New XC race hardtail?
- ldrcycles
- Posts: 9594
- Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:19 pm
- Location: Kin Kin, Queensland
New XC race hardtail?
Postby ldrcycles » Tue Nov 09, 2010 11:20 pm
What would people recommend in the way of carbon frames/complete bikes? I am aware the aluminium Giant XTC is as light as some carbon frames and i'm definitely looking at it. Definitely not interested in a dually, i'd rather go fast than be comfortable :-p.
-
- Posts: 320
- Joined: Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:13 pm
- Location: Cairns, Queensland
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby Fred Nurk » Wed Nov 10, 2010 10:35 pm
I would have thought that you'll have similar issues on any lightweight aluminium hardtail though.
- Jean
- Posts: 1754
- Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:26 am
- Location: Canberra
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby Jean » Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:05 am
Dunno what it's like, but it fits your bill. On-one do full built bikes too.
-
- Posts: 822
- Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 6:59 pm
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby alchemist » Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:15 am
-
- Posts: 134
- Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:21 pm
- Location: Sydney
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby hung » Sat Nov 13, 2010 12:55 pm
luv it to bits
much nicer to ride than my over priced Cannonwhale dually
Cervelo S2 for the short road
GT Carbon Pro for the mountain
Kono Kula deluxe / slicks for the foot paths
Cannondale dually for the big stuff
- ldrcycles
- Posts: 9594
- Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:19 pm
- Location: Kin Kin, Queensland
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby ldrcycles » Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:29 pm
- nayfen
- Posts: 482
- Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:02 pm
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby nayfen » Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:06 pm
might be an option? 1020grams for frame pretty light too.
- ldrcycles
- Posts: 9594
- Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:19 pm
- Location: Kin Kin, Queensland
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby ldrcycles » Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:55 pm
PREEEEEETTY *drools.nayfen wrote:http://www.this link is broken/Mode ... elID=45914
might be an option? 1020grams for frame pretty light too.
- ldrcycles
- Posts: 9594
- Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 3:19 pm
- Location: Kin Kin, Queensland
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby ldrcycles » Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:07 pm
- Jean
- Posts: 1754
- Joined: Wed Feb 27, 2008 9:26 am
- Location: Canberra
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby Jean » Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:11 pm
-
- Posts: 294
- Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:52 pm
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby Alistair » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:18 am
Which GT are you riding? I have a GT framed mongrel that i built up a year ago to get back into riding. I used decent bits on it and a nice set of wheels, but when i bought another hardtail i struggled to get comfortable. I can't work out now if the large GT is smaller than the new bike, or maybe the top tube is shorter. Regardless, it is sharp and playful despite being a bit heavy and more basic than other bikes i ride.ldrcycles wrote:I'm looking at upgrading my bike from the Fankenstein i'm on at the moment (a $400 GT i got as a frame then built it to a sub10kg by going REALLY out there with the spec, thumb shifters, rigid forks, road front mech etc.) It's great but being a heavy (2040g) aluminium frame the rear end is SERIOUSLY harsh.
What would people recommend in the way of carbon frames/complete bikes? I am aware the aluminium Giant XTC is as light as some carbon frames and i'm definitely looking at it. Definitely not interested in a dually, i'd rather go fast than be comfortable :-p.
It is something to think about if you are buying off the net or without an opportunity to test ride.
My vote is for a Zaskar.
- tim on skin
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 5:10 pm
- Location: renown park sa
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby tim on skin » Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:08 am
ldrcycles wrote:I'm looking at upgrading my bike from the Fankenstein i'm on at the moment (a $400 GT i got as a frame then built it to a sub10kg by going REALLY out there with the spec, thumb shifters, rigid forks, road front mech etc.) It's great but being a heavy (2040g) aluminium frame the rear end is SERIOUSLY harsh.
What would people recommend in the way of carbon frames/complete bikes? I am aware the aluminium Giant XTC is as light as some carbon frames and i'm definitely looking at it. Definitely not interested in a dually, i'd rather go fast than be comfortable :-p.
have a look at the commencal skin.
the 2010 skin 1 is sub 10kg out of box large frame is about 1.2kg
great ride
No Pain No Game Man
HTFU
-
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:29 am
- Location: Brisbane
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby Gabe » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:44 am
Is this really true...? I'm finding that on the trails my dually definitely seems faster than my hardtail, and considering you can set the dampening and rebound for the exact conditions wouldn't you always be able to get more speed off-road on a dually? I always thought DS was more about good handling (ergo more speed) than comfort, that's the main reason I bought mine... or is this a misconception?ldrcycles wrote: Definitely not interested in a dually, i'd rather go fast than be comfortable :-p.
Hope I'm not hijacking the thread...
