Pedals / toe clips
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Pedals / toe clips
Postby drubie » Sun Nov 28, 2010 2:03 pm
However, when I go to get my second foot in the pedal I'm having a massive fail. I just can't seem to flip the pedal over at the right spot to slot my sneaker in there. I know this sounds stupid / dreadfully uncoordinated but it's driving me nuts. How do you do it? Start extra slow?
The pulsing back through the cranks is interesting if you get out of synch while going down a hill - not sure if fixed is really an improvement...
but really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.
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Re: Pedals / toe clips
Postby yehuwdiy » Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:30 pm
I still sucked and gave up quickly. Too old, too unco.
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Re: Pedals / toe clips
Postby Stovepipe » Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:46 pm
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Re: Pedals / toe clips
Postby brauluver » Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:56 pm
Next is to start skidding
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It's All In The Wrist Action....
Postby Quinns Rocks Roadie » Sun Nov 28, 2010 5:09 pm
Second to that.brauluver wrote:Keep practising..It'll come to you.
Next thing to do is to get shoes with old slot type blocks - these will couple your feet to the pedals a whole lot better than just running shoes and help with spinning fast on downhill sections.The pulsing back through the cranks is interesting if you get out of synch while going down a hill - not sure if fixed is really an improvement...
In time your action will change (for the better) and it will all feel perfectly natural.
The one big thing to be aware/wary of is getting out of the saddle and sprinting - if you stop pedalling you will go straight over the bars - the trick is to sit back on the saddle before relaxing the legs.
Good luck with it Drubie, persevere and you will enjoy it bigtime.
Eric.
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Enter the Hipster
Postby drubie » Sun Nov 28, 2010 6:19 pm
I will keep trying. I think I might buy some better toe clips though. The tip shop plastic VP pedals are a bit crap and the strap itself is catching on the crank arm (which I think is part of the problem - stops it rotating enough when you hit the little flipper).Quinns Rocks Roadie wrote:Good luck with it Drubie, persevere and you will enjoy it bigtime.brauluver wrote:Keep practising..It'll come to you.
I have some MKS Quill pedals on my shelf, I might order some clips and new straps for those and keep persevering. The matching MKS clips are only $15 or so, the straps not much more. I can see that starting the pedal flip at 6 might be a goer though,on the way down to ezydvd I still failed but could see how it would work if the pedal flipped consistantly.
I can see the forced nature of pedalling through transitions is helpful though - especially as mentioned where you sit back down but still have to pedal after a session out of the saddle.
but really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.
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Plastic Clips Are Ok....
Postby Quinns Rocks Roadie » Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:24 am
Drubie, the weight of the clip and strap if not rubbing on the crank will set the angle of the pedal correctly for catching the hook and flipping the pedal up and inserting the shoe in one easy motion on the upstroke and forward across the top.I can see that starting the pedal flip at 6 might be a goer though,on the way down to ezydvd ? I still failed but could see how it would work if the pedal flipped consistantly.
Proper road pedals keep the straps from rubbing the cranks.
Toe Strap Buttons set the strap maximum open length and serve as easy grip handles when tightening the straps.
Haha, yes it's mission critical to keep the power on if only a little bit until seated, and even then if you allow you knees to lock backwards you will get bumped up off the saddle......if you are out of the saddle and over the bars and prop your legs then no amount of arm strength will keep you from going over the front, followed by your bike.I can see the forced nature of pedalling through transitions is helpful though - especially as mentioned where you sit back down but still have to pedal after a session out of the saddle.
Clips can be quicker to lock in than modern cleats, and slotted type shoe blocks let you use 360* full power.
Enjoy, Eric.
What shoes and pedals do you normally use ?.
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Re: Plastic Clips Are Ok....
Postby drubie » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:25 am
Look Delta is my preference but I have SPD's on a couple of bikes. The Delta is a very different action in that you catch it with the toe and the pedal points upward. I'm not sure I want to switch to proper cycling shoes on the Repco as it's supposed to be a fun / occasional commuter / light errand bike. One of the coaches in the club recommended a once a week ride on one to sort out my (terrible) form so it's not all about the hipster angle. If I can get the toe straps sorted it'll be my Friday commuter but then again I don't know whether cycling in sneakers is compatible with fixie form fixing.Quinns Rocks Roadie wrote:
What shoes and pedals do you normally use ?.
but really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.
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Re: Pedals / toe clips
Postby Quinns Rocks Roadie » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:43 am
The blocks will also enable you to practice 'ankling' correctly without having to apply effort/slightly different action to keep your feet in the clips.
