Footpath commuting - thoughts?

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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby Mulger bill » Wed Jul 14, 2010 7:07 pm

I can ride on footpaths most places in my town.
I choose not to. Peds are even sillier there...
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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by BNA » Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:53 pm

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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby Spork! » Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:53 pm

• You can ride on footpaths if there are no signs
banning cycling. This is useful if the road conditions
make you uncomfortable. You’ll need to ride slower
as you must give way to pedestrians, avoid
obstacles (eg: poles) and take extra care crossing
driveways and roads.

Copied from Launceston City Council brochure on cycling safety.

I'll be printing the full document to carry in my saddle bag for any plods who need some help with our local bylaws. :)
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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby Aushiker » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:35 pm

Spork! wrote:I'll be printing the full document to carry in my saddle bag for any plods who need some help with our local bylaws. :)


Hi

Unfortunately for you, state laws override local bylaws. I would suggest checking your State's Road Code :)

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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby Spork! » Mon Jul 19, 2010 6:50 pm

Aushiker wrote:
Spork! wrote:I'll be printing the full document to carry in my saddle bag for any plods who need some help with our local bylaws. :)


Hi

Unfortunately for you, state laws override local bylaws. I would suggest checking your State's Road Code :)

Andrew



OK, thanks.
Does it matter if it is a council road, a DIER road or a federal highway as to who's laws should be obeyed?
Our local coincil has painted a lot of on-road bike lanes recently, but my worst stretch, although earmarked for one, hasn't been done yet. I'd feel way safer on the footpath for this section - only a few hundred meters. It's a steepish climb, so riding slowly would be my only option anyway...
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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby gtw » Sat Aug 28, 2010 10:00 am

I feel strongly that as 'serious' cyclists we should not condone behavior that clearly upsets Peds. Evidently most are drivers and many are looking for an excuse to justify their negative stance against on-road cyclists.

I think the OP was probably a troll.

I think its terribly unrealistic to expect broad segments of society to display ethical judgment and behave within the boundaries of the law.
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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby casual_cyclist » Sat Aug 28, 2010 3:01 pm

gtw wrote:I feel strongly that as 'serious' cyclists we should not condone behavior that clearly upsets Peds. Evidently most are drivers and many are looking for an excuse to justify their negative stance against on-road cyclists.

I think the OP was probably a troll.

I think its terribly unrealistic to expect broad segments of society to display ethical judgment and behave within the boundaries of the law.

Pretty much all day, everyday I continuously witness people breaking the law. On the road on the way to work it is mostly traffic laws and closer to the city it is peds breaking the law. People only care about the law if they think they will get caught. Even then I have seen peds, cyclists and motorists break the law right in front of police (or just behind them where they think the police can't see). With a wholesale attitude like that I can't see anything changing in a hurry.
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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby il padrone » Sun Aug 29, 2010 6:12 pm

Riding on the road is far safer.

You are effectively turning the footpath into a two-way bike path.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segregated ... facilities

Image

http://www.bikexprt.com/research/pasane ... i.htm#txt4

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http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2010/s2851036.htm

PM wrote:One of the first people to highlight the risks of two-way paths was a researcher in Finland, Eero Pasanen.
He works in the city of Helsinki's planning department.

EERO PASANEN: We have more than 1000 kilometres of two-way cycle way paths. But the injury accident rate is still five times higher in cycling than in walking.

BRENDAN TREMBATH: Dr Pasanen worries when cities such as Sydney begin building two-way bike paths.

EERO PASANEN: I think in Sydney instead of building two-way cycle paths on the same vertical level as pedestrians, you should, in Sydney, introduce one-way cycle lanes.
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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby 009jim » Sun Oct 31, 2010 12:49 pm

It's legal to cycle on the sidewalk in some places. There are a few areas of my daily commute where the sidewalk is preferable to the road. You must be extremely careful of pedestrians and always they have the right of way. 99% of peds are very courteous. Ride slowly (at about walking speed) and you can easily cope with congestion. If the sidewalk is clear go faster but watch for cars entering and exiting private property as they expect you to stop for them (even if they have crossed over double center lines to get where they are - in fact this means they are more likely to clobber you because they want to get off the road before the cops see them). Other hazards on the sidewalk include wet leaves and wet manhole covers. Watch out for people who "pop" out from behind a sign suddenly.
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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby casual_cyclist » Sun Oct 31, 2010 2:59 pm

