Identifying a Bianchi? (Actually a Tamari)

[paulau]

Hi,

I recently picked up a second hand Bianchi bike and am trying to identify its age and model. Its a steel frame and has the words Tamari embossed on it. I have included some pictures.







Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Paul

[5 Star Rolf]

- Hi Paul,

the concave scalloped seat stay tip with 'Tamari' looks Japanese.

- Are there any markings on the dropouts or under the bottom bracket...(eg 'Tange' or 'Shimano')?

'Tc' on the fork shoulder may stand for Tamari cycles ?

Ride safe, cheers, 5*R .

[Kid_Carbine]

Well, I Googled both Bianchi Tamari as well as Tamari Cycles & came up with, ........ nothing.

[GaryF]

Hi Paul,

My guess is that you've got a Japanese bike from the 80's that has been re-painted to look like a Bianchi from the late 90's (Pantani era).

I have never come across the Tamari brand before but it looks like a very nice frame. Japanese frames of quality (like yours) seem to be appreciated more in the USA more than they are here in Aust.

From the photo's its hard to tell what components you have got on the frame but they look to be of a good quality too.

Best of luck,

Gary.

[MountGower]

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[Minority]

Check out the "getting lucky" post from Mulger Bill a bit lower down.

It looks like you might have a "relative" of his bike!

[paulau]

Thanks for all the replies, I'm figuring i have actually got a Japanese frame, although it may actually be nicer than a similar age Bianchi

I'll look for some more info on the frame when i get home, as i'm currently away for the weekend.

I may actually end up doing it up, the only thing i'm not fussed about is having the shifters on the frame itself.

It does look very similar to the bike in the getting lucky thread.

Thanks,
Paul

[GaryF]

Great memory Minority, the bikes must be brothers.

Tamari - an Italian brand (if the decal is to be believed) - well I'll be!

The fork crown looks like a Cinelli crown and the seat stay plugs and rear brake bridge look very Cinelli too. Two sets of bottle cage bosses would suggest a mid to late 80's build.

Paul, what is the bottom bracket width? Is it 70mm (Italian) or is it 68mm (British). By the way, this really means nothing if it is 68mm as Italian frames can have British Bottom brackets, but if it is 70mm - that would indicate an Italian made frame.

This frame is getting more desirable the more you look at it.

Keep us informed - I hope Mulge Bill is plugged in.

Gary.

[MountGower]

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[paulau]

The faint wording on the top is from where someone had put some decals that had their name. It was really the first thing that made me a bit weary as the decal was very similar to the Bianchi decals

The rear rim is a Velocity rim and the front is not labelled. I assume they would be 700c wheels?

The crank is campag and the rear bits are shimano.

I'll measure the bottom bracket when i get home and take some more snaps.

It could look nice if it was resprayed and then emphasise the lugs or something.

Paul

[Mulger bill]

It's an Italian BB on my Tamari, but only one set of cage mounts.

Shame some dopey brand snob had to paint it light blue Those things be common as muck compared to our luvverly finds

I see you've got the factory fork too Paul, lucky you
What's your serial No? Mine is 555, might give us some idea about relative dates

I've tried every google I can think of and had no luck finding them either, I'd love some history on the brand.

As for the decals, there's waterslide decal paper for inkjet printers available online, I'll give that a go if I can image the decals cleanly enough.

Shaun

[ggundersen]

I would rather think that 555 is the size of the frame

[Mulger bill]

I would rather think that 555 is the size of the frame

Stamped under the BB shell?

Shaun

Excuse my density

[ggundersen]

italians do that a lot

and they don't always have frame numbers.
most of the italian frames i have owned didn't - although the ones i have now do.

[Mulger bill]

Any other Itie "differences" I should know about?

Shaun

[paulau]

Mine is a 54cm frame, although it seems smaller.



Here's a few more pics:




I wonder if there is a way to clean the cranks up and get rid of some of the scratches?





The frame is in pretty good condition, allthough some of the components are a bit rough.

No rust to mention.

I had a look over the frame to try and find any hint of the original colour, but couldn't.

My plan is to ride it a bit and see how i like the frame, it feels like quite an aggressive frame geometry from my little spin on it.

Paul

[GaryF]

Hi Paulau,

Thanks for the extra photo's. Good to read that you're going to ride the bike to see how you 'fit'.

The bike, as you know, is put together with a hotch potch of parts. I think you have some good stuff and some ordinary stuff.

I think the ordinary stuff is probably all the Shimano parts; brakes, front derailleur and rear derailleur.

