healthy weight (BMI)

[gtfpv cycler]

wow . i so appreciate , the advice , experience , and some very wise comments in this thread . thanks guys , i take it all in , use it , and like hearing others experiences and thoughts on the matter as well . measured myself this morning . 168.5 cm ( every mm helps when your short . LOL .)
I only weigh in on fridays , but i must say this weeks been a struggle . i havent been keen on riding /walking ,or running daily , so have given myself 2 day breaks in between ( thats only exercising 3rd daily) after the 50km ride a few days ago , my body has been extremely hungry ,and i have been lacking energy , 2 days after that i struggled to do a 20km ride . i've now had another 2 day break and am just about to do 50kays again .
the feeling i'm getting is that my body has realised its 4 to 5 kg loss in 8 weeks , and wants to put it back on , increasing my hunger .infact over the last 2 days i wouldnt mind betting i've put weight on .
anyhow , i've got 2 weeks off work , looking forward to doing around 80 to 100kms on the bike per week and a little running , i think i might do 50km once a week , then 20km rides 2nd daily after that , depending how i feel .
cheers .
speaking to some guys at work last night , commenting on my weight loss , they say i'm looking lean now , but i know i have a pot belly only visible with the shirt off . anyhow they asked me how much more i want to lose , i said another 8 kg, another worker said there'll be nothing of you if you lose that . i would have a bmi over 25 at 72 and still be over weight .
however looking in the mirror now , i still think i'm carrying a few kgs too many .

[Comedian]

Hey mate get yourself into the acf losers thread. Great support there

[sogood]

anyhow they asked me how much more i want to lose , i said another 8 kg, another worker said there'll be nothing of you if you lose that . i would have a bmi over 25 at 72 and still be over weight .

Shows again how perception in the community can be way off the mark.

Took notice of the the adults at the school Easter Hat Parade today, it's amazing how many can be classified in the obese category. No wonder Australia is getting fatter and less healthy.

[fatherofmany]

MotherOfMany is the same height as you and (before pregnant) weighed in around 58kg. She's got a decent amount of muscle from years of working horses (and now carrying children) so not your normal skinny armed chick. Admittedly being male, you could expect a few more kilos from a higher muscle/fat ratio. Mid 60's I'd say would be easily achievable if you're going to eat well, cycle like you say and keep an active lifestyle. Just remember it went on slow so don't expect your body to like it if you take it off fast.

FoM

[waynohh]

Whether you're carrying muscle or fat, your heart still has to pump harder against that extra pressure and volume, so BMI isn't useless.

Also, you're talking like being hungry is a bad thing, it's the opposite.

[fatherofmany]

Whether you're carrying muscle or fat, your heart still has to pump harder against that extra pressure and volume, so BMI isn't useless.

Not completely true, pumping blood 'through active tissue' such as muscle is easier than 'through inactive adipose tissue' ie fat. That is to say it takes less pressure to pump through muscle than fat with leg muscles actually assisting the pumping and so good leg muscles reduce the work your heart has to do.

[mikesbytes]

And for many of us, but not all, fat levels are an indicator of other health related issues, such as blocked arteries.

[sogood]

And for many of us, but not all, fat levels are an indicator of other health related issues, such as blocked arteries.

Careful with that statement.

[Eugene]

And for many of us, but not all, fat levels are an indicator of other health related issues, such as blocked arteries.

Careful with that statement.

Agree +1,

I know I am fat, my current BMI is 33.9, it was 10 weeks ago at 37.65, but I still didn’t have a GUT, I am 180cm tall but built like a brick shithouse, my biceps are 18" (45cm) in dia, top of my thighs are 35" (89cm) in dia, that is each, my calves are 20" ( 50cm), they are not fat, they are big from years of motocross, gym work, carrying 60kg tool bags up and down endless stairs, but according to the BMI I am one foot in the grave.

My cholesterol is perfect, on the low side actually, my blood pressure is perfect, I donate Plasma every two weeks and get a perfect blood test result every time, but according to BMI I should be dead.

