No wonder we have a bad name

Equipment and On Road Behaviour, Laws and Rules. Cycling Promotion and Advocacy

Re: No wonder we have a bad name

Postby x8pg2qr » Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:18 pm

m@ wrote:Sounds good in theory, but around here at least many divers get aggro if you dismount and walk across because it holds them up for longer - though of course others will be annoyed if you ride across even if it doesn't affect them at all. Classic catch-22. My solution is generally to stop a few metres back from the crossing and wait for a gap in traffic before crossing, but this wouldn't be practical for busy roads.


How do you know they get aggro? You ask them? Or different groups get aggro in different situations while others don't—but that's just life.

And that's not a catch-22. Catch-22 is if you are inexperienced and have to apply for a job requiring experience which you can't get without the job. Or whatshisface needs to be mad to want to fly, but seeking psychiatric help is a sign of a sane person. You are possibly describing a no-win situation.
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by BNA » Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:39 pm

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Re: No wonder we have a bad name

Postby m@ » Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:39 pm

martinjs wrote:I know I live in the sticks, but I did live in Melbourne for longer than I have lived here and rode about 4 years of that time and my riding habits and the way I treat traffic hasn't changed.
Ok I go a bit slower now :oops: but that's more to do with what I want out of cycling.

I just really believe that we can't go around winging about motorist breaking the law when we do the same. 2 wrongs still don't make a right in my humble opinion. :)

Martin

Oh, I agree - which is why I take the approach I do (walk across once it's clear). Canberra is probably a bit different to Melbourne in that despite (or perhaps because of) the large number of casual/commuter cyclists and excellent bike facilities, drivers are generally hostile toward cyclists - far more so than anywhere else I've ridden. So I guess while I generally don't succumb to the temptation to ride across for a car that has already stopped, I understand why others do when they feel under pressure from the waiting driver/s. In an ideal world I think the law would allow riding across after stopping.

Cyclists who fly across without looking either way OTOH are setting themselves up for a well-earned Darwin award - really dangerous as drivers may only be looking for slow-moving pedestrians already at the crossing.

x8pg2qr wrote:How do you know they get aggro? You ask them? Or different groups get aggro in different situations while others don't—but that's just life.

Oh, I can be surprisingly perceptive sometimes ;) But facial expressions including :( :? :x :evil: :o :arrow:, exagerated "WT?" gestures and occasionally yelling, revving and beeping can be giveaways...

At the end of the day it's their problem not mine if they are annoyed by others doing the right thing, but one of my no doubt many faults is wanting to please everybody ;)

x8pg2qr wrote:And that's not a catch-22. Catch-22 is if you are inexperienced and have to apply for a job requiring experience which you can't get without the job. Or whatshisface needs to be mad to want to fly, but seeking psychiatric help is a sign of a sane person. You are possibly describing a no-win situation.
Fair call, that.
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Re: No wonder we have a bad name

Postby martinjs » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:48 pm

I confess, I do try and stick to the laws of the land but have been know to go through stop signs, especially the one's on the edge of town where you can usually look both ways and see nothing coming for over a k each way. :oops:

On the other hand there are some give way signs in town that I stop at all the time because you can't see.

But don't tell anyone I said it. :oops: :lol:


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Re: No wonder we have a bad name

Postby Mulger bill » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:54 pm

Secrets safe with me. :wink:
I got no problem with a hearty application of observation and common sense to any situation. There's a few of those weirdly compelling give way signs wherever you go. The lad and I found a few in Taylors Lakes yesterday.
...whatever the road rules, self-preservation is the absolute priority for a cyclist when mixing it with motorised traffic.
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Re: No wonder we have a bad name

Postby Comedian » Fri Jan 21, 2011 6:38 am

m@ wrote:Oh, I agree - which is why I take the approach I do (walk across once it's clear). Canberra is probably a bit different to Melbourne in that despite (or perhaps because of) the large number of casual/commuter cyclists and excellent bike facilities, drivers are generally hostile toward cyclists - far more so than anywhere else I've ridden. So I guess while I generally don't succumb to the temptation to ride across for a car that has already stopped, I understand why others do when they feel under pressure from the waiting driver/s. In an ideal world I think the law would allow riding across after stopping.


Hey mate that's interesting. Conventional logic is that the more people that ride, the more accepting car drivers are of riders - and the better and safer experience cyclists have.

Do you think there could be other causes?
Once you can climb hills on a bike it's all downhill. :mrgreen:

Hopefully I'll know what that's like..... one day. :shock: :lol:

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Re: No wonder we have a bad name

Postby Ross » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:41 am

I've recently started a new job in the (Canb) city and naturally I like to ride my bike to work whenever possible...what an eye opener.

