Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby Chuck » Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:29 am

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:I also think having people who were dopers still involved in influencing the sport and the newer riders coming through via directing, managing, coaching, medical assistance etc is completely wrong.

Wrong role models, poor choices, poor advice.


Perhaps they're listening Alex....

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/uci-for ... -positions

"the ability to act on the riders' entourage, particularly the younger members"

"All we're trying to do is break the cycle so that the doping influence is less involved in the sport and that the managers are a group who have the highest ethics as cyclists and continue to have the highest ethics as management.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby MichaelB » Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:50 am

Whilst Ricco has not been proven guilty :roll: , he is still obviously in a world of his own, as the latest claims are now that it was only due to a temperature when he got back from a training ride, and that "2 days later he woke up in intensive care "...

Yeah right ... :|
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:44 pm

Steroid use and distribution to young riders:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/police- ... in-belgium

While it's mostly pros reported here for doping:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/doping- ... in-andorra
I noted this comment:
"Another 30 riders took the drugs to help boost their performances in amateur events such as gran fondos."
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby philip » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:17 pm

I have no idea how serious these Gran Fondo's are, seems to me that some are taking them pretty seriously, this only made me laugh:

According to one of the event organisers who did not wish to be identified, Riccò joined the 163km Gran Fondo Prologo-Giovanni Lombardi after 10km, appearing from behind a house. He then helped his friends by working to close the gap on a group of breakaway riders.


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ricco-sneaks-into-italian-sportif-ride

Edit: just reread what I wrote and it might not be clear - I didn't mean to say that because they might not be "pro" or "serious" events that cheating was ok, I meant that I didn't know what sort of repercussions would be dealt out because of the cheating. Obviously cheating is wrong at all levels.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby jules21 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:28 pm

the real problem is that ricco is one of those guys who doesn't know any other way but to cheat and break the rules.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby brentono » Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:13 pm

Gran Fondo's think fun-run :wink:
(more media sensationalization... :roll: )
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Wed Jun 22, 2011 7:45 pm

brentono wrote:Gran Fondo's think fun-run :wink:
(more media sensationalization... :roll: )
:mrgreen:

perhaps, although the UCI is handing out a world champion's jersey to the winner of their granfondo series this year.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby jules21 » Wed Jun 22, 2011 9:04 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:perhaps, although the UCI is handing out a world champion's jersey to the winner of their granfondo series this year.

lol, it must be an honour wearing the rings, along with the 100s of others who turn up in them :D
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby MichaelB » Thu Jun 23, 2011 9:17 am

philip wrote:

According to one of the event organisers who did not wish to be identified, Riccò joined the 163km Gran Fondo Prologo-Giovanni Lombardi after 10km, appearing from behind a house. He then helped his friends by working to close the gap on a group of breakaway riders.


http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ricco-sneaks-into-italian-sportif-ride

.


He just has no idea does he :roll:

Apparently a whole load of other competitors asked him to leave as well - REALLY popular ....
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby brentono » Thu Jun 23, 2011 11:10 am

jules21 wrote:
Alex Simmons/RST wrote:perhaps, although the UCI is handing out a world champion's jersey to the winner of their granfondo series this year.

lol, it must be an honour wearing the rings, along with the 100s of others who turn up in them :D


+1 :lol:
What Is A Gran Fondo Anyway?

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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby brentono » Thu Jun 23, 2011 4:06 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:Amateur NRS racing in Australia:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cornish ... nandrolone


A sad situation, he may have just been a Tri-baby, and that's it. :|
You don't need to dope, to do well in Australia Cycling, just hard training. :wink:
That's the end of his Coaching career. :(
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby philip » Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:52 pm


thanks - that makes it even funnier - the imagery of Ricco riding out from "behind a house" to help his "mates" (where'd he get them from?) for that kind of event is both funny and incredibly sad. What a knob.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby igstar » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:48 am

There is an interesting read in Melbourne's Age about blood passports for cyclists http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cycling/cycling-union-testing-blood-samples-20110624-1gi3t.html. Nothing really new but I wonder how many sports in the world come under as much scrutiny. Take for example AFL's 3-strike policy...
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby hannos » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:29 am

igstar wrote:There is an interesting read in Melbourne's Age about blood passports for cyclists http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cycling/cycling-union-testing-blood-samples-20110624-1gi3t.html. Nothing really new but I wonder how many sports in the world come under as much scrutiny. Take for example AFL's 3-strike policy...


The policy where they are effectively anonymous until the third strike?
Whereas in cycling, the moment there's a suspicion they're named.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby JV911 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:39 am

http://velonews.competitor.com/2011/06/ ... ost-viewed

The UCI issued a warning Thursday advising teams and riders that several blood samples are undergoing expert scrutiny in advance of the Tour de France to determine whether blood doping or other forms of manipulation have taken place.

Using its Biological Passport program, the UCI has snared several top professionals despite the fact they had not tested positive for banned substances.

UCI doctor Mario Zorzoli suggested on Thursday that more positive cases could follow after a decision to probe several samples was taken in the wake of a meeting with World Anti-Doping Agency officials in February.

“We can see for example a change in the value of certain parameters, which are completely different in 2010 to what they were in 2008 or 2009,” Zorzoli said at a French National Anti-Doping Agency (AFLD) conference. “Obviously that leads us to suppose that some kind of manipulation has taken place.”
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby brentono » Mon Jun 27, 2011 12:42 pm

igstar wrote:Nothing really new but I wonder how many sports in the world come under as much scrutiny.
Take for example AFL's 3-strike policy...


On that note, the whole media, National Football Federation, and FIFA reaction regarding
The five Mexican footballers who were suspended from the Gold Cup last month. :o

The five Mexican footballers who were suspended from the Gold Cup earlier this month,
are not the only players to have tested positive for the banned substance clenbuterol,
according to FIFA president Sepp Blatter.

