Cornering
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Cornering
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:42 pm
This is typical of the bunches going round the long descending right hand sweeper:
http://www.erniesmithphoto.com.au/815A% ... 25_thm.htm
I'm amazed at how high a percentage of riders are not in the drops but on the hoods with hands wrapped around brakes on the widest race circuit in the country. It's the same in many pictures.
How do people expect to go round corners properly like that?
Hands on the drops peeps - it is far safer and faster way to ride when racing around corners. If you can't ride in the drops, then your bike is not set up properly.
People heads are tilted over too (along the line of the bike's tilt), which does not help maintain good cornering technique. Head should not be tilted but eyes kept in a horizontal plane. Bit like this guy on the front:
http://www.erniesmithphoto.com.au/815A% ... 39_thm.htm
or perhaps this good looking gent:
http://www.erniesmithphoto.com.au/815A% ... 01_thm.htm
Are you cornering like that?
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Re: Cornering
Postby toolonglegs » Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:23 pm
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Re: Cornering
Postby foo on patrol » Tue Apr 19, 2011 5:25 am
I do agree however with the head positioning, just like riding a motorbike and watching motorbike racing on TV with the on board camera shots.
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Re: Cornering
Postby mianos » Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:15 am
The SUVelo guy looks cool all over, but I'm probably biased.
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Re: Cornering
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:51 am
That is B grade racing. They are not cruising in that shot.mianos wrote:Looks like a cruising E grade crowd in the first shot.
Have a look at all the other shots. Lots and lots of examples as I said, even in the A grade. I had guys in A grade using their brakes for that corner with nobody in front of them!
If you are cruising in a race, then you're in the wrong grade. If you are A grade and cruising, then good luck to you!
Well this guy looks like he could use a bit of helpmianos wrote:The SUVelo guy looks cool all over, but I'm probably biased.
http://www.erniesmithphoto.com.au/815A% ... 05_thm.htm
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Re: Cornering
Postby scotto » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:04 am
the previous and following pics show the right way !
http://www.erniesmithphoto.com.au/815A% ... 17_thm.htm
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Re: Cornering
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:45 pm
Yes, and for the observant ones amongst you, if you check the look on my face, and the state of my rear tyre, you might realise why I wasn't going fast around the corner.scotto wrote:this guys cornering on the hoods too !!!!!
the previous and following pics show the right way !
http://www.erniesmithphoto.com.au/815A% ... 17_thm.htm
And is why my rear wheel was changed as per this photo a bit later in the race:
http://www.erniesmithphoto.com.au/815A% ... 22_thm.htm
which is me off on another solo in front of the A grade bunch.
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Re: Cornering
Postby scotto » Tue Apr 19, 2011 4:15 pm
i just thought you were putting on a cadel evans type smile
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Re: Cornering
Postby DanielS » Tue Apr 19, 2011 10:31 pm
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Re: Cornering
Postby mikesbytes » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:54 pm
Chris Green looks correct. Hard to tell from a single photo, but he appears to have come out wide so he can maintain momentum, where those up front are using their bodies as parachutesAlex Simmons/RST wrote:This is typical of the bunches going round the long descending right hand sweeper:
http://www.erniesmithphoto.com.au/815A% ... 25_thm.htm
Ridiculous isn't itAlex Simmons/RST wrote:I'm amazed at how high a percentage of riders are not in the drops but on the hoods with hands wrapped around brakes on the widest race circuit in the country. It's the same in many pictures.
Absolutely, hands in drops. I suspect with many the issue is their body - flexibility, lack of core or upper body strength.Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Hands on the drops peeps - it is far safer and faster way to ride when racing around corners. If you can't ride in the drops, then your bike is not set up properly.
Can you explain the head position a bit moreAlex Simmons/RST wrote:People heads are tilted over too (along the line of the bike's tilt), which does not help maintain good cornering technique. Head should not be tilted but eyes kept in a horizontal plane. Bit like this guy on the front:
http://www.erniesmithphoto.com.au/815A% ... 39_thm.htm
Valid question, apart from the obvious of using the drops, how do you know about the rest. Photos will help I guessAlex Simmons/RST wrote:Are you cornering like that?
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Re: Cornering
Postby waynohh » Wed Apr 20, 2011 8:50 am
I suspect LBS have just pushed huge quantities of TCR's, etc instead of Defy's, etc to every newbie out there and now people can get them cheaper.mikesbytes wrote:I suspect with many the issue is their body - flexibility, lack of core or upper body strength.
