Toscana Trials
- nimm
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Postby nimm » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:22 pm
- europa
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Postby europa » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:33 pm
Different sort of 'putting your back into it'. Your back is fully supported by the seat, so I wouldn't worry about it. It might also be a case of novice tension. It's certainly a different spinning style to riding a df, but how much of what I'm doing is necessary and how much of it is just me making hard work of it, I don't know.nimm wrote:Richard I was asking Graeme about 'putting your back into it' cause I hurt my back doing something like that about 5 years ago. It's good now but I'm weary about stressing it like that and he mentioned he doesn't peddle like that at all. i.e. he spins, if anything more so than on a DF. Graeme - correct me if I'm wrong or misinterpreted what you said
It might depend on the bike you're riding too. With mine, with the bb so far above the seat, I feel as though I'm using a lot of muscle to hold the legs up there, and it's probably that this is where a lot of the 'back effort' is coming from.
Having said all that, there is definite pressure against my back from the seat ie, I'm pushing down into the seat as I push hard against the pedals, but no, I can't see it agravating your back and there's nothing to say you can't just relax and spin. Remember also that I'm only noticing this when I've been pushing up some steepish slopes - on the flat, I'm completely relaxed (or could be if I weren't so darned nervous)
Richard
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Postby nimm » Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:18 pm
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Postby Hotdog » Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:14 pm
I am always spinning, keeping the cadence in the 80s at least and often 90-100 when cruising. When I'm working at a low or moderate rate, i.e. riding on flatish or descending ground at a cruisy/sustainable/recovery pace, then the pressure on my back isn't noticeably more than just my own weight. If I'm working hard though, either sprinting on the level or climbing a steep hill, then I'll feel myself pushing into the seat as I pedal away. It's a natural consequence of upping your power output.
I think the risk of causing problems for your back (or knees) is pretty low, by keeping the cadence up there's a natural limit on how hard you can push. Nimm, did you hurt your back in some sort of static/slow speed leg press type of situation? You can apply a lot more force that way than you can when your legs are moving at 90rpm.
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Postby nimm » Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:21 pm
The doctor I went to see was an ex-military doc who worked with paratroopers and said it was fine. But since then, and possibly due to me spending all work days sitting in a chair, my lower back gets sore unless I do regular exercise.
I'm not worried about gentle pressure and your back muscles will develop along the way. I was more concerned with things like climbing hills if you really exerted a lot of pressure on the back.
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Postby Kalgrm » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:10 am
I'd be worried about pushing so hard that you need to brace yourself against the seat. That's when you will encounter knee problems. You would be better off keeping the cadence up and spinning (circular pedalling).
Nimm, next time we catch up, I'll get you onto my bike and you can see if your back will be affected by the position.
Cheers,
Graeme
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Music was better when ugly people were allowed to make it ....
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Postby Uba Tracker » Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:28 pm
Hi Nimm, like yourself I spend all day seated and I also get the sore lower back pains, you also mentioned you get relief while on a regular exercise regimen. We humans really aren't designed to spend long hours in a seated or sedintry position, as a result we lose condition, not only a lack of stamina but more importantly we lose the ability to maintain our posture. Our muscles become weak and unaccustomed to doing their job and as a result they tire easily, the worst case being the inabilty to adequately support the spine and in some instances over compensation. The end result, an aching back. The tonic is execise, get the body moving, get the flexibilty back and get those posture muscles back in the game. Getting on to the 'bent did the trick for me, great back support, no jarring and fast, man are they quick. Rounded up a couple of DF's this morn, made 'em look like bus stops, gotta be happy with that.nimm wrote:I was doing something stupid when I was younger Pumping my legs with as much force as I could until suddenly something in my lower back felt like it was on fire.
The doctor I went to see was an ex-military doc who worked with paratroopers and said it was fine. But since then, and possibly due to me spending all work days sitting in a chair, my lower back gets sore unless I do regular exercise.
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Postby John Lewis » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:12 pm
Good to see you out there taming the new beast.