-
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:38 pm
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby ozynigma » Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:26 am
Yeah, it probably deserves its own thread.Gabe wrote:Hope I'm not hijacking the thread...
There are reasons the pro racers mostly race hardtails in world cup events. They are lighter, stiffer and more energy efficient and hence responsive to rider inputs. So generally with a good rider, a hardtail will be faster.
On a hardtail your legs are your rear suspension, which means they have to work harder and you need to spend more time out of the saddle absorbing the hits downhill and powering up climbs.
Comfort is only an issue for either type of bike if you insist on sitting on the saddle every where you ride (aka dual suspension laziness).
- toolonglegs
- Posts: 15463
- Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
- Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby toolonglegs » Sat Dec 11, 2010 7:34 am
Remember thou that most world cup mtb races are not on overly technical courses...discounting the climbing aspect they are a walk in park to your common garden variety aussie club xc race.ozynigma wrote:Yeah, it probably deserves its own thread.Gabe wrote:Hope I'm not hijacking the thread...
There are reasons the pro racers mostly race hardtails in world cup events. They are lighter, stiffer and more energy efficient and hence responsive to rider inputs. So generally with a good rider, a hardtail will be faster.
On a hardtail your legs are your rear suspension, which means they have to work harder and you need to spend more time out of the saddle absorbing the hits downhill and powering up climbs.
Comfort is only an issue for either type of bike if you insist on sitting on the saddle every where you ride (aka dual suspension laziness).
- trailgumby
- Posts: 15469
- Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 5:30 pm
- Location: Northern Beaches, Sydney
- Contact:
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby trailgumby » Sat Dec 11, 2010 11:51 am
It's a clue - I think - that most 24 solo events in North America and Oz these days are won on duallies.
While I enjoy riding my hardail, the lower back starts to feel it on longer rides. The longer the ride, the better I go with less fatugue on a dually.
-
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:29 am
- Location: Brisbane
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby Gabe » Sun Dec 12, 2010 6:57 pm
Not to say that you shouldn't get a hardtail if it suits your purpose, I just thought it was a bit misleading to say that they were faster when it does depend somewhat on where you're riding
-
- Posts: 822
- Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 6:59 pm
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby alchemist » Sun Dec 12, 2010 7:55 pm
Have you ridden either recently?toolonglegs wrote:Remember thou that most world cup mtb races are not on overly technical courses...discounting the climbing aspect they are a walk in park to your common garden variety aussie club xc race.
So are most aussie eventstrailgumby wrote:Developing that theme further, most Euro marathon events appear to be on groomed fire roads.
Well I know of one winner that bemoans the fact that his sponsor doesn't have a hardtail in its range.trailgumby wrote:It's a clue - I think - that most 24 solo events in North America and Oz these days are won on duallies.
- toolonglegs
- Posts: 15463
- Joined: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:49 pm
- Location: Somewhere with padded walls and really big hills!
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby toolonglegs » Sun Dec 12, 2010 8:21 pm
Might as well make your point.
If aussie club course's have become tame then that is real shame.
Edit:maybe I should show my age ...I remember pretty hardcore XC courses at Waterfall,Bargo,Megalong Valley,Ourimbah,Oxford Falls (on the old downhill course,no wonder I went thru half a dozen frames)...also around the airfield was fun in torrential downpour before the sydney world cup with a lot of proriders...but for a big guy like me you couldn't beat Wonderland on the M4...nearly flat!.
-
- Posts: 283
- Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2009 9:54 pm
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby ireland57 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:34 pm
If they are comparable in weight (and they can be given the lightweight shocks available) how can a rear end continually bouncing off the ground brake and accelerate better and faster than a frame which is placing the back wheel on the ground most of the time?
If that were true all motorcross bikes and offroad buggies would be hardtails too. There's no difference between any of those machines and a mountain bike. They are pushed across the ground by an engine planting a tyre. The tyre has to make contact to be quick.
Maybe there's more to it. Like setup.....bob, etc.
-
- Posts: 10332
- Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
- Location: Sydney
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby Nobody » Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:59 pm
The rear end isn't continually bouncing while under power on the flat or up hill due to the low pressure in a relatively large tyre (for the rider weight and power) acting as suspension. On the flat we are talking relatively low speeds and low power compared with motorbikes. As cycling is relatively low rpm/cadence, bobbing is going to be absorbed by the shocks (especially the rear) to some degree and also a FS will generally be heavier.ireland57 wrote:If they are comparable in weight (and they can be given the lightweight shocks available) how can a rear end continually bouncing off the ground brake and accelerate better and faster than a frame which is placing the back wheel on the ground most of the time?