Yeah, prolly time to lock this pointless thread.
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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Sun Oct 31, 2010 8:36 pm

009jim wrote:It's legal to cycle on the sidewalk in some places. There are a few areas of my daily commute where the sidewalk is preferable to the road. You must be extremely careful of pedestrians and always they have the right of way. 99% of peds are very courteous. Ride slowly (at about walking speed) and you can easily cope with congestion. If the sidewalk is clear go faster but watch for cars entering and exiting private property as they expect you to stop for them (even if they have crossed over double center lines to get where they are - in fact this means they are more likely to clobber you because they want to get off the road before the cops see them). Other hazards on the sidewalk include wet leaves and wet manhole covers. Watch out for people who "pop" out from behind a sign suddenly.


And it's a good idea to slip the sunnies back from the eyes for those few minutes - peds are a little less likley to misread you as they walk towards you. At least those that even notice you.
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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby sagara0510 » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:15 pm

only received a few negative comments (mainly from old people) about how I 'should be on the road'


damned if you do and damned if you don't. you ride of the footpath and peds tell u to ride on the road. you ride on the road and car drivers tell u to use the footpath *sigh*

anyway i think it doesn't matter where you ride, its HOW you ride. if you're doing 30km/h on a footpath its still dangerous.
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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby Missy24 » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:26 pm

casual_cyclist wrote:
Baldy wrote:
casual_cyclist wrote:Is this thread still going? At one post, I am calling DragsterGirl83 a troll. Let's see:

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Oh yeah! TROLL! :evil:


I dont blame her for not coming back, with responses like yours. And the others, if she was fair dinkum then its no wonder.

What a bunch of legends :roll:

Hugs and kisses to you too sweetie :D

Damn! They need a kisses emoticon!

Just started reading this thread out of boredem... this was the best post
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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby m@ » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:28 pm

sagara0510 wrote:
only received a few negative comments (mainly from old people) about how I 'should be on the road'


damned if you do and damned if you don't. you ride of the footpath and peds tell u to ride on the road. you ride on the road and car drivers tell u to use the footpath *sigh*

anyway i think it doesn't matter where you ride, its HOW you ride. if you're doing 30km/h on a footpath its still dangerous.


It's true...

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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby msn » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:01 pm

sagara0510 wrote:damned if you do and damned if you don't. you ride of the footpath and peds tell u to ride on the road. you ride on the road and car drivers tell u to use the footpath *sigh*

I had a truck driver stopped at a red try and anticipate a green light (watching the orange & red on the cross street) roll fully across a ped crossing then stop again. Give him the "look", ride around the front, he yells "why don't you get on the road". Oh, riding on the crossing was legal - combined bike / ped green lights.
Doesn't matter if someone else stuffs up - we still get yelled at :roll:
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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby casual_cyclist » Thu Nov 04, 2010 4:43 pm

Missy24 wrote:
casual_cyclist wrote:
Baldy wrote:I dont blame her for not coming back, with responses like yours. And the others, if she was fair dinkum then its no wonder.

What a bunch of legends :roll:

Hugs and kisses to you too sweetie :D

Damn! They need a kisses emoticon!

Just started reading this thread out of boredem... this was the best post

:wink:
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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby human909 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:37 am

The harshness that this girl was treated was uncalled for.

No wonder people are asking Why don't ladies commute?
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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby Orbea105 » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:13 pm

Having found this thread while searching for NSW rules regarding riding on the road / footpath i came accross something you all might find interesting (and in my opinion flawed):

"Footpaths

Children under 12 years of age can ride on a footpath. An adult, who is riding in a supervisory capacity of a cyclist less than 12 years old, may also ride with the young cyclist on the footpath.

You are allowed to cycle on the footpath where indicated by signage."


Now this proves the idea that following the Laws / Rules is NOT always a good idea.
Would you expect a 13 year old to cycle on a road? because the Law states that he/she must.