Today at about 8.30am I was riding down the footpath (you are allowed to in ACT) and I then came to a set of traffic lights (they were on the road) where I wanted to turn left to cross the road. There were probably 6-8 cyclists apart from myself (all commuter types, I was the only 'roadie') and maybe 10-12 pedestrians. The light was still red for crossing the road (Barry Dr) and all of a sudden there was a break in the traffic and woosh all the cyclists except me and one other cyclist went flying across the road against the red light. I waited the extra 20 seconds for the light to turn green and safely rode across the road. Not saying I'm Mr Goody two Shoes and I never do anything wrong but this seems very typical behaviour for these people. I think it's a mob mentality. One goes and then pretty much they all go, just because it seems like the 'thing to do'.

Saw another cyclist guy yesterday have a near miss with a car at a traffic light controlled intersection. The light was green to cross 4 lanes of traffic (Ginninderra Dr near Lyneham) and then there was a turning lane (fast sweeper) that was also traffic light controlled but the light for it was red. I crossed the first four lanes and was slowing to stop for the red light and a guy that game fast from behind me started to go around and stopped at the last second as he realised there was a a car fast approaching - I'm pretty sure he never noticed or cared what colour the light was.

Please people, if you are going to kill yourselves do it away from me. I don't have the time or inclination to deal with it.
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Re: No wonder we have a bad name

Postby m@ » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:55 am

Comedian wrote:
m@ wrote:Oh, I agree - which is why I take the approach I do (walk across once it's clear). Canberra is probably a bit different to Melbourne in that despite (or perhaps because of) the large number of casual/commuter cyclists and excellent bike facilities, drivers are generally hostile toward cyclists - far more so than anywhere else I've ridden. So I guess while I generally don't succumb to the temptation to ride across for a car that has already stopped, I understand why others do when they feel under pressure from the waiting driver/s. In an ideal world I think the law would allow riding across after stopping.


Hey mate that's interesting. Conventional logic is that the more people that ride, the more accepting car drivers are of riders - and the better and safer experience cyclists have.

Do you think there could be other causes?


Yeah, there was a Stateline story last year about a survey on attitudes toward cyclists and bike infrastructure, IIRC the ACT had the most negative attitudes by a fair margin. Which doesn't really make much sense when we have a good road network with bike lanes, amongst the best commute times of any Australian city and probably the most condusive conditions for cycle commuting overall.

I'd put it down to a few things; IME the proportion of unhelmeted, red-light-running cyclists is pretty high; there are comparitively good shared paths and lanes (though they are fragmented and disconnected) so drivers expect cyclists to stay off 'their' roads and resent any money spent on additional facilities; and the wide roads and lack of police means that drivers are accustomed to speeding with impunity - so slowing down for anything is anathema.

At the end of the day it's probably just part of the bigger picture; many ACT drivers are generally pretty impatient and rude IME :| Give me Sydney drivers any day.
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Re: No wonder we have a bad name

Postby il padrone » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:16 am

Comedian wrote:Hey mate that's interesting. Conventional logic is that the more people that ride, the more accepting car drivers are of riders - and the better and safer experience cyclists have.

That 'safety in numbers' principle is about numbers riding on the roads. Canberra has mainly off-road facilities. Anyone who dares to intrude into car driving territory is an interloper and gets blasted :roll:
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Re: No wonder we have a bad name

Postby il padrone » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:19 am

m@ wrote:At the end of the day it's probably just part of the bigger picture; many ACT drivers are generally pretty impatient and rude IME :| Give me Sydney drivers any day.

Jeez mate, that's pretty bad :shock:
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Re: No wonder we have a bad name

Postby Mustang » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:28 am

martinjs wrote:Ok I go a bit slower now :oops: but that's more to do with what I want out of cycling.

I just really believe that we can't go around winging about motorist breaking the law when we do the same. 2 wrongs still don't make a right in my humble opinion. :)

Martin

Thats the most sensible phrase I've read on this subject!!!!
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Re: No wonder we have a bad name

Postby il padrone » Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:40 am

martinjs wrote:I confess, I do try and stick to the laws of the land but have been know to go through stop signs, especially the one's on the edge of town where you can usually look both ways and see nothing coming for over a k each way. :oops:

Rolling stops for cyclists would be a pretty sensible rule modification to introduce IMHO. Drivers cannot hear traffic and have all the distractions of sound system, mobile phone (hands free), GPS, kids fighting, make-up etc. There are a couple of stop signs near me that I always stop at when driving, but on the bike I am approaching slow and have a heap of visibility, plus on the left turn I can go strainght into a parking bay section that cross traffic never uses. The stop sign is really irrelevant for me.
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