I am sure if someone lived a life in the office, with a coffee cup the biggest thing they lifted every day, ate a well balanced diet and did zero resistance exercise only, then they may achieve a "healthy" BMI, maybe as we get older and muscle waists away the same will happen?

As a point of interest, for me to have a "healthy" BMI, I should weigh between 60 and 80KG, I was 80 kg in year 10 at high school, when I was 15, I looked like a greyhound, now I may look like a Clydesdale but I know I am not about to die from a weight related issue, maybe a crazy driver an the road, but not because I am fat.

Again, I know I am fat, I am working my ass off to get to 95-98KG without loosing muscle mass, I will have body fat % of around 11% , but still be obese by BMI.

[sogood]

I know I am fat, my current BMI is 33.9, it was 10 weeks ago at 37.65, but I still didn’t have a GUT... but according to the BMI I am one foot in the grave.

BMI says you have a significantly higher risk of death from cardiovascular disease amongst other other diseases. You'll be significantly more healthier if you bring your BMI down. closer to the norm. Absence of gut is but a visual/measurable parameter amongst many. A the end of the day, life is a game of chance, only you can decide what odds you'd like to play with.

[gtfpv cycler]

great posts here . due to my cycling of around 100km per week so far , on a mixed level , of 12.5 sprint, 30km ride , 50 km and 60 km rides , i cycle every 2nd day now , i am noticing these things . massive hunger increase , i am eating rather than sustaining , because i feel i have too , my body is shrinking all over , i still have a gut , my thighs are becoming hard , the hair is growing back on my legs like it was when i was 20, i have lost 5 kg in about 8 weeks since i started training , riding for 4 weeks . my clothes are becoming loose all over , my belt now is back around my waist , not my belly button, i have aching arms and legs , i need to sleep longer ( about 9 hours now ) my knees dont hurt anymore , i'm looking not over weight in clothes , but still naked i have a gut .
i guess i can now see the relationship between BMI and healthy weight , purely because i'm smaller all over but still the same shape , until my body starts changing proportions , i think quite a bit more weight has to come off .my arms are still pretty muscly i think , havent shrunk yet , thighs are probably the biggest difference , i've never worked on lower body before , always arms and chest .
the comment about it went on slow , so it should come off slow , i really believe , always lost weight fast in the passed. the amount i'm snacking , i think perhaps on friday (* weigh in day ) i'll probably be heavier , but i thought that last week and still lost some .
the baest things , i can breath better now , i can recover quickly , and i can endure without having to stop. i feel like i'm starting to look like i did at 35 . i'm 42 . i'm still a little impatient though , but getting there . i think over all , ( well i hope anyways ) i'm more tolerant of daily life .

[casual_cyclist]

I know I am fat, my current BMI is 33.9, it was 10 weeks ago at 37.65, but I still didn’t have a GUT... but according to the BMI I am one foot in the grave.

BMI says you have a significantly higher risk of death from cardiovascular disease amongst other other diseases. You'll be significantly more healthier if you bring your BMI down. closer to the norm. Absence of gut is but a visual/measurable parameter amongst many. A the end of the day, life is a game of chance, only you can decide what odds you'd like to play with.

I thought smoking, high blood pressure, high cholesterol and physical inactivity were more likely risk factors for cardiovascular disease than a high BMI in the absence of the other risk factors. You seem to put a lot of faith in BMI. Did you know that there is the "old" BMI and the "new" BMI? Under the "old" BMI, 26.9 was not considered overweight. Under the "new" BMI, 25 is considered overweight. (1)

An actual study "showed that mortality was lowest among people with BMI levels of between 22.6 and 27.5." (2). Noting that 27.5 is considered "overweight" by the "new" BMI.

More recent research indicates that "BMI is not predictive of cardiovascular risk after adjusting for other factors, research finds, suggesting it should not be added to risk-prediction models as some have proposed." (3) Although there has been some work around combining waist measurements with BMI for a more accurate indicator which I though indicated that waist measurement was a better predictor. Perhaps not (4).

Bottom line is that not all obese people will develop cardiovascular disease but some "normal weight" people will. This raises the question as to whether obesity is a reliable predictor of cardiovascular disease?