-
- Posts: 73
- Joined: Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:29 am
- Location: Brisbane
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby Gabe » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:49 pm
Yes but we're talking about rough terrain, i.e. what the DS is designed for. Taking your argument further, you would be forced to say that we should all be using road bikes. Duallies just build on top of what hardtail MTBs were designed for.Nobody wrote:The rear end isn't continually bouncing while under power on the flat or up hillireland57 wrote:If they are comparable in weight (and they can be given the lightweight shocks available) how can a rear end continually bouncing off the ground brake and accelerate better and faster than a frame which is placing the back wheel on the ground most of the time?
If you know how to ride efficently then the bobbing is negligible, and I find that the front actually bobs more than the rear. I also have to say that even on the road my dually is still fairly quick for a MTB. The weight factor is also rather slight. By all means there are tracks and trails where I could see a hardtail being better, but there has to be a good reason why so many serious riders will buy duallies and why you see so many on the rougher trails.As cycling is relatively low rpm/cadence, bobbing is going to be absorbed by the shocks (especially the rear) to some degree and also a FS will generally be heavier.
I dunno, I'm beginning to think that maybe some people just have a thing for hating duallies without really having a good reason
-
- Posts: 10332
- Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 12:10 pm
- Location: Sydney
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby Nobody » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:03 pm
I'm just trying to answer a question raised as to why some people or racers would favour a hardtail. I'm not a DS hater and I"m not going to argue the point. Find someone else to argue with.Gabe wrote:Yes but we're talking about rough terrain, i.e. what the DS is designed for. Taking your argument further, you would be forced to say that we should all be using road bikes. Duallies just build on top of what hardtail MTBs were designed for.Nobody wrote:The rear end isn't continually bouncing while under power on the flat or up hillireland57 wrote:If they are comparable in weight (and they can be given the lightweight shocks available) how can a rear end continually bouncing off the ground brake and accelerate better and faster than a frame which is placing the back wheel on the ground most of the time?If you know how to ride efficently then the bobbing is negligible, and I find that the front actually bobs more than the rear. I also have to say that even on the road my dually is still fairly quick for a MTB. The weight factor is also rather slight. By all means there are tracks and trails where I could see a hardtail being better, but there has to be a good reason why so many serious riders will buy duallies and why you see so many on the rougher trails.As cycling is relatively low rpm/cadence, bobbing is going to be absorbed by the shocks (especially the rear) to some degree and also a FS will generally be heavier.
I dunno, I'm beginning to think that maybe some people just have a thing for hating duallies without really having a good reason
-
- Posts: 822
- Joined: Thu May 17, 2007 6:59 pm
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby alchemist » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:08 pm
Waterfall, - Gonetoolonglegs wrote:Edit:maybe I should show my age ...I remember pretty hardcore XC courses
Bargo, - Gone
Megalong Valley - Gone
Ourimbah - The current course is hardly technical
Oxford Falls - Gone
To that I'll add
Arcadia - Gone
Yellowmundee - Some of the more technical sections have gone
From talking to people that race them some of the WC courses are a lot tougher than they look.
- Mulger bill
- Super Mod
- Posts: 29060
- Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 2:41 pm
- Location: Sunbury Vic
Re: New XC race hardtail?
Postby Mulger bill » Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:46 am
London Boy 29/12/2011
- General Australian Cycling Topics
- Info / announcements
- Buying a bike / parts
- General Cycling Discussion
- The Bike Shed
- Cycling Health
- Cycling Safety and Advocacy
- Women's Cycling
- Bike & Gear Reviews
- Cycling Trade
- Stolen Bikes
- Bicycle FAQs
- The Market Place
- Member to Member Bike and Gear Sales
- Want to Buy, Group Buy, Swap
- My Bikes or Gear Elsewhere
- Serious Biking
- Audax / Randonneuring
- Retro biking
- Commuting
- MTB
- Recumbents
- Fixed Gear/ Single Speed
- Track
- Electric Bicycles
- Cyclocross and Gravel Grinding
- Dragsters / Lowriders / Cruisers
- Children's Bikes
- Cargo Bikes and Utility Cycling
- Road Racing
- Road Biking
- Training
- Time Trial
- Triathlon
- International and National Tours and Events
- Cycle Touring
- Touring Australia
- Touring Overseas
- Touring Bikes and Equipment
- Australia
- Western Australia
- New South Wales
- Queensland
- South Australia
- Victoria
- ACT
- Tasmania
- Northern Territory
- Country & Regional
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users
- All times are UTC+10:00
- Top
- Delete cookies
About the Australian Cycling Forums
The Australian Cycling Forums is a welcoming community where you can ask questions and talk about the type of bikes and cycling topics you like.
Bicycles Network Australia
Forum Information
Connect with BNA
This website uses affiliate links to retail platforms including ebay, amazon, proviz and ribble.