Aheadset and Quill stems
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Aheadset and Quill stems
Postby crog » Tue Dec 25, 2007 8:57 pm
What advantage do the new type Aheadset (threadless) stems have over the older generation quill stems.
nearly all new bikes nowdays wmply thge Aheadset it appears.
Che
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Postby Mulger bill » Tue Dec 25, 2007 11:44 pm
My take is ...
Advantages
Ahead - No special tools needed for bearing adjustment.
Quill -Easy stem height adjustment.
Disadvantages
Ahead - Height adjustment is difficult unless the LBS leaves plenty of spacers under the stem, it also throws out the bearing adjustment
Quill - Special tools needed for bearing adjustment.
I suspect quill would be slightly lighter too
Any more I've forgotten?
Shaun
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Postby thomas_cho » Wed Dec 26, 2007 6:49 am
You will still need a hex wrench to adjust the ahead style headsets. With the older style threaded headsets, you need a headset wrench, to loosen the lockring, which allows you to get at the bearings.
Also having spacers under the stem does not throw out the bearing adjustment, that has no bearing (no pun intended) on the adjustment at all. You do have a limitation when using carbon steerer forks. Manufacturers normally recommend that the height left showing from the headset equals the width of the steerer tube. You still preset the bearing adjustments by tightening the headset cap in the same way.
Adjustibility of the handlebar heights with a quill stem also requires that your quill has enough left in the frame when you move it up.
The ahead style also allows quick swapping of the handlebars, or the stem itself. Most quill stems do not allow removal of the bars by removing the front plate. Although there are some designs which allow that.
With ahead design, you can also "reverse" the stem.
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Postby europa » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:07 am
That's hardly an advantage - it means you may be able to get two settings (I say 'may' because with a steep rising stem, flipping it becomes a bit stupid, this coming from a bloke with a 40 degree rise) and coarse settings at that, whereas the quill allows many fine adjustments, something I guess you won't miss if you've never had it but something you do miss if you have enjoyed it on a bike that needed fine adjustment.thomas_cho wrote:With ahead design, you can also "reverse" the stem.
With the Ahead system, unless you're lucky enough to have a bit of steering tube, which isn't the norm (though becoming more common), the only way you can adjust height is by flipping and hoping the new setting works, or by buying a new neck (then another, then another) whereas a quill needs only be replace IF it isn't long enough and once you've bought that new new, you've still got the full range of adjustments.
With the Ahead system, anytime you touch the steering set up, you have to readjust the headstem bearings - maybe not a huge problem but it does allow more possibility for poorly adjusted bearings and I know one rider who ruined the headset bearings on his bike by getting the adjustment wrong after changing his bar height (swapped some spacers around) while on tour. With the quill system, you adjust the bearings once, then they are settled and safe until the next time you rebuild the headset.
Someone will now chime in with the traditional - but threaded headsets are difficult to adjust, to which I reply 'bollocks', they are no harder to get 'right' than the Ahead system (and yes, I've messed with quite a few of both this year).
Richard
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Postby kukamunga » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:50 am
Cheaper threaded systems can sometimes be a bugger to keep adjusted and tight, and require bulky 'specialty' tools to adjust and tighten. Sometimes threads get damaged on headet, steerer tube or both, rendering them useless. Cheap threadless systems usually only need a hex key or two, or a pocket multi tool, to keep 'em adjusted and tight!
Having said all that, here is a nice chromoly quill stem
(I am sure I posted this link before)!
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Postby Mulger bill » Wed Dec 26, 2007 9:41 pm
Bearing preload on a threadless system is provided by the top cap compressing the stem and any spacers into the top race and bearings, Tightening the stem bolts locks it all into place. you need to remove the cap and stem to change stem height by flipping or spacer, ergo the bearings need adjusting. I've seen both types ruined by poor adjustment.
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Postby europa » Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:27 pm
If you're happy with your handle bar height, there's no difference between the two. As someone who has spent most of 2007 stuffing around with bar setups in both reach and height and on a variety of bikes, the threadless/Ahead system sucks big time and is an unnecessary incurrer of expense.
But hey, most of you ride the bike from the bike shop and never go near the bars again.
As an aside, and no, I don't include this in my 'threadless vs threaded thinking', I came across the website of the people who 'invented' the Ahead system recently. Their description of their product and why they introduced it reeked of 'we wanted to be different and we managed it and so it's wonderful so there' thinking. Man it was piss weak. Fortunately, it was so pathetic no rational person would use it in any modern decision about which system to use ... and let's face it, we're not likely to get any choice anyway.
I read an article by the 'resident mechanic' in Cycling Australia recently, where the idiot condemned threaded systems as extremely difficult to adjust. I've heard similar comments elsewhere. Quite frankly, if you believe there are significant differences between the systems as far as ease of adjustment goes, you are incompetent.
Richard
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Postby sogood » Thu Dec 27, 2007 5:38 am
Maybe freak chance, but every time I've seen someone adjusting a threaded stem on their bike, brute force always seemed to be required. It's as if those threaded stems have a habit of binding themselves in place over time... Wack, wack, wack!europa wrote:Quite frankly, if you believe there are significant differences between the systems as far as ease of adjustment goes, you are incompetent.
RK wrote:And that is Wikipedia - I can write my own definition.
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Postby LuckyPierre » Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:08 am
I agree with both Richard and sogood.sogood wrote: ... Maybe freak chance, but every time I've seen someone adjusting a threaded stem on their bike, brute force always seemed to be required. It's as if those threaded stems have a habit of binding themselves in place over time... Wack, wack, wack!
There isn't a great deal of competence required in adjusting a threaded headset, but the 'whack, whack, whack' required to get stems that have been untouched for a while (usually years) definitely requires a lot of confidence.
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Postby europa » Thu Dec 27, 2007 10:29 am
How does that hold everything in place? Does the effort of braking 'lock' it onto the steerer?alchemist wrote:Not if you have a canti-brake hanger installedeuropa wrote:A threadless or Ahead system, you have to redo the adjustment everytime you even look at anything to do with the bars back to the frame.
Sheldon's done a conversion on at least one of his bikes where he fits a seat clamp around the steerer tube - only has to adjust that headset once Be a real boon for someone on tour who wants to change the bar height periodically.
Richard
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Postby kukamunga » Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:43 pm
I have never had a problem with getting threadless headset bearings adjusted properly, on bottom end or top end bikes. It is simple and quick. The only problem I have experienced was when buying a new MTB back in '95 from a reputable inner Melb bike shop, and the dufus shop owner thought he was tightening up a quill stem! One brand new pitted headset! No wonder I do most of my own bike work.
Admittedly, most threaded headsets I've encountered have been on second hand or lower end bikes, and these have nearly always been problems to keep tightened, especially without the right tools. Threads get damaged when ridden loose, then you can seldom get them to stay adjusted/tightened properly again. Most bike riders I know carry the basic allen/hex key set on them.
So you are in a group ride. You notice two riding companions headsets are loose. One threaded, one threadless. Which one are you likely to be able to adjust on the spot?
Horses for courses I guess
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Postby Mulger bill » Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:15 pm
Link please.europa wrote:I came across the website of the people who 'invented' the Ahead system recently. Their description of their product and why they introduced it reeked of 'we wanted to be different and we managed it and so it's wonderful so there' thinking. Man it was piss weak. Fortunately, it was so pathetic no rational person would use it in any modern decision about which system to use ... and let's face it, we're not likely to get any choice anyway.
Richard
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Postby Mulger bill » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:04 am
Does Firefox have a history?
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