I think the link between being overweight and cardiovascular disease (CVD) might have been misunderstood because of this:
a) known risk factors for CVD are: physical inactivity, high blood pressure and high cholesterol (5). Being overweight may be common in people with these risk factors.
b) an increase in physical activity reduces blood pressure and cholesterol? and also assists with weight loss. It could also be that people trying to lose weight (because it was perceived as a risk factor for CVD) eat better which results in lower blood pressure (less salt) and lower cholesterol.
c) as patients lose weight, risk factors reduce leading researchers to believe that it is the lower weight that has led to the reduced risk factor, not lower blood pressure or lower cholesterol which might not have been measured.

It would be interesting if that is true. Anyway, I haven't seen any research that supports the theory that merely being overweight is itself a risk factor for CVD without other risk factors being present.

Personally, I think it is more important to be physically active and eat well (to maintain cholesterol) and less important to be the "right" BMI.

Of course I would be happy to review any research which indicates this is not the case.

(1) http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/st ... ptimal.htm
(2) http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ ... 2003498907
(3) http://www.endocrinologyupdate.com.au/n ... we-thought
(4) http://www.endocrinetoday.com/view.aspx?rid=81466
(5) http://www.health.state.ny.us/diseases/chronic/cvd.htm

[Eugene]

I know I am fat, my current BMI is 33.9, it was 10 weeks ago at 37.65, but I still didn’t have a GUT... but according to the BMI I am one foot in the grave.

BMI says you have a significantly higher risk of death from cardiovascular disease amongst other other diseases. You'll be significantly more healthier if you bring your BMI down. closer to the norm. Absence of gut is but a visual/measurable parameter amongst many. A the end of the day, life is a game of chance, only you can decide what odds you'd like to play with.

To have higher risk of Cardiovascular disease I would also need an increase in blood pressure, it isn't, it is 110-117 over 70-80, every time, I would also expect to see higher Cholesterol levels, it isnt, it is a little under the guideline.

I do however know that no gut doesn't mean I am not fat, but I would have to loose over 20kg of muscle, yes, lean, strong muscle. I am not prepared to loose that much muscle mass to reach an unobtainable BMI which is based on office workers with chests smaller than my thighs.

I have a good friend who got right into bikes a few years back, road races now, he is just over 183cm tall, and is now under 75kg, right in the healthy BMI, he looks like a cancer patient, his cheeks are drawn in, where he had muscle mass on his arms are loose skin, he needs more muscle, not fat, I doubt he could lift a carton of beer above his head, but he is healthier than me. I cant work it out.

[sogood]

Yes, there's obviously been a lot of research on BMI through the years and there are various ranges proposed both in temporal as well as geographic parameters. But the key isn't about that 0.1 difference, but knowing that it's a continuum on a distribution curve. Given it indicates a risk factor to longevity, why get so resistant to reducing one's risks? Naturally low blood pressure is good from a cardiovascular risk point of view, but it guarantees nothing. At the end of the day, no one can know what will hit them tomorrow or 20 years down the track. The only rational strategy is to optimise all known parameters. Of course, at the end of the day, we make our own body.

[Comedian]

And for many of us, but not all, fat levels are an indicator of other health related issues, such as blocked arteries.

Careful with that statement.

Agree +1,

I know I am fat, my current BMI is 33.9, it was 10 weeks ago at 37.65, but I still didn’t have a GUT, I am 180cm tall but built like a brick shithouse, my biceps are 18" (45cm) in dia, top of my thighs are 35" (89cm) in dia, that is each, my calves are 20" ( 50cm), they are not fat, they are big from years of motocross, gym work, carrying 60kg tool bags up and down endless stairs, but according to the BMI I am one foot in the grave.

My cholesterol is perfect, on the low side actually, my blood pressure is perfect, I donate Plasma every two weeks and get a perfect blood test result every time, but according to BMI I should be dead.

I am sure if someone lived a life in the office, with a coffee cup the biggest thing they lifted every day, ate a well balanced diet and did zero resistance exercise only, then they may achieve a "healthy" BMI, maybe as we get older and muscle waists away the same will happen?

