Riding a bike with no lights in poor visibility...

[elStado]

Ok.. so I've been on a bit of a tirade for the past few months. Basically I have noticed that there is a seemingly increasing amount of people riding bikes and BSO's with no lights in conditions of poor visibility (night, dawn/dusk, overcast/stormy etc). What I have been doing is saying to them "where's your lights?" or "LIGHTS!!???".. normally they just give me a strange look and keep on riding, I even had one guy reply back to me tonight with "where's yours?" (I was walking on the footpath home).

I was wondering if this is making any difference... I honestly have no idea why people would put themselves at such a high risk of being injured or killed for the sake of a $8 set of lights. I am hoping that maybe if another cyclist tells them that they are in the wrong they might realise that they aren't as visible as they thought they are and go buy some lights and use them. I've almost had a few prangs with people on bikes with no lights and dark clothes, cycling, walking or driving, on separate occasions. I feel as if it is within my right to say something to them as they put me at risk of being injured or injuring them. For example almost took one guy out riding a BSO, no lights and dark clothes at 11pm as I was driving a Land Cruiser. He cut across the road in front of me and was almost cleaned up, if I hit him at the speed I was doing I would have killed him. I think it was fairly reasonable that I slowed down as I drove past him as told him to get some <expletive> lights and watch how he was riding.

So.. people riding on a bike during low visibility... no lights and often dark clothes.. is yelling out/saying something about getting some lights/obeying road rules worth it, or am I wasting my time? Maybe all us cyclists who actually know the importance of being visible and obeying road rules while riding (especially at night) should all start harassing anyone who is being a muppet and giving us all a bad name?

Your thoughts/comments.

[Max]

I had a similar conundrum a while back - see this thread. In the end, I decided to say absolutely nothing about it. My thoughts are that the people who do this actually don't really care about their own safety or that of others, and that advice will probably fall on deaf ears.

Max

[il padrone]

They're really like the skydiver with no parachute, plummeting past you - "So far, so good!"

[ireland57]

I ride with workmates from time to time starting in the pre-dawn.

They always wear dark clothes, one wears black shirt and pants and has a light which is so weak you've got to light a match to see if it's going.

They are intelligent people but it hasn't sunk in yet.

I ride in high vis gear with good helmet lights so I can "spot" the driver if required. It's saved me a few times from a near miss.

I nearly it a cyclist wearing black with no lights in a dark area. Saw him 3 metres away; lucky man.

[Uncle Grumpy]

I've yelled out similar, normally when some clown on a bike or BSO pulls some suicidal move at night and I nearly take them down.

Normally it is a dockyard worker's version of "You should purchase some lights because as it is, you are a danger to yourself and those around you and I question your intellect and genetic makeup."

Hmm, I cleaned that up, but the actual version is only about 6 words long.

The worst is the motorised BSO, because obviously adding the weight of a light is going to kill the fuel efficiency or something.

Grumps

[russellgarrard]

It's kind of funny explaining to pedestrians that 'I have a light, it's in my pocket'...I can't exactly test all of my chinese equipment all at once can I?

Last one, the clip failed with-in a few minutes, hit the ground, shattered. Oh well!

Got another one (different type) on express order. About to go into the shops today and pick up a light just to fill the time in.

[jet-ski]

You're wasting your time Elstado... would have thought most people would understand that.... you're preaching to people who don't care...

[russellgarrard]

Thanks Kalgrm

[Kalgrm]

Jet-ski, if somehow your referring to me ...

He's not. You're getting paranoid.

Cheers,
Graeme

[elStado]

You're wasting your time Elstado... would have thought most people would understand that.... you're preaching to people who don't care...

Yeah I was kind of thinking that. But on the other hand I also think that maybe some people are genuinely ignorant as to how invisible they actually are, and having someone else tell them to get light might just make then realise that they need some.

It's tough as well, as yelling something at a person on the wrong is always going to be pretty ineffective. But when they ride past you with no lights at full speed and you don't see them until the last minute, you can't exactly pull them up for a friendly chat about the life saving benefits of being visible at night...

I think I'm going to keep yelling "LIGHTS!?" to people in the wrong, as maybe it might make a difference, even if it's just 1 in 100 people.

[r2160]

Personally I think they are nuts.

I have a responsibility to myself to make myself as visible as I can. There are enough fools driving cars as it is. The last thing I want to give them is an excuse to hit me.

cheers
Glenn

[trailgumby]

+1.

[il padrone]

I think I'm going to keep yelling "LIGHTS!?" to people in the wrong, as maybe it might make a difference, even if it's just 1 in 100 people.

Go right ahead, but try to yell "LIGHTS, MR (MS) INVISIBLE" to add the fact they are hidden to traffic.

[elStado]

I think I'm going to keep yelling "LIGHTS!?" to people in the wrong, as maybe it might make a difference, even if it's just 1 in 100 people.

Go right ahead, but try to yell "LIGHTS, MR (MS) INVISIBLE" to add the fact they are hidden to traffic.

Yeah that sounds a bit better.

[Ross]

I had a similar conundrum a while back - see this thread. In the end, I decided to say absolutely nothing about it. My thoughts are that the people who do this actually don't really care about their own safety or that of others, and that advice will probably fall on deaf ears.

Max

^^This

[elStado]

Just think. Every time there's a ninja riding around, they are giving us all a bad name.

Every time a person is injured/killed in an accident because they are invisible, it makes cycling seem more dangerous to the general public, further discouraging potential cyclists and therefore making cycling less safe and receive less support/funding than it could.

With this in mind, I think it is imperative that any responsible cyclist/person should remind any ninja cyclists that they are invisible and need to be seen.

[human909]

Cyclist ride without likes because;
they didn't plan on riding at night,
the lights got stolen,
the lights got damaged,
the light fell off,
they forgot them,

Most people realise it unsafe, but they still ride regardless.

BV did surveys regarding light and they still didn't ask the right questions. http://www.bv.com.au/general/bikes-&-riding/91407/

[elStado]

Cyclist ride without likes because;
they didn't plan on riding at night,
the lights got stolen,
the lights got damaged,
the light fell off,
they forgot them,

Most people realise it unsafe, but they still ride regardless.

BV did surveys regarding light and they still didn't ask the right questions. http://www.bv.com.au/general/bikes-&-riding/91407/

None of those are good enough excuses.

Anyone who has more than two brain cells to rub together should have a spare set of emergency/backup lights. I personally have about 5 rear lights and 4 front lights. You can buy awesome little LED backup/secondary lights for as little as 5$, so there's no excuse. I always have at least two lights of each colour (white/red) on each of my bikes, so in the circumstance of one breaking or running out of battery I will have a good chance of having the other one working to get me home. I also keep a couple of spare LED blinky lights at home in the spare parts "bike box", just in case I have them stolen.

It's Dawinism at it's finest, but the fact is that these ninjas are giving all cyclists a bad name in the process, something that really irks me.

[gorilla monsoon]

I have learned, as i go through life, that the only person I should really worry about is me.

Whenever i ride I choose to have bright lights front and back, I choose to have a blinkie on my helmet and riding glasses that have LEDs either side, I choose to wear a high-vis vest when I'm riding pre-dawn anywhere and I pretty much wear it anytime I'm riding on the road unless it is a big, organised ride event.

But if others choose not to do these things then that is there issue to deal with.

I did actually say something to another rider once, a long time ago, and was told in no uncertain terms to "pull your f---in' head in, d---head!" so now I don't say anything.

Yes, they are dangerous, yes, they give us a bad name but yes, they have their own justifiable reasons for doing it. I know because i have read some of their thoughts in posts to this very forum.

So while I understand and appreciate the sentiment expressed by the OP I suggest you save your breath for riding and look after yourself.

[russellgarrard]

Well...decided to take the plunge and punch a hole in the webbing on my Limar...so I could fit my helmet light to it. Had to do it...

Wondering when this chinese supplier is going to pull their finger out though!

[Nate]

Carry a torch in your car, if there's a ninja just ride along him & shine the light on them
"I'm helping you - you're welcome"

"I look after myself"... always a hard one...
If "we" cyclists are actively seen trying to clean up the other cyclists - it could really help our image

Do motorists clean up other motorists image? no
do pedestrians clean up other pedestrians image? no

but hey... cant hurt can it?

[human909]

Cyclist ride without likes because;
they didn't plan on riding at night,
the lights got stolen,
the lights got damaged,
the light fell off,
they forgot them,

Most people realise it unsafe, but they still ride regardless.

BV did surveys regarding light and they still didn't ask the right questions. http://www.bv.com.au/general/bikes-&-riding/91407/

None of those are good enough excuses.

They are not excuses they are reasons! And unless they are addressed then they people riding without lights will continue to happen. Fining cyclists is not a constructive action and it clearly doesn't work.

At least down here in Melbourne government has been spending millions on the bike share. Throwing money towards subsidies for helmets for tourists. It would make far more sense to supply 7-elevens and vending machines selling bike lights for $2 rather than selling cheap helmets. Make cheap bike lights available at night and I'm sure you'll see less ninjas. A huge purchase should get the price of these down to $2.

So if you have energy to devote to this issue why not direct it towards encouraging solutions rather that bitching about it.

[il padrone]

And get a stock of this tail-light - the batteries would be twice the cost of the light

[elStado]

They are not excuses they are reasons! And unless they are addressed then they people riding without lights will continue to happen. Fining cyclists is not a constructive action and it clearly doesn't work.

True.

At least down here in Melbourne government has been spending millions on the bike share. Throwing money towards subsidies for helmets for tourists. It would make far more sense to supply 7-elevens and vending machines selling bike lights for $2 rather than selling cheap helmets. Make cheap bike lights available at night and I'm sure you'll see less ninjas. A huge purchase should get the price of these down to $2.

Great idea.

In fact these are even better, same price and design, but they are 1x red and 1x white. I actually got myself a pair last week after using these for the past 6 months and I can say that for a $5 set of lights they are extremely bright and effective as a safety/hazard/secondary light.

So if you have energy to devote to this issue why not direct it towards encouraging solutions rather that bitching about it.

Woah woah, tune it down a little. I don't see myself as "bitching about it", more so a.) venting my frustration and b.) see if there's a better way about it. Which you have illustrated there is. OK.

And get a stock of this tail-light - the batteries would be twice the cost of the light

$1.40 for a pair of quality batteries. I have used these myself with my planet bike rear light and they are good.

[human909]

Woah woah, tune it down a little. I don't see myself as "bitching about it", more so a.) venting my frustration and b.) see if there's a better way about it. Which you have illustrated there is. OK.

Ok. Fair enough. I apologise for the comment.

I've been caught out without light a few times. Its not good but I still have to get home. But I'm placing an order for these cheapies so all my bikes have them on it permanently. If I'll tape them down so they don't get stolen. Riding in inner Melbourne back streets I have no big issue with going short distances without lights. The longer commutes I have sometime resorted to going via a bike track. . No way would I ride Heidelberg road at night without lights.

The problem is getting bigger in inner Melbourne because of the commuter cycling explosion the area is having. There are alot of new people on bikes and many don't have lights. Bike Victoria has been frustrated and been helping things by combing force with the police with a carrot and stick approach.