Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

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Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby mianos » Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:02 am

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/n ... 5974671979
Under a proposal from the powerful State Government StaySafe committee, cyclists would have their own green traffic signals to get a head start over vehicles - similar to lights currently in use for government buses.

It would be good to get a few more votes.
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by BNA » Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:12 am

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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby The Womble » Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:12 am

Something to benefit cyclists? Whats going on?!
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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby il padrone » Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:37 am

SMH wrote:StaySafe also found road engineering was "biased towards the needs of motor vehicles and drivers" and recommended changes.

Nothing new about that one :roll:
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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby Oxford » Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:51 am

il padrone wrote:
SMH wrote:StaySafe also found road engineering was "biased towards the needs of motor vehicles and drivers" and recommended changes.

Nothing new about that one :roll:

I wonder how much that study cost into the bleeding obvious (I'm talking about StaySafe not IP's comment).

"Airbags to protect cyclists", how about just avoiding the whole collision to begin with by looking where they are piloting the 2 tonne of mass they have around them?
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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby human909 » Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:07 am

Oxford wrote:"Airbags to protect cyclists", how about just avoiding the whole collision to begin with by looking where they are piloting the 2 tonne of mass they have around them?

My thoughts exactly Oxford. :D

Also I'm not so sure how I feel about separate traffic lights for bikes. It seems an unnecessary expensive, wasted down time for traffic flow at an intersection (of all types). Melbourne has them in a few spots, I don't see the advantages personally.
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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby Max » Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:38 am

I just couldn't bring myself to vote "yes" in the poll, because it was actually asking two questions. I think the 30Kph CBD speed limit is a good idea, and not just for cyclists but pedestrians too. I think giving cyclists their own traffic lights isn't a good idea. I'd much rather see those funds diverted to road widening, road user education, bike paths that actually go somewhere useful etc.

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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby hannos » Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:39 am

I'd prefer they spent the money on educating motorists and cyclists instead.
I don't really think cyclists need their own light sequence.
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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby CommuRider » Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:20 am

Happy to pay the $20 rego (hey that's my daily parking rate!) if it shuts up the clowns in the Daily Terror forum (fat chance of that happening).

Jeez, this city is full of whingers.
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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby ghettro » Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:44 am

I went down the Union St bike path yesterday, it was green for the normal street for straight ahead but red for bikes. WT?? They have to get the signalling right first and make them consistenty - right now they are appallingly crap
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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby il padrone » Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:09 am

The approach taken in some European cities is to actively encourage and give advantage to cyclists eg. the 'green wave' of traffic lights for 20kmh traffic in Copenhagen, shortened traffic light sequences to keep cyclists moving in Amsterdam.

Green Wave


Even 'bicycle-only' through roads
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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby simonn » Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:41 am

CommuRider wrote:Happy to pay the $20 rego (hey that's my daily parking rate!) if it shuts up the clowns in the Daily Terror forum (fat chance of that happening).


Really, you care that much what they think? Besides, it will not make any difference. The idiots who actually try and run people off the road etc are probably sociopaths anyway (no, I am not kidding) so cannot be appeased whatever you do. Other people might beep their horn etc, but, to paraphrase drubie, I take this as an opportunity to educate by extending my middle finger.
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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby CommuRider » Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:43 am

simonn wrote:Really, you care that much what they think?


If I did I'd be posting in that forum :-P I'm just trying to place the Randwick Council proposed rego of $20 into context. Bondi daily parking rate is much more than that. My point is, $20 is a drop in the ocean in terms of rego. Commuting to city saves me on parking, fuel, time etc. If contributing an annual $20 rego means more improved cycling infrastructure etc then happy to pay that amount.

DT just encapsulates the bigoted yellow journalism in this country.
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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby Nate » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:38 pm

Then again you could actually just read the proposal which was reported a month ago... and see they requested it be TRIALLED in APPROPRIATE PLACES.


http://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/Prod/p ... our%29.pdf

The Committee also recommends that separate signal phases for bicyclists at intersections, which stop all vehicular traffic while permitting cyclists to proceed through the intersection in designated directions, should be trialled where appropriate.


EDIT:
Preceding this was the call for Bike Boxes at traffic lights to stop cars from turning left over the top of cyclists, so it puts it in greater perspective that cyclists filter forward, park in the bike box & then go on their green.
Sorta what happens now, but just marked out.
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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:15 pm

By the looks of the photo, the rider is turning right out of Oxford st onto college st

And if that's the case then he is trying to get ahead of the traffic so he doesn't get swashed. Though I don't know if the cycle path is finished.

So this picture is actually supporting the need for the 'cycle first' lights

However it is typical minority group bashing, where the actions of an individual are portrayed to represent the entire minority group.

A 30kph speed limit is badly needed in Sydney CBD, the number of pedestrians hit by cars is excessive. True in most cases it is the pedestrian venturing onto the roadway unsafely, but tell that to the kids who have lost a mother or father
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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby Nate » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:30 pm

mikesbytes wrote:So this picture is actually supporting the need for the 'cycle first' lights


sorry - but unless i see a red light - then he didnt cross on the red.

Odd how the red light somehow didnt make it into the photo
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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby fatherofmany » Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:02 pm

I drove into the city yesterday afternoon as EldestofMany had a performance at the Town Hall. I don't think I got over 30km/h after I left the Harbour Bridge anyway. What's the fuss?
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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby il padrone » Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:11 pm

fatherofmany wrote:I drove into the city yesterday afternoon as EldestofMany had a performance at the Town Hall. I don't think I got over 30km/h after I left the Harbour Bridge anyway. What's the fuss?

