Stoves and Cookwear

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Stoves and Cookwear

Postby rifraf » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:29 pm

Thought I'd get in before anyone else to request the knowledge of what everyones using to
get the billy boiled and dinner on the way.
I've been using my Optimus 111C since Christ played halfback for the Israelites and then some.
My latest move back to Aus has shown I've forgotten to pack my alternate fuel nipples
so I'll have to get onto that so I can once again start using metho in it.
Back in NZ Kero is the cheaper fuel of choice.
I do prefer the metho as it doesnt stink your pack out long term if theres a spill.
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by BNA » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:49 pm

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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby gregmacc » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:49 pm

Hi rifraf ... Trangia ... My wife and I tour with the large model and manage to include a pair of plastic bowls inside the packed kit. Lightweight and simple.
Cheers
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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby il padrone » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:01 am

Hi

For shorter tours (up to 20 days) I've been using this one. Just so easy to use and great flame control.

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(MSR Pocket Rocket)



But on my recent longer tours I have been using the Trangia again - the old one from the 1980s, dragged out of retirement :D . It goes through much more fuel, is slower to boil and you can't really toast the muffins over it, but it is a good all-round cooking package.

I have the earlier Shellite model of that stove of yours rifraf - the Optimus 8R. It's been retired for over 20 years now, but it still works and I've been threatening to resurrect it on one of my tours, for old time's sake.

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This one is much cleaner than mine
Last edited by il padrone on Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:50 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby rifraf » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:04 am

gregmacc wrote:Hi rifraf ... Trangia ... My wife and I tour with the large model and manage to include a pair of plastic bowls inside the packed kit. Lightweight and simple.
Cheers
Greg

Hi Greg,
I've been very impressed by the Trangia myself.
Very nice and easy to use bit of kit.
As there is Alzheimers in my family I've steered away from alloy cookwear
as at one stage there was a suggestion of a link between the two.
I've also heard this "theory" refuted but my paranoia had set in.
I'd happily put up with some extra weight if they would do a stainless version your
brilliant stove.
If the Optimus carked it tomorrow I might revisit considering the Trangia as coated non stick
versions are now available.
Of course we wont mention the reported dangers of teflon cookwear - lol.
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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby il padrone » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:10 am

rifraf wrote:I've also heard this "theory" refuted but my paranoia had set in.
I'd happily put up with some extra weight if they would do a stainless version your
brilliant stove.

They do - the Duossal version, alloy on the outside for lightweight and good heat transfer, SS on the inside.
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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby rifraf » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:12 am

il padrone wrote:Hi

For shorter tours (up to 20 days) I've been using this one. Just so easy to use and great flame control.


(MSR Pocket Rocket)



But on my recent longer tours I have been using the Trangia again - the old one from the 1980s, dragged out of retirement :D . It goes through much more fuel, is slower to boil and you can't really toast the muffins over it, but it is a good all-round cooking package.

One of the Optimus's failings is flame control (my one anyway), as when trying a minimal flame you are
often rewarded by spitting and farting and sometimes carboning up (poor fuel maybe?).
Where it does seem to excell is water boiling with its fast and furious very hot flame.
As a toy it really appeals to the boy in me and I rarely miss an opportunity to drag it out and make
a cuppa tea or until my recent move make a stovetop coffee. My coffee maker got left behind in the
name of excess luggage costs.
Last edited by rifraf on Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby rifraf » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:16 am

il padrone wrote:
rifraf wrote:I've also heard this "theory" refuted but my paranoia had set in.
I'd happily put up with some extra weight if they would do a stainless version your
brilliant stove.

They do - the Duossal version, alloy on the outside for lightweight and good heat transfer, SS on the inside.

This bloody forum is costing me a fortune, what with sapim spokes, dynahub lighting, trailers, gps's and now
it looks like a new stove is going to have to be looked into. If it wasnt making me so happy I'd be weeping like
my punished wallet right now.

A thread I just spotted on the Duossal:
http://bushwalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3975
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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby il padrone » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:24 am

This is the cookset I use with the Pocket Rocket - the GSI Bugaboo cookset. It has a quite durable real Teflon coat*. I pack the Pocket Rocket and other stuff (pot grippers, cig lighters, pot scourer etc) inside it, using two chux towels as packing to protect the teflon coating. It's been bounced all over Victoria and Tasmania and after about 4-5 years has only a few rubs on the teflon. Concentric rings on the pot bases mean it sits really securely on the Pocket Rocket pot supports.

Image


* I used a MSR coated cookset and the non-stick coating began to flake off after a few years. Lots of non-stick is not really good nor real Teflon.
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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby rifraf » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:44 am

il padrone wrote:This is the cookset I use with the Pocket Rocket - the GSI Bugaboo cookset. It has a quite durable real Teflon coat*. I pack the Pocket Rocket and other stuff (pot grippers, cig lighters, pot scourer etc) inside it, using two chux towels as packing to protect the teflon coating. It's been bounced all over Victoria and Tasmania and after about 4-5 years has only a few rubs on the teflon. Concentric rings on the pot bases mean it sits really securely on the Pocket Rocket pot supports.