The good stuff is the Campagnolo parts. Cranks: I think the cranks are from a 1986/7 Athena groupset (same cranks as the Croce d'Aune set but without the self extractor and probably a slightly poorer finish), the seatpost looks (hard to see) like a Super Record post and the gear levers are 80's model Super/ Nuovo Record.

To get the scratches out you would have to polish off the annodising which is really tuff. It can be done but it's a big job. It is hard to find cranksets of that vintage that are in good condition.

I can't make out the wheels and their hubs. Wheels are the most important upgrade when you are looking to improve a bike. It would be interesting to see what you've got.

Bars and stem are not clear but the bars are an anotomic design.

The headset is interesting. This is probably an original part and looks to be steel. If it is steel, it would probably be from the Nuovo Record group - the second level groupset.

I would be interested to see the rear dropouts. They look to be the shorter version of Campagnolo dropouts which came into existance in 1977. They were introduced with two 3mm dia. tapped holes in the right dropout. This holes were later dropped.

I would also be interested in the bottom bracket. This is probably an original part too. Is it Campagnolo? If it is, it is probably a Nuovo Record BB with a steel axle (top of the range used in both the Super and Nuovo Record groupsets). There was a Super Record titanium BB - very rare and prone to snapping.

Gary.

[paulau]

Thanks for all the info.

I was figuring i would lose the Shimano parts.

The rear wheel is a Velocity and the front is not labeled. Also couldn't see any markings on the hubs. The calipers on the brakes are DiaComp (sp?).

I will get some more info and take some more snaps when i get home from work.

Paul

[GaryF]

Diacomp made some pretty good brakes but no better than Campagnolo (which other makers copied).

The 105 rear derailleur probably changed better than a Campagnolo equivalent of the same era but it just doesn't have the quality or longevity of Campy. Front derailleurs are front derailleurs of thet era. Again, I'd stick to Campy.

Why Campagnolo? Durace was equal to or better than Campagnolo Record at that time but there is just something about Campagnolo on an Italian frame. Campagnolo of that era is still commanding good money when compared to Shimano.

Wheel hubs could be Shimano which were not clearly marked.

[paulau]

I think that if i did decide to rebuild her, i would probably go with Campagnolo or at least a Euro brand as it seems more fitting for an Italian bike.

Although maybe I could go Japanese components as it is a Tamari

[MountGower]

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[paulau]

Ok took it for a decent ride last night and really like the bike. Its definately quite aggressive, but fitted me well. I also grew to quite like having the shifters on the frame, as it made me think more about what gear to be in.

The seat is rubbish and needs to go.

The rear brake is a DiaComp, but the front is something else, possibly Shimano?




Bars


This is ugly as sin! and has to go!






Front Shimano Hub, rear is unmarked.



It does a few very minor bubbles in the paint, so i will pull a bit of paint off and check these. If i did get it repainted, i'd want some decals

Thanks,
Paul

[ggundersen]

front hub would be Shimano 600 AX

looks like galvanized spokes on front wheel

chainset looks painted so that would be Campagnolo Veloce - if not painted maybe Athena

Can't see what model ITM handlebar it is

if the 54 is the frame size then that would be from the middle of the chainset to middle of the top tube/seat tube

[GaryF]

So glad you like it. There's just something about a well built steel frame that makes it fantastic to ride.

I know what you mean about the saddle, you just have to have the right one.

Sounds like you can ride it while you consider what you want to do with it. At least you have a reference point with Mulga Bills bike as well as the great 'Decal' thread - looking into producing good quality decals at home.

Best of luck,

Gary.

[Kid_Carbine]

Does anybody else think that the front hub has been spoked incorectly?
The heads of the spokes should be down the hole & they should emerge from the plain side which would allow them to assume their correct tangential angle without having to bend over the lip of the recess.
If this is true, then somebody who should have known better wasn't paying attention.
The style of the hub, with the bulge in the middle, is not unlike the Bayliss Wylie "Featherweight" of the 50's & 60's. Yep, everything old becomes new again eventually.

Judging from the marks in the center of the crank retaining bolt, it looks like somebody tried to remove the crank with the bolt still in place. Now that would make it difficult.



Saddle selection is always such a worry.
Do you get your new Brooks [Professional?] with or without the Ti rails, with big rivets or small, black or tan, regular, or 'pre aged', as just a saddle or in the DeLuxe kit with saddle care products, but most importantly, is your backside worth it . Decisions decisions.