As a point of interest, for me to have a "healthy" BMI, I should weigh between 60 and 80KG, I was 80 kg in year 10 at high school, when I was 15, I looked like a greyhound, now I may look like a Clydesdale but I know I am not about to die from a weight related issue, maybe a crazy driver an the road, but not because I am fat.

Again, I know I am fat, I am working my ass off to get to 95-98KG without loosing muscle mass, I will have body fat % of around 11% , but still be obese by BMI.

I understand where you're coming from Eugene. BMI is just a guide. My health bmi is 65kg to 87 (187cm). I'm now at 80, and I've maybe only got a couple more to loose to be spot on. I've never had more muscle in my entire life.

However before I started biking I thought I've got a bit of a gut..but I'm not really fat. however when I started loosing weight I lost weight from everywhere. Now I have all these areas that used to be what I thought were "muscle" and they are just gone.

I'm afraid I think that if/when you loose some weight you'll be astonished at how your whole body shrinks... including all the areas that you thought were muscle. Sorry to say

As to your mate looking like a cancer patient... I bet if you went back 50 or 100 years he would just be considered normal.

[casual_cyclist]

Yes, there's obviously been a lot of research on BMI through the years and there are various ranges proposed both in temporal as well as geographic parameters. But the key isn't about that 0.1 difference, but knowing that it's a continuum on a distribution curve. Given it indicates a risk factor to longevity, why get so resistant to reducing one's risks? Naturally low blood pressure is good from a cardiovascular risk point of view, but it guarantees nothing. At the end of the day, no one can know what will hit them tomorrow or 20 years down the track. The only rational strategy is to optimise all known parameters. Of course, at the end of the day, we make our own body.

I must have missed that memo... I haven't seen the research that indicates that BMI is a risk factor to longevity. I am not resistant to reducing my risks of cardiovascular disease. I just want to make sure that I am directing my efforts in the right direction. For example, I could lose weight (and have) by starving myself or by exercising and eating sensibly. The research indicates that increasing physical activity reduces risk factors for CVD significantly more than simply losing weight. I have also had my blood pressure and cholesterol checked out to make sure they are ok. To give you some idea, I am slightly overweight according to BMI but my Doctor was a lot more interested in my blood pressure, cholesterol and physical activity levels than my weight. Fortunately, my cholesterol levels are already low but to try to maintain my low levels I try to include foods in my diet that have been shown to or thought to lower cholesterol. On the basis of the studies that I have read I would advise people to get active before I advised them to lose weight. It's not about resisting reducing risks, it's about giving people sound advice based on the evidence.

[casual_cyclist]

i havent been keen on riding /walking ,or running daily , so have given myself 2 day breaks in between ( thats only exercising 3rd daily) after the 50km ride a few days ago , my body has been extremely hungry ,and i have been lacking energy , 2 days after that i struggled to do a 20km ride . i've now had another 2 day break and am just about to do 50kays again .
the feeling i'm getting is that my body has realised its 4 to 5 kg loss in 8 weeks , and wants to put it back on , increasing my hunger .infact over the last 2 days i wouldnt mind betting i've put weight on .

All of your physical activity is great for your health. Being hungry is lousy though. There are two theories about why you get hungry after losing some weight: weight set point theory and leptin threshold. Both theories are that you can't lose weight beyond a pre-determined level. Personally, I think that both theories are rubbish. I have found that if I ride the hunger out then I stop being hungry at my new weight. I have dropped from 110kg+ to 93kg without being seriously hungry for more than a day or two. The most important thing is to start eating for the long term to maintain your weight loss. Years ago I lost 25 kg by dieting but put on 35 kg over about 10 years once my eating returned to "normal". What I have done differently this time is make a new "normal" for eating. Now it is normal for me to eat more fruit, veg and legumes and eat much less junk food. I'm not on a diet, so I won't go back to "normal" eating. This is "normal"! I am hoping that over the long term... 2 years, 5 years and 10 years down the track I won't have resumed my bad eating habits.