* I used a MSR coated cookset and the non-stick coating began to flake off after a few years. Lots of non-stick is not really good nor real Teflon.

Looks very appealing and almost le creuset like.
The guests wouldnt be happy with anything less than a banquet if they noticed your gear :D
I can see I'm going to need a bigger piece of paper for my wish list.
Any particular source (not sauce) you recommend?
Last edited by rifraf on Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby Baalzamon » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:56 am

il padrone wrote:This is the cookset I use with the Pocket Rocket - the GSI Bugaboo cookset. It has a quite durable real Teflon coat*. I pack the Pocket Rocket and other stuff (pot grippers, cig lighters, pot scourer etc) inside it, using two chux towels as packing to protect the teflon coating. It's been bounced all over Victoria and Tasmania and after about 4-5 years has only a few rubs on the teflon. Concentric rings on the pot bases mean it sits really securely on the Pocket Rocket pot supports.



AH HUH, so that is why my pots felt so slippery on the MSR Pocket Rocket grr damn cheap pots, well lets see what the new pot I have ordered does. Did have stability issue, but that was more due to not a perfectly flat site and it did tip over on a section where water was fairly important
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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby rifraf » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:10 am

Baalzamon wrote:
AH HUH, so that is why my pots felt so slippery on the MSR Pocket Rocket grr damn cheap pots, well lets see what the new pot I have ordered does. Did have stability issue, but that was more due to not a perfectly flat site and it did tip over on a section where water was fairly important

You'll be wanting to get everything ready for your upcoming trip Baalzamon.
I'm looking forward to reading about it to glean some motivation and do some km's myself.
Are you enjoying your Supernova lighting and dynohub?
I'm thrilled with my edelux.
Is your MSR your cooker of choice currently?
Is it a particular gas the Pocket Rocket uses?
Any issues with temp or elevation that will affect it on your journey?
Are you making do with panniers or will you be incorporating a trailer?
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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby RonK » Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:40 am

rifraf wrote:Thought I'd get in before anyone else to request the knowledge of what everyones using to
get the billy boiled and dinner on the way.


Jeez - do you guys never sleep. I turn my back to watch the TDF for a few hours and an entire new thread is created. Hehe - looking at that stove rifraf, it's no wonder you need a 90L rucksack.

Stoves! Now you are getting on to one of my favourite subjects. I have assembled a collection of stoves (and pots) in my quest for the perfect stove since I started out with an MSR Whisperlite and a set of MSR Blackstone pots. This gear got quite a lot of use, but I didn't like it that much, I found the Whisperlite dangerous to use anywhere near a tent, and impossible to regulate to a simmer. And it didn't seem all that long before the coating started to peel off the pots. I later added an MSR Dragonfly to the collection - it's a much better stove with good flame control, but expensive, heavy and very noisy.

I decided these stoves were inconvenient to carry on through walks, so acquired an MSR Pocket Rocket and a Snowpeak titanium cookset, which I used for several crossings of the Overland Track and other walks in Tasmania. The Pocket Rocket weighs almost nothing, and I still sometimes carry it as a backup stove today. I was impressed enough with the Snowpeak cookset to expand my collection with several larger pots. All nestle together like Russian dolls. But the Pocket Rocket does not work well in cold weather and, I didn't like the idea of perching large pots so high on a relatively unstable platform. I resolved both these issues with a Snowpeak BF stove (now superceded) that has the gas canister attached via a hose. The pot stand is lower and more stable, and the gas canister can be inverted for reliable operation in cold weather. It is however, heavier than the Pocket Rocket.

In more recent years I've become concerned that distributing gas in non-reusable canisters is ecologically inappropriate. My current favourite is a metho stove. I've always liked the concept, but have never been a fan of the Trangia - they have alway seemed excessively bulky, and I'm biased against aluminium cookware. Since I have become to prefer titanium cookware, I sourced a complete combo of Clickstand stove and cookware, all in titanium, that combines minimal bulk with negligible weight. The Evernew burner is like a flamethrower once it gets going - easily the equal of the Pocker Rocket. To tame it I've added an adjustable simmer ring to the burner, and I also carry a lightweight aluminium heat diffuser. A Sea to Summit X bowl, plate and mug set and some Lexan utensils completes my kitchenware. The X-set packs down to only 15mm thickness and fits nicely into the internal mesh pocket of my front pannier.

Image
Image
All the components that you see in the picture fit in the 900ml pot, with room for fire steel, small sponge/scourer pad and a couple of Chux to dampen any rattles.

As always, it's horses for courses, and I'll choose a stove and pots from my collection according to the type of trip I'm doing, but for cycle touring it's the Clickstand. The tiny combo takes up only one corner in the bottom of my Ortlieb Classic Plus front pannier.

A word of caution however - you should select cookware based on you cooking style. I'm more of the heat and serve type, and rarely attempt any serious cooking in my pots. The titