'd just take it out the back and check everything. well when I got home and took it for a first ride up the driveway I had to come straight back to make adjustments to both deraillers and the front breaks :evil:

Take it back after 6 weeks for the complementary service? not bl*#*dy likely!!!!

What did you expect from your bike shop?
I expected to be treated as if I had a right to be buying/riding a bike at any price point, and that my questions would be answered no matter how dumb (I am basically a noob after 20yrs off, even with the research I did online), and that I would get even a basic level of assistance with correct bike fit.

Where you made to feel unintelligent?
yes

Did you feel as though you got across what you needed well enough?
Maybe. i think they heard country/ tar/dirt/$. Went this is what you want, pick the one you like, seeya. My bike does suit my riding conditions and I am happy with what I picked, it would have been nice though too have been able to better try even just sitting on everything in proper riding position in store.

Do you feel as though you could have been better prepared when purchasing a bike?
i did a fair bit of research (although I didn't actually find a lot of user info on the schwinn), and a lot of lurking here reading about what to look for/BSO's (bicycle shaped objects) what people ride and like/don't like with their current ride, so I think I was fairly well informed - maybe too well - info overload anyone? :)

Have you got a bike shop that helps out women really well? If so, who is it? Whose the sales person? Can we drop your name in order to get better service?
Sorry no, not in my case anyway.

Glad to hear other people have great service - sometimes the idea of city living doesn't seem so bad :D
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Re: Women's Specific

Postby Ruby » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:13 pm

1. Who rides Women's Specific Design (WSD)?

I do, I have three WSD bikes

2. Why do you ride WSD?
I am 5'1 and quite short through the legs. It was also what my LBS stocked in XS. I wanted a bike, they sold them and I wasn't inclined to shop around. I also like quite a bit of drop and on the other models I would have been at the lowest spacers


3. What do you ride?


A 2009 Specialized Ruby comp and a 2011 Specialized Amira pro

4. How much did you spend?
$3000 for the basic ruby but ended spending about 6k when swapping out componentry and new wheels. The amira was purchased as a frameset from the US and when the build is finished will be around $10,000.

5. Was there a mens model that was on par with what you got?
Not really but I didn't look extensively, trying on bikes wasn't that easy. I found that on the mens models I was at the lowest seat and handle bar setting so there wasn't a lot of flexibility in the set up.

6. Was the men's model cheaper?
The mens equivalent were on par with the womens models. Except for the Amira, she is one of a kind :)
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Re: Women's Specific

Postby Ruby » Mon Nov 01, 2010 6:32 pm

How could your bike shop have helped you more?

There is nothing more I could have asked from them. They tracked down the speedplay pedals in the exact matching colour, the exact groupset I wanted with the hard to find 165 cranks. The frame arrived in the shop friday morning, it was ready for me to ride late friday evening. They go above and beyond.


What annoyed you most about the bike shop that you went to?
Weekends are really busy and I like to stand around with a beer in my hand talking to the workshop boys and I can't do this when its busy.

If I was to go to another LBS the main thing that would annoy me is booking bikes in for service. I don't understand what value this adds to the customer and I don't want to wait a week to get back out on the road,

What did you expect from your bike shop?
Friendly service and follow through

Where you made to feel unintelligent?
not at my LBS but when shopping I was often looking for an explanation over why I would choose x over y and this was hard to get.

Did you feel as though you got across what you needed well enough?
Most of the time although I think I am quite picky and like things to work just so. I am not I am always understood but my request is actioned without any eye rolling. I think there are some things men just dont understand though. I have really stiff wheels for my race wheels and for a couple of reasons I don't love them and would like something that looks as awesome but is a bit more compliant. I don't think most blokes understand the problem when they love these wheels themselves.

Do you feel as though you could have been better prepared when purchasing a bike?
Not really, I did some research but nothing stood out and brand A being so much more awesome than brand B. I bought from the shop that gave me the best service even though I could have found cheaper.

Have you got a bike shop that helps out women really well? If so, who is it? Whose the sales person? Can we drop your name in order to get better service?