If you find yourself pushing hard at a lowish cadence you really do need to gear down and spin up.
There could be a real chance of knee damage in the long term otherwise.
I find that on hills where my cadence goes way low and I've run out of gears and push hard, I end up with knee pain that often persists into the next day or two so I do try to spin where possible.
Mind you my age also has a bit to do with it.
John
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Postby Mulger bill » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:26 pm
Shaun
London Boy 29/12/2011
- europa
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Postby europa » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:34 am
I've been 'told' I can get away with two day's stubble but that's it.Mulger bill wrote:Wonder if the beard's coming along as well?
Shaun
Actually, until my early forties, I had a full beard and a pony tail I could grab by reaching up behind me The beard wasn't a good look - I looked like a depressed Irish Wolfhound But it went well with the Collie I used to train
Richard
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Postby europa » Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:59 pm
Actually, I did the run shown, then continued along the beach to Glenelg, back up the Sturt River, then the above run in reverse ... which meant I had to go UP Expressway Hill
I actually rode the bent up Expressway Hilll ... apart from the 150m steep bit where I walked. You hit that steep bit about 2km into the climb and it's around 10% grade. I guess I could have stubborned the thing out but the HRM had hysterics and I've learned that if I stop and walk early, I recover and the rest of the ride is easy whereas if I push into my max HR zone, I'm stuffed. Give me a month and I'll barely notice that bit ... sort of
I even fell off Turned left onto a road - very low speed, steep turn, gutter across the road, car coming up from my right. As I looked to see where the car was, the front wheel side swiped the kerb and boomp, over on my rump onto the dirt. No damage or injury, though the speed sensor was bumped and I rode for nearly half a km before I noticed the computer thought I was still stationary.
45 km trip.
2h 25m so a low average, but the climb is done at around or less than 10km/hr and there's 3km of it. I also found myself loafing along rather than pushing it, which is fair enough. I do this ride for fat burning and fitness, not race training. It's probably also a reaction to my inexperience n the bent too.
Hit 61km/hr coming down the hill and that was just coasting I'm looking forward to doing a speed run down it one day
I'm getting this pedalling business sorted out. The forces are all so different from an upright bike that it's hard knowing exactly what is happening.
I've developed a feel I call 'loose feet'. I've found that a lot of pressure I've felt in my legs is actually pushing hard at the end of the stroke and hence is wasted effort and probably not real good for me. So I started to concentrate on the old 'scrape something off the bottom of your shoe' technique, only modified slightly. I aim to feel as though I'm pulling the pedal down (actually feel my foot move in my shoe). Clearly, that in itself isn't efficient, but I get that feel and then relax and suddenly I'm spinning cleanly and freely. No pressure in the legs. No sense of the back pressed into the seat. Great power and good climbing.
The learning curve goes on, but at least it's not as steep as it was a month ago.
Richard
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Postby Kalgrm » Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:05 pm
While I was over in Vic, I only had my MTB with me, and even that bike I didn't ride enough to be of great benefit to my fitness (was fun though). When I returned and jumped on the bent, my lower-outer hamstrings really noticed the difference in riding technique. Man was I stiff for a few days! All good now though.
Cheers,
Graeme
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Music was better when ugly people were allowed to make it ....
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Postby Uba Tracker » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:13 pm
- Mulger bill
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Postby Mulger bill » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:22 pm
I think that's right I tend to class hills as "Stand and grunt", "Mid ring spin", "Granny gear spin" and "Buggerit, time to push". Saves energy for the legs that way
Shaun
London Boy 29/12/2011
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Postby Uba Tracker » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:25 pm
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Postby Mulger bill » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:32 pm
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Postby Hotdog » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:32 pm
Strictly speaking it's (height climbed / horizontal distance covered) x 100%, but (height climbed / distance along the road) x 100% is close enough most of the time. Percentage grades are more common than degrees of incline as the grades give a direct indication of the extra forces you have to overcome to climb the hill, it's just the grade x your weight.
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Postby Uba Tracker » Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:35 pm
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