I have a 2 year old in a trailer (secured & with helmet) who i would NEVER ride on a road with - and luckily i am within my rights to be on a footpath. (trailers are for infants under 10years old).
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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby Hamster » Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:00 pm

Riding on the footpath (s288)

In Queensland, cyclists of any age are allowed to ride on a footpath unless prohibited by a 'NO BICYCLES' sign — you must give way to pedestrians and ride in a manner that does not inconvenience or endanger other footpath users.

Perfectly legal in Queensland to ride on the footpath.
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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby Ozkaban » Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:08 pm

Hamster wrote:Riding on the footpath (s288)

In Queensland, cyclists of any age are allowed to ride on a footpath unless prohibited by a 'NO BICYCLES' sign — you must give way to pedestrians and ride in a manner that does not inconvenience or endanger other footpath users.

Perfectly legal in Queensland to ride on the footpath.

A much more sensible law than NSW...

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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby il padrone » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:08 pm

Orbea105 wrote:Now this proves the idea that following the Laws / Rules is NOT always a good idea.
Would you expect a 13 year old to cycle on a road? because the Law states that he/she must.

I have a 2 year old in a trailer (secured & with helmet) who i would NEVER ride on a road with - and luckily i am within my rights to be on a footpath. (trailers are for infants under 10years old).

Yes.

A 13 yo should be readily capable of riding on the roads. Not main highways, but the sorts of roads that lead to school for most kids in the suburbs - residential streets and secondary roads.

We frequently rode on the roads with our kids in the trailer. Bright yellow and about 1m wide, it stood out like dogs balls to traffic from behind. We always had far wider margins given by passing traffic than when we were riding solo, even on busy four lane undivided roads. I am talking about all traffic changing completely into the next lane - no questions, no abuse.

My son and daughter were both riding to school solo from about 8-9 yo....... on the road. We trained them in good roadcraft by going riding together on country road tours and quieter suburban roads from about 5 yo. And before you go saying "but not everyone is able to go riding with their kids" a couple of points:

1. it's all a part of 'parenting'
2. it ain't rocket science
3. that's why schools have Bike Ed. Lobby for it at your school.

BTW, I'm not so sure you are legally able to ride a trailer on a footpath simply because the child is under 12. I think the rule exemption is for children riding on the footpath, and adults accompanying. Carried in a trailer is not 'riding'.

[edit] Yep, rule 250 only applies to children riding a bicycle. No mention made at all about trailers.

Victorian Road Rules wrote:250 Riding on a footpath or shared path
(1) The rider of a bicycle who is 12 years old or older must not ride on a footpath except in the circumstances specified under subrule (1A).
Penalty: 3 penalty units.
Note
Footpath is defined in the dictionary.
(1A) For the purposes of subrule (1), the circumstances in which the rider of a bicycle who is 12 years old or older may ride on a footpath are as follows—
(a) the rider of the bicycle is 18 years old or older and is accompanying a child under 12 years of age who is riding a bicycle on the footpath and the child is under the rider's supervision;


Basically the child on a bike is more erratic, less experienced and less capable to judge traffic or hold a line. None of this applies to the child in the trailer - they are totally under your control.
Last edited by il padrone on Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby ColinOldnCranky » Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:47 pm

il padrone wrote:
Orbea105 wrote:Now this proves the idea that following the Laws / Rules is NOT always a good idea.
Would you expect a 13 year old to cycle on a road? because the Law states that he/she must.

I have a 2 year old in a trailer (secured & with helmet) who i would NEVER ride on a road with - and luckily i am within my rights to be on a footpath. (trailers are for infants under 10years old).

Yes.

A 13 yo should be readily capable of riding on the roads. Not main highways, but the sorts of roads that lead to school for most kids in the suburbs - residential streets and secondary roads.

We frequently rode on the roads with our kids in the trailer. Bright yellow and about 1m wide, it stood out like dogs balls to traffic from behind. We always had far wider margins given by passing traffic than when we were riding solo, even on busy four lane undivided roads.

My son and daughter were both riding to school solo from about 8-9 yo....... on the road. We trained them in good roadcraft by going riding together on country road tours and quieter suburban roads from about 5 yo. And before you go saying "but not everyone is able to go riding with their kids" a couple of points:

1. it's all a part of 'parenting'
2. it ain't rocket science
3. that's why schools have Bike Ed. Lobby for it at your school.