Cyclery Northside in Chatswood Sydney. Although when I stand around with a beer in my hand when they are really busy I should help out by serving a few customers :)
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Re: Women's Specific

Postby marinmomma » Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:22 pm

I don't ride a WSD bike, but if one was the right fit with the spec's that I'd be looking for I would consider one...except for the fact the most WSD have pink in their paint jobs :roll: and to get the higher end spec's usually cost more than the equivalent bike from the traditional range :roll: :roll:

I'd like to see more WSD bikes minus the girly paint jobs! And womens cycle clothing minus the pink/girly colours!
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Re: Women's Specific

Postby Drunkmonkey » Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:39 pm

Who rides Women's Specific Design (WSD)?
Not me

Why do you ride WSD?
I dont

What do you ride?
Pinarello Prince

How much did you spend?
enough

Was there a mens model that was on par with what you got?
pinarello dont make gender specific bikes

Was the men's model cheaper?
see above

How could your bike shop have helped you more?
they could have had a coffee shop inside their store

What annoyed you most about the bike shop that you went to?
wanting to help me too much - damn bike shops that listen

What did you expect from your bike shop?
good after sales service

Were you made to feel unintelligent?
nope - i would go to a swanky bike shop on the north side for that

Do you feel as though you could have been better prepared when purchasing a bike?
nope, i know everything there is to know

Have you got a bike shop that helps out women really well?
yep

Would it may you feel better if there was a girl in the shop?
im the only girl that needs to be in the shop to feel better
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Re: Women's Specific

Postby Robdog » Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:09 pm

IMO Women's Specific Design is 110% BS. Women, just like men come in all shapes, sizes and proportions, and suggesting that one particular frame design is SPECIFICALLY for women is an obnoxious marketing ploy AFAIC. I get more than a little sick of people outright suggesting that because you're a woman you must immediately go looking for a WSD model - don't get me wrong, having the option is fantastic, but it goes much deeper than "righto, you're a male, men's bikes over there, you're a female, women's bikes over there. No peeking"
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Re: Women's Specific

Postby Missy24 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:12 am

I totally agree with you robdog, also think drunmonkey might agree with what you've said as well.

People specific not gender specific and even then when we've discussed saddles, neither are specific as it comes down to the rider, drunmonkey made that point very clear in regards to the selle smp saddles, they're not gender specific, selle just pinked it

Thanks to everyone thus far for their answers
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Re: Women's Specific

Postby gorilla monsoon » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:16 pm

Now Missy, you and I both know someone who would strongly disagree with you on WSD bikes. Possibly not on saddles but definitely on frame sizes and the reason she would argue with you is because she went into it from a zero baseline, free of any misconceptions and worked her way through the whole circus.

She came out the other end with a WSD machine and she did read-up enough, during her trials and tribulations, to know that there are real geometry differences in respect to hybrid and flat bar bikes.
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Re: Women's Specific

Postby Missy24 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:17 pm

gorilla monsoon wrote:Now Missy, you and I both know someone who would strongly disagree with you on WSD bikes. Possibly not on saddles but definitely on frame sizes and the reason she would argue with you is because she went into it from a zero baseline, free of any misconceptions and worked her way through the whole circus.

She came out the other end with a WSD machine and she did read-up enough, during her trials and tribulations, to know that there are real geometry differences in respect to hybrid and flat bar bikes.

I agree that there is a real difference in the way of hybrids and flat bars, but not when you look at road bikes.
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Re: Women's Specific

Postby Missy24 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:18 pm

Pink it and shrink it
Missy24
 
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Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 2:28 pm
Location: Brunswick

Re: Women's Specific

Postby Dave R32 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:21 pm

Replying on behalf on behalf of my wife.


Why do you ride WSD?

Yes

What do you ride?
Trek 1.2 WSD

How much did you spend?
Not as much as David :roll: ....about $1100.00

Was there a mens model that was on par with what you got?
Yes

Was the men's model cheaper?
Same retail price

How could your bike shop have helped you more?
They were great.

What annoyed you most about the bike shop that you went to?
Nothing.

What did you expect from your bike shop?
Good after sales service and advice and a friendly welcome.

Were you made to feel unintelligent?
No the boys were great.

Do you feel as though you could have been better prepared when purchasing a bike?
Not really, Dave thought I wanted a flat bar, I wanted a roadie and I am glad I did.

Have you got a bike shop that helps out women really well?
Yes I think they are pretty good.

Would it may you feel better if there was a girl in the shop?
No I dont think so, the one LBS I have been to with a female in sales made me feel bad because I dont race or ride a $5000 bike.

The shorter stem and narrower bars suit my build so if I had purchased a mens bike we would of had to change these during the set up. The small amount of pinkish/purple on the logo's isnt over the top.

Cheers
Angela.
Avanti Vivace = Sold | Trek Madone = Cracked | '12 Caad10 = Sold | Pinarello SDG3K = Sold | '14 Caad10 & Bianchi Pista
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Dave R32
 
Posts: 771
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:12 pm
Location: North Lakes - Brisbane

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