Exactly! I reckon Melbourne CBD should have a 40 kmh, or even 30 kmh speed limit. Most people wouldn't notice any difference. But it would rein in the tossers who try the old 'drag race to the next red' trick.
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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby sogood » Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:18 pm

Nate wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:So this picture is actually supporting the need for the 'cycle first' lights

sorry - but unless i see a red light - then he didnt cross on the red.

I take that intersection on many mornings and there'll be at least one rider ignoring the red light through each light cycle during peak hours, without fail. And those riders often threaten and squeeze rule abiding pedestrians who are crossing the road. That's a reality.
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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:23 pm

Nate wrote:
mikesbytes wrote:So this picture is actually supporting the need for the 'cycle first' lights


sorry - but unless i see a red light - then he didnt cross on the red.

Odd how the red light somehow didnt make it into the photo


Valid point, from where the photographer was standing, the light couldn't be seen. Could be that the traffic didn't turn right as the street was gridlocked and the cyclist was turning into the new cycleway.

However the caption is saying that the cyclist was bumping the red and unfortunately true or false, most readers will read "guilty until proven innocent"
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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby itsaghostcar » Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:35 pm

sogood wrote:I take that intersection on many mornings and there'll be at least one rider ignoring the red light through each light cycle during peak hours, without fail. And those riders often threaten and squeeze rule abiding pedestrians who are crossing the road. That's a reality.

From the looks of the photo, if he did go on the red, it's only the half a second before the that light actually went green ... the cars behind are already across the line and moving as well, so he couldn't have been that far ahead. Knowing that light phase, cars have just had finished turning right from Wentworth Ave onto Oxford St. By getting out in front of the cars into the intersection, you are well in view of all traffic, and can make it to the start of the College St cycleway before the cars start jostling for position in the drag down College St to Park St (2 lanes turns into one lane for those continuing straight along College St).
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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby goodlookingcyclist » Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:15 pm

CommuRider wrote:
simonn wrote:Really, you care that much what they think?


If I did I'd be posting in that forum :-P I'm just trying to place the Randwick Council proposed rego of $20 into context. Bondi daily parking rate is much more than that. My point is, $20 is a drop in the ocean in terms of rego. Commuting to city saves me on parking, fuel, time etc. If contributing an annual $20 rego means more improved cycling infrastructure etc then happy to pay that amount.

DT just encapsulates the bigoted yellow journalism in this country.


If...
I doubt $20 wil make a positive difference, besides the fact that the system that handles the registration has to be funded I doubt that there is anything left at all of those 20.
And like someone said before, some just can't be appeased whatever you do, they wil say WHAT , only $20 :shock: that is way too low... :evil:
And before you know it the 20 wil be increased.... :roll:
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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby Nate » Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:19 pm

sogood wrote:I take that intersection on many mornings and there'll be at least one rider ignoring the red light through each light cycle during peak hours, without fail. And those riders often threaten and squeeze rule abiding pedestrians who are crossing the road. That's a reality.


Harold Scruby wrote:''You only have to watch cyclists in the CBD to see the number of red lights they run but they are not being fined.''


Sorry sogood... as "valid" as your opinions are, they're opinions - and we have a HUGE go at people for asserting theirs as "facts" like the above.
(no having a go, but pointing out a little of our double standards)
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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby zero » Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:42 pm

I would rather a concerted effort to either dedicate corridors, or a concerted effort to improve motorist/cyclist interaction in regular lanes, rather than maximising the benefits for left passing or outright lane splitting by riders, and therefore maximising the usage of something which should in fact be used sparingly.

It encourages cyclists to move closely past drivers, and therefore makes drivers used to the idea the cyclists and cars should be interacting closely, when I'd really prefer it if they stayed the **** away from me, and I'm happy to do them the return favour of not re-blocking them after each intersection as a gift for that space.

If we have separate traffic cycles for cyclists, they should be there for cycle corridors to move.
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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby CommuRider » Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:54 pm

goodlookingcyclist wrote:If...
I doubt $20 wil make a positive difference, besides the fact that the system that handles the registration has to be funded I doubt that there is anything left at all of those 20.
And like someone said before, some just can't be appeased whatever you do, they wil say WHAT , only $20 :shock: that is way too low... :evil:
And before you know it the 20 wil be increased.... :roll:


The $20 is a furphy anyway - just another spurious argument from the irrational anti-cycling brigade. Our hospital system is already overcrowded with obese, diabetic (type 2) people who didn't get enough exercise. Cost-benefit argument is in favour of cyclists but people would rather side on irrationality. *sighs*
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Re: Cycle lights proposal in Sydney

Postby wombatK » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:32 pm

The problem with the current Kent St/King St/Union St cycleways is that cyclists already get their own traffic light phase - and the green phase is diabolically shorter than anything reasonable in order to put cyclists in last place behind motor vehicles and pedestrians.

I'd just like to be treated like an equal to cars. I'd be happy to see cyclists given the same green phase as cars, with the cars obligated to give way when turning across the bicycle lanes - just as cars must give way to vehicles in a lane they wish to cross.

While bicycle boxes might have made it on the Staysafe recommendations list (and into the Aus Road Rules), there aren't any in the CBD - but they would probably do more to promote cyclists safety than all of Clover's half-baked bi-directional cycle lanes.

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