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Re: Cornering
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Apr 20, 2011 9:55 am
mikesbytes wrote:Can you explain the head position a bit more
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Re: Cornering
Postby sogood » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:19 am
But, give those Waratah riders a break. Their cervical spondylosis probably restricted their head tilt or they'll get a VBI (Vertebrobasilar insufficiency) and black out in mid-corner. It'll cause some serious problems for the bunch.
At least most of them have their outer leg extended.
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Re: Cornering
Postby open roader » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:10 pm
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Re: Cornering
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:38 pm
Well I nearly posted a pic of motorcyclists as they definitely learn this technique (I did when I used to ride motorbikes) and as you say it really is directly transferable to cycling, it helps to show it with people on bikes though.open roader wrote:Boy do I appreciate (surviving) a few years of club racing with road motorcycles, just about every cornering technique I learnt there applies to getting a pushie around a corner swiftly and safely.
It's really important to keep the eyes in horizontal plane, as our senses work best that way. Like a gun turret on a modern tank.
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Re: Cornering
Postby open roader » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:45 pm
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Re: Cornering
Postby aeroslave » Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:06 pm
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Re: Cornering
Postby eeksll » Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:30 pm
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Re: Cornering
Postby open roader » Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:32 pm
I reckon you have a lower centre of gravity, thus you remain more stable through the corner when the bike is leaned over and your bodyweight is not evenly centred over the frame as when you are riding in a straight line and can more easily achive a managable balance.eeksll wrote:noob question obviously, why is cornering on the drops the way to go?
You also get better leverage down in the drops, requiring less input to make fine corrections when adjusting your line as you corner.
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Re: Cornering
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Apr 20, 2011 3:56 pm
You have more control over your bicycle in the drops*, and it is safer with hands well wrapped around the bars. In tight situations, you'll want all the fine motor control at your disposal.eeksll wrote:noob question obviously, why is cornering on the drops the way to go?
same applies to descending - hand on drops is significantly better and safer.
* If you don't, then your bike set up is wrong.
That applies to brake levers that are hard to reach from the drops - if so, then they are set up wrong or you have the wrong handlebars or wrong type of brakes for your hands.
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Re: Cornering
Postby eeksll » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:18 pm
I had a thread a while ago asking for tips on descending in the drops for the reasons you stated
- feels like my hands are going to slip off over the hoods
- less hand fatigue while braking and more powerful braking
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Re: Cornering
Postby open roader » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:47 pm
Gripping the drops also maximises your leverage on the bars. You need leverage in order to counter steer the front wheel through the corner. When you take a corner at speed (decending), the front wheel can be used to slightly 'counter steer' i.e. be levered via the handlebars just a slight amount of pressure in the opposite direction to which you wish to turn.
This has the effect of pulling the bike into a tighter line around the inside of the corner and can be used to hit the apex of the corner before using momentum to roll away from the apex and turn out of the corner. So if you are rolling fast through a left direction corner you can counter steer a tad to the right to make the bike tighten it's line into the corner. Gripping the drops gives you maximum leverage thus least amount of effort required to trim your line through the corner. Holding the drops allows for maximum dexterity so you don't have to make jerky, forceful adjustments via the hoods which are more likely to upset the line of the bike and mess up the line you wish to take through the corner.
Another damn good reason for cornering at speed on the drops is the fact that you want both brake levers covered easily and fast in case you have to make a minor speed correction or an emergency stop God forbid..........
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Re: Cornering
Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Apr 20, 2011 4:58 pm
Lower center of gravity, better leverage and fine motor control.eeksll wrote:thanks. What is the reason that there is better control from the drops? I find the opposite.
If your control in the drops is not so good, then it sounds to me like the drops are too low or far away for you or possibly too wide. I think some have their hood height/reach near where the drops should be, possibly for reasons of vanity as they want their bike to look like a Pro's bike with a large drop in height from saddle to bars, even though that might be completely inappropriate for them at this stage of their riding and/or morphology.
Shape of the drops has a large impact on body position when you move from hoods to drops. Some handlebars shapes (e.g. round v "anatomic") are not suitable for some.
Like I said - it's a bike set up thing.
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Re: Cornering
Postby eeksll » Wed Apr 20, 2011 10:32 pm
oh well, Ill just keep trying.
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