[gtfpv cycler]

i havent been keen on riding /walking ,or running daily , so have given myself 2 day breaks in between ( thats only exercising 3rd daily) after the 50km ride a few days ago , my body has been extremely hungry ,and i have been lacking energy , 2 days after that i struggled to do a 20km ride . i've now had another 2 day break and am just about to do 50kays again .
the feeling i'm getting is that my body has realised its 4 to 5 kg loss in 8 weeks , and wants to put it back on , increasing my hunger .infact over the last 2 days i wouldnt mind betting i've put weight on .

All of your physical activity is great for your health. Being hungry is lousy though. There are two theories about why you get hungry after losing some weight: weight set point theory and leptin threshold. Both theories are that you can't lose weight beyond a pre-determined level. Personally, I think that both theories are rubbish. I have found that if I ride the hunger out then I stop being hungry at my new weight. I have dropped from 110kg+ to 93kg without being seriously hungry for more than a day or two. The most important thing is to start eating for the long term to maintain your weight loss. Years ago I lost 25 kg by dieting but put on 35 kg over about 10 years once my eating returned to "normal". What I have done differently this time is make a new "normal" for eating. Now it is normal for me to eat more fruit, veg and legumes and eat much less junk food. I'm not on a diet, so I won't go back to "normal" eating. This is "normal"! I am hoping that over the long term... 2 years, 5 years and 10 years down the track I won't have resumed my bad eating habits.

makes perfect sense . my normal eating was pathetic , it consisted of a cuppaccino and cake , diet coke all day ,followed by nothing till dinner time , then chokky bikkies and a few beers .
now its 2 bowls of breakfast ceriel , or 4 slices of toast with vegemite, followed by water yoghurt, and fruit for morning tea, a salad or meal for lunch , 2 chokky bickies in the arvo , then a normal dinner . i drink about 2 litres of water + very mild cordial throughout the day . after dinner i dont eat , till breakfast the next day .
this is hard to stick to. sometimes i try small snacks every 2 hours , but find myself having more in between , which can make it hourly .
gone from eating little with no appetite , and drinking only about 2 glasses of diet coke per day ( 500ml) to a raging hunger and decent thirst due to exrciseing . in the past i would diet without exercising much , and the hunger was bearable . this time i'm exercising heaps , and have to eat and drink .

[casual_cyclist]

Following on from my post above about "bad" eating habits and continuing my research into cardiovascular disease (CVD) risk factors, I have found an interesting article: Effect of potentially modifiable risk factors associated with myocardial infarction in 52 countries (the INTERHEART study): case-control study http://ftp.utalca.cl/profesores/gicaza/ ... 202004.pdf

The study identifies 9 risk factors for CVD: smoking, raised ApoB/ApoA1 ratio, history of hypertension, diabetes, abdominal obesity, psychosocial factors, lack of daily consumption of fruits and vegetables, regular [moderate] alcohol consumption, and [lack of] regular physical activity.

It's hard to summarise the results, so I'll quote from the write up:

After multivariate analysis, current smoking and raised ApoB/ApoA1 ratio (top vs lowest quintile) were the two strongest risk factors, followed by history of diabetes, hypertension, and psychosocial factors. Body-mass index was related to risk of myocardial infarction, but this relation was weaker than that of abdominal obesity (waist/hip ratio), with body-mass index becoming non-significant with the inclusion of waist/hip ratio in the multivariate model (data not shown). Before multivariate adjustment, abdominal obesity (top vs lowest tertile) doubled the risk of acute myocardial infarction, but the effects were substantially diminished after adjustment for other risk factors, especially apolipoproteins. Daily consumption of fruits or vegetables, moderate or strenuous physical exercise, and consumption of alcohol three or more times per week, were protective

Of course then there is the cumulative effect of risk factors but:

Daily consumption of fruit and vegetables and regular physical activity conferred an odds ratio of 0·60 (99% CI 0·51–0·71). Further, if an individual avoided smoking, the odds ratio would be 0·21 (0·17–0·25), suggesting that modification of these aspects of lifestyle could potentially reduce the risk of an acute myocardial infarction by more than three-quarters compared with a smoker with a poor lifestyle.

Take home messages for me is to make sure I keep my cholesterol low, continue daily physical activity, daily fruit and veg and keeping an eye on abdominal fat.