If you are going to do some high revving intervals stuff then I would say shoes/blocks are a must.
I used to ride Detto Pietro shoes like these with slotted blocks back in the old days...
Another possibility is to swap pedals according to different rides and use your modern Look or Spd pedals for your commute and/or corrective training.
If swapping pedals often, best to use these Pedal Washers Stainless Steel to protect your crank ends.
Btw, I modified my cheap Mtb Spd pedals and fitted straps and clips in addition to the Spd cleats - this enables me to use Mtb shoes or runners on my roadie.
Eric.
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Re: Pedals / toe clips
Postby drubie » Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:59 pm
Not sure about the MTB shoes for stroke correction - mine are nice but pretty flexi compared to the carbon soled Shimano shoes (and that's why I have them, so I can walk when I get to my destination on the tourer/cyclocross bikes).Quinns Rocks Roadie wrote: Another possibility is to swap pedals according to different rides and use your modern Look or Spd pedals for your commute and/or corrective training.
...
Btw, I modified my cheap Mtb Spd pedals and fitted straps and clips in addition to the Spd cleats - this enables me to use Mtb shoes or runners on my roadie.
Eric.
I think I will take up your suggestion, spin on a set of PP296 Deltas for the training sessions and upgrade the MKS Quill pedals with MKS clips for posing. Another set of cycling shoes would probably mean instant divorce. Having said that, if I'm going to be hammering on this thing I think I might have to put a proper chainset on it rather than the dodgy one at the moment (see pictures in the fixie pictures thread).
but really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.
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Re: Pedals / toe clips
Postby Quinns Rocks Roadie » Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:10 pm
That bike looks like you should have fun on it...when you get your gearing optimal.
So what is it that is so bad about your pedalling technique ?.
Eric.
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Bad bad leroy brown
Postby drubie » Mon Nov 29, 2010 9:20 pm
I was observed getting raggedy by the club coach during a training ride when the pressure was on. Mistiming I think is the best way to describe it - wasting energy, not following through completely. I'm supposed to be concentrating on evening it out and after the ride mentioned the pictured junkyard dog. Coach said try it fixed and ride it on undulations. It started out as a "could I build one for no bux" challenge but it's starting to turn into something more serious. The frame is crap but stripped out Sheldon style it's surprisingly spritely.Quinns Rocks Roadie wrote: So what is it that is so bad about your pedalling technique ?.
but really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.
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It's Gunna Hurt....
Postby Quinns Rocks Roadie » Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:09 pm
Be prepared to run high cadence to round/even your action - ime a pumping action comes from riding too big a gear.
Intervals training ought to help - full power accelerate on the saddle and hold max revs for 250m then throttle back/roll for 500m to recover and repeat...16 of those sets and you'll be cooked, but it will improve your action, and especially your aerobic and anaerobic fitness - the catch is that you need to be pretty fit to start with.
Every leg muscle will be screaming by the 250m mark so you will learn to share the load to different muscle groups to get to the throttle off point, and this will fix your action automatically.
Also pay close attention to your saddle height and position.
I forget what gearing I used...85-90 inch range if I recall correctly.
I don't understand the 'undulations' bit ???.
Eric.
Keep us posted.
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Re: It's Gunna Hurt....
Postby drubie » Mon Nov 29, 2010 11:32 pm
Undulations - Rolling hills rather than big climbs. The interval training you described sounds interesting though (very close to what's in the old Greg LeMond book I have).Quinns Rocks Roadie wrote: I forget what gearing I used...85-90 inch range if I recall correctly.
I don't understand the 'undulations' bit ???.
:
I think this thing is only running 67.5 inches though, perhaps an OK starting point but I'm 90% convinced that a bigger and better quality crank will be on it fairly soon. (heh, look how far off topic this drifted...)
I just realised in the photo you reposted you can clearly see the offending pedal strap caught up on the crank - doh!
but really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.
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Pedals / Toe Clips Are Not The Problem...
Postby Quinns Rocks Roadie » Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:28 am
Very gentle rolling hills ought to be useful, but intervals probably better.Undulations - Rolling hills rather than big climbs. The interval training you described sounds interesting though
I change average action according to the terrain - further back on the saddle and heels down a bit for climbs, on the flats heels pretty much horizontal average and heels up a bit when spinning or downhill.
Google 'cycling ankling' for tips and some controversy - I have always done it and it is natural to me - makes for a smooth action and a big benefit for redistributing load to muscle groups according to fatigue.....you can relax one muscle group a bit whilst shifting load to different muscles until the first group recovers etc....trick is to balance load between glutes, quads, hamstrings, tibialis and calves, all at the same time.
Your gearing does look low and if 67.5" is too low for on the flat and intervals - hell, I used to get over Mt. Cootha in Brisbane in that gear sitting on the saddle.
The 'offending' strap should not be too big an obstacle once you get the hang of flipping up and in - the other coordination test is to reach down and tighten the straps with the cranks going around.
Brainwave - rollers that have a rotating front wheel roller are hugely beneficial to leaning a smooth action....if you can find some junked conveyor belt rollers you could make a set for next to nothing.
Eric.
http://www.cyclingtipsblog.com/2009/05/ ... e-ankling/
http://www.perfectcondition.ltd.uk/Arti ... /index.htm
http://www.perfectcondition.ltd.uk/Arti ... 0Notes.htm
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Re: Pedals / Toe Clips Are Not The Problem...
Postby drubie » Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:12 pm
I had a go at the ankling on the way home tonight (although on the SPD equipped tourer) but I was just full of fail. I might have been trying to exaggerate the motion too much. "Fixie Friday" I'll have a proper go once I get that toe strap to behave.Quinns Rocks Roadie wrote: Google 'cycling ankling' for tips and some controversy - I have always done it and it is natural to me - makes for a smooth action and a big benefit for redistributing load to muscle groups according to fatigue.
but really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.
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Re: Pedals / Toe Clips Are Not The Problem...
Postby casual_cyclist » Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:39 pm
I do it when I am fatigued. It helps.drubie wrote:I had a go at the ankling on the way home tonight (although on the SPD equipped tourer) but I was just full of fail. I might have been trying to exaggerate the motion too much. "Fixie Friday" I'll have a proper go once I get that toe strap to behave.Quinns Rocks Roadie wrote: Google 'cycling ankling' for tips and some controversy - I have always done it and it is natural to me - makes for a smooth action and a big benefit for redistributing load to muscle groups according to fatigue.
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Re: Pedals / toe clips
Postby Quinns Rocks Roadie » Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:32 am
Yes, the ankling is about shifting muscle loading - I find going the big upper thigh pump is more fatiguing than than spinning faster and distributing the load.I do it when I am fatigued. It helps.
Once you have your foot in the strap shouldn't matter.....
Eric.
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Re: Pedals / toe clips
Postby foo on patrol » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:50 am
Goal 6000km
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Re: Pedals / toe clips
Postby drubie » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:42 pm
Depends on the sneaker. Since I made sure the strap doesn't foul the crank arm, I have found this a bit easier. It's still tricky, but at least the pedal comes into the proper position enough to get my foot in. A Dunlop volley or similar might be easier than running shoes I suppose.foo on patrol wrote:If you are wearing sneakers, you will forever have trouble getting into toe clips because, you cannot slid the shoe in once you have flipped the toe clip.
but really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.
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Re: Pedals / toe clips
Postby stefanbj » Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:40 pm
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Re: Pedals / toe clips
Postby Stovepipe » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:42 pm
incorrect.stefanbj wrote:best shoes for toe clips are dunlop vollies
I mean, they'll work, but you want something with a stiffer sole
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Re: Pedals / toe clips
Postby DaveOZ » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:48 pm
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Re: Pedals / toe clips
Postby Verbs & Nouns » Thu Jan 13, 2011 11:38 am
I wear Adidas Sambas. Reasonably stiff sole and they slide into clips easily. And they are reasonably hard wearing. They are also twice the price of Volleys, but…
On my bikes I use MKS Sylvan track pedals with various clips (W-Base four gate clips, some old single gate clips and MKS clips) I run SAG double straps on all my bikes. I like the security of double straps on my fixed.
I remember when I first started, it take me forever to flip the pedal and get my feet in. it just takes practice. I went out of my way to ride around the quiet backstreets clipping and out (with both feet) to get used to it. I still have problems every now and then, particularly with the strap hitting the crank arm and not flipping properly, but as I said before, it takes practice.
It’s the same as when I first road with Look Delta’s on my roadie. It took forever to get my foot in and I bashed my ankle repeatedly.
And for fun, here’s a shot of my foot in my pedals… the shoes are adidas Samba, MKS pedals and clips and the SAG double straps.
Ten Grand wrote:Goddamnit baby, this is soul... What's wrong with you?
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Re: Pedals / toe clips
Postby aaron » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:59 pm
Samson FTW
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