The players claim that the positive test was caused by contaminated meat
and Blatter appears to hold the view that they ingested the drug by accident.

“It was a surprise but when we received the documents,
and especially after we had spoken to our medical supervisor,
we noticed that there were five players in an awkward position,” Blatter said.

“But traces of the product have also shown up in the systems
of some of the other players in the team.

“It is without doubt in the food and we are talking here about meat.
The Mexican football federation is going to take all necessary measures
and we (FIFA) are ready to lend a hand
.”

Blatter blames meat for Mexican dope tests

Certainly a different tack, than that would be taken in any Clenbuterol case in Cycling. :roll:
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby jules21 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:22 pm

brentono wrote:“But traces of the product have also shown up in the systems of some of the other players in the team."

this is Dertie's problem:
- none of his teammates tested positive to tainted meat - we are to believe he ate a 'special' meal.
- meat quality controls in western europe are far stricter than in south america - the odds of eating tainted meat are much lower.

igstar wrote:There is an interesting read in Melbourne's Age about blood passports for cyclists http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cycling/cycling-union-testing-blood-samples-20110624-1gi3t.html. Nothing really new but I wonder how many sports in the world come under as much scrutiny. Take for example AFL's 3-strike policy...

that only applies to recreational drugs. there is no 3 strikes in AFL for performance enhancing drugs.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:04 pm

brentono wrote:Certainly a different tack, than that would be taken in any Clenbuterol case in Cycling. :roll: :mrgreen:

Well I hope WADA come up with a sensible solution. It's presently under review.

Whether or not the football cases are accidental or otherwise I have no idea but the use of clenbuterol in the largely unregulated cattle industry in Mexico and some other countries is widespread. The risk of unintended CB ingestion is significant there (but much less so in Europe). It is also compounded by the fact that CB only lasts in the system for maybe a week at most after therapeutic dose has ceased. So small amounts could easily be either from doping or unintended contamination through eating CB beef in the previous few days.

A large group of players in a team being positive (there are unconfirmed reports that many more on the team also tested positive) is either contaminated beef on the menu (assuming they have been dining together, which in the days leading up to a tournament is certainly plausible) or indicative of systemic doping.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby brentono » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:45 pm

jules21 wrote:- meat quality controls in western europe are far stricter than in south america -
the odds of eating tainted meat are much lower.


It was nothing to do with Contador's situation, in my point , it was the more balanced
approach by media, National Football Federation, and FIFA.
I'm not even going to get into a debate with you, when you wish to completely ignore
the fact, that a large amount of Mercosur product (Beef) from South America is imported
into the E.U. (a FACT you and others wish to ignore)
Think what you will. :lol:
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby brentono » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:51 pm

Alex Simmons/RST wrote:
brentono wrote:Certainly a different tack, than that would be taken in any Clenbuterol case in Cycling. :roll: :mrgreen:

Well I hope WADA come up with a sensible solution. It's presently under review.



I agree, and the only sensible approach will be a threshold limit (as I pointed out from the onset)
I would be concerned that it will take so much bureaucratic bumbling, before any decision can be made,
that many sportspeople will be adversely affected by the present position
on Clenbuterol (and possibly other substances)
:mrgreen:
Last edited by brentono on Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby jules21 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:51 pm

brentono wrote:I'm not even going to get into a debate with you, when you wish to completely ignore the fact, that a large amount of Mercosur product (Beef) from South America is imported into the E.U. (a FACT you and others wish to ignore)

any meat that is sold in the EU is subject to the EU's standards. imported meat will be subjected to those standards, the same as locally processed meat.

it's therefore likely that south american meat exporters would not dose export meat with clenbuterol, that they would for sale in south america.

i've previously explained that to you. it's you who is ignoring the facts, here :)
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby brentono » Mon Jun 27, 2011 3:59 pm

jules21 wrote:
brentono wrote:I'm not even going to get into a debate with you, when you wish to completely ignore the fact, that a large amount of Mercosur product (Beef) from South America is imported into the E.U. (a FACT you and others wish to ignore)

any meat that is sold in the EU is subject to the EU's standards. imported meat will be subjected to those standards, the same as locally processed meat.

it's therefore likely that south american meat exporters would not dose export meat with clenbuterol, that they would for sale in south america.


As stated before, having been involved, not all shipments are tested or reviewed,
and many are already through the process and distributed, after detection,
from my personal experience in the process.
Analysis is only a gauge of the whole system, not a deterent
(That's what happens in Australia) FME.
I'll leave that debate there, as we seem to be at odds.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby jules21 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:08 pm

brentono wrote:As stated before, having been involved, not all shipments are tested or reviewed,

of course that's true. but that is the deterrent - an exporter would probably not want to risk their EU export license, just to squeeze in some clenbuterol. i'm sure that neither is it the case that all locally processed meat in the EU is tested.
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Re: Crapola!!!....P.E.D's in Cycling

Postby Alex Simmons/RST » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:56 pm

brentono wrote:I agree, and the only sensible approach will be a threshold limit (as I pointed out from the onset)
I would be concerned that it will take so much bureaucratic bumbling, before any decision can be made,
that many sportspeople will be adversely affected by the present position
on Clenbuterol (and possibly other substances)
:mrgreen:

Well when a prohibited substance detected can be result of either doping or inadvertent ingestion from the regular food supply, and the threshold might be passed or failed simply due to the # of days since ingestion, then you can't blame them for taking some time to work out a reasonable solution.

Some science no doubt would help and I trust they are getting good advice in that respect.

In the meantime, I have told my Central American based athlete to avoid eating local beef and eat other sources of protein.
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