My biggest "to work on" is "psychosocial factors" (depression, locus of control, perceived stress, and life events) which are a bigger risk factor than abdominal obesity and keeping my blood pressure under control. Easier said than done!

[gtfpv cycler]

crikey i havent weighed in this week . i've done a 60km ride today . in 6 days i've done 162.5kms of riding .
i've received the dreaded , your looking too thin , your face is drawn , and your clothes are falling off you , from the wife , and i'm still in the overweight BMI catagory about 28
wife says she doesnt want to be fatter than me !!! and i'd better start bulking up on the top half ,
i'm shocked i need to lose about 8 more kg before i slide into the normal weight range .
i didn't knw what to say so i lifted my shirt and grabbed my belly , and said how can that be thin .
i really have to think about how i handle this . i might do some upper body weight training tomorrow night , with a friend

[Comedian]

crikey i havent weighed in this week . i've done a 60km ride today . in 6 days i've done 162.5kms of riding .
i've received the dreaded , your looking too thin , your face is drawn , and your clothes are falling off you , from the wife , and i'm still in the overweight BMI catagory about 28
wife says she doesnt want to be fatter than me !!! and i'd better start bulking up on the top half ,
i'm shocked i need to lose about 8 more kg before i slide into the normal weight range .
i didn't knw what to say so i lifted my shirt and grabbed my belly , and said how can that be thin .
i really have to think about how i handle this . i might do some upper body weight training tomorrow night , with a friend

How much standing up on the bike do you do? I've been really working on standing up lots to try and build strength (and because all those cool guys on the SBS cycling documentaries do it lots). As as result, the manboobs are out, pecs in and Mrs Comedian can't keep her hands off them.

As to the weight thing, it's a common reaction when one person in a group starts to actually achieve real weight loss. All of a sudden, everyone else looks that little bit fatter - and then aren't usually happy about it.

[gtfpv cycler]

crikey i havent weighed in this week . i've done a 60km ride today . in 6 days i've done 162.5kms of riding .
i've received the dreaded , your looking too thin , your face is drawn , and your clothes are falling off you , from the wife , and i'm still in the overweight BMI catagory about 28
wife says she doesnt want to be fatter than me !!! and i'd better start bulking up on the top half ,
i'm shocked i need to lose about 8 more kg before i slide into the normal weight range .
i didn't knw what to say so i lifted my shirt and grabbed my belly , and said how can that be thin .
i really have to think about how i handle this . i might do some upper body weight training tomorrow night , with a friend

i have a flat bar bike . i've noticed i stand a lot on the up hills naturally . i've seen drop bar riders go up hills sitting down . for me to sit down up hills i have to drop back quite a few gears . and i only do that when i'm worn out . my seat is level with my handle bars .

[Comedian]

crikey i havent weighed in this week . i've done a 60km ride today . in 6 days i've done 162.5kms of riding .
i've received the dreaded , your looking too thin , your face is drawn , and your clothes are falling off you , from the wife , and i'm still in the overweight BMI catagory about 28
wife says she doesnt want to be fatter than me !!! and i'd better start bulking up on the top half ,
i'm shocked i need to lose about 8 more kg before i slide into the normal weight range .
i didn't knw what to say so i lifted my shirt and grabbed my belly , and said how can that be thin .
i really have to think about how i handle this . i might do some upper body weight training tomorrow night , with a friend

i have a flat bar bike . i've noticed i stand a lot on the up hills naturally . i've seen drop bar riders go up hills sitting down . for me to sit down up hills i have to drop back quite a few gears . and i only do that when i'm worn out . my seat is level with my handle bars .

Hmmmm... well you haven't been doing it for that long... see how you go with it.

[philip]

My BMI is around 20 and my girlfriend is often nagging me to put on a bit of weight. I haven't got a good comeback other than "but I need to be first up the hills" which doesn't impress her one bit

I wonder what the average BMI of pro cyclists is.

[gtfpv cycler]

My BMI is around 20 and my girlfriend is often nagging me to put on a bit of weight. I haven't got a good comeback other than "but I need to be first up the hills" which doesn't impress her one bit

I wonder what the average BMI of pro cyclists is.

he he !