BTW, I'm not so sure you are legally able to ride a trailer on a footpath simply because the child is under 12. I think the rule exemption is for children riding on the footpath, and adults accompanying. Carried in a trailer is not 'riding'.


But we can all find plenty of local streets that would be a concern. In my area Parry Avenue, and especially at certain times. Yet there is no realistic alternative route.

Though post second world war the streets were laid out in simple criss-cross that made it easy to choose alternate routes, this is no longer the case in much of urban oz.

And there are a great many adults wishing to rediscover cycling. Many would find much of the local roads a bit intimidating for at least a while. And in many cases thereafter (eg Parry Avenue again.) So, what are they to do in order to get there basic road smarts up?

While people are all on about the compulsion of helmets, I find this hard and fast rule a lot worse.
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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby il padrone » Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:09 pm

ColinOldnCranky wrote: Many would find much of the local roads a bit intimidating for at least a while. And in many cases thereafter (eg Parry Avenue again.) So, what are they to do in order to get there basic road smarts up?

Lots of options. As I said we took our kids on country rides on weekends - using the car or Victoria's marvellous country rail system to get out there. In the suburbs there are plenty of shared paths to begin with and there are options to take short on-road sections. By the time they were about 8 yo my kids were riding on main roads with us, in a variety of situations, including night sections (riding Mitcham Rd returning 4kms from our local station after train-based country tours). And when they were younger they rode with us on a trailerbike and tandem with kiddie-cranks, where they saw us practicing safe road behaviour and felt the actions.

It is all a matter of how determined you and your kids are I guess. It's always easy to find excuses.
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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby konazz » Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:03 pm

In ACT, the rule is no riding on footpaths within 300m of an open business. Pretty good rule.

Shame the cops don't stop the idiots doing Tour de Garema place, squeezing between the laneway with coffee tables and people walking through (about 1.2m wide between the cafes).

The only problem i sometimes have is as bikes are allowed to use the footpaths, does this give them right of way on pedestrian crossing. I would think not, and never expect it, but the amount of times i've seen cyclists zip through pedestrian crossings at 15-20km/h without lookingg
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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby g-boaf » Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:36 pm

Orbea105 wrote:Having found this thread while searching for NSW rules regarding riding on the road / footpath i came accross something you all might find interesting (and in my opinion flawed):

"Footpaths

Children under 12 years of age can ride on a footpath. An adult, who is riding in a supervisory capacity of a cyclist less than 12 years old, may also ride with the young cyclist on the footpath.

You are allowed to cycle on the footpath where indicated by signage."


Now this proves the idea that following the Laws / Rules is NOT always a good idea.
Would you expect a 13 year old to cycle on a road? because the Law states that he/she must.

I have a 2 year old in a trailer (secured & with helmet) who i would NEVER ride on a road with - and luckily i am within my rights to be on a footpath. (trailers are for infants under 10years old).


The crazy thing is that the RTA puts out documentation indicating paths that you can ride on - but the paths themselves have no signage on them!! Which is utterly ridiculous.
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Re: Footpath commuting - thoughts?

Postby il padrone » Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:03 pm

g-boaf wrote:
Orbea105 wrote:Having found this thread while searching for NSW rules regarding riding on the road / footpath i came accross something you all might find interesting (and in my opinion flawed):

"Footpaths

Children under 12 years of age can ride on a footpath. An adult, who is riding in a supervisory capacity of a cyclist less than 12 years old, may also ride with the young cyclist on the footpath.

You are allowed to cycle on the footpath where indicated by signage."


Now this proves the idea that following the Laws / Rules is NOT always a good idea.
Would you expect a 13 year old to cycle on a road? because the Law states that he/she must.

I have a 2 year old in a trailer (secured & with helmet) who i would NEVER ride on a road with - and luckily i am within my rights to be on a footpath. (trailers are for infants under 10years old).


The crazy thing is that the RTA puts out documentation indicating paths that you can ride on - but the paths themselves have no signage on them!! Which is utterly ridiculous.

You are confusing the interpretation of the rule you have quoted. It in fact is stating two separate rules:

1. Children under 12 (and adults supervising them) may ride on a footpath:

2. Anybody may ride on certain footpaths that are signed as such.


In answer to your query - no sign, no riding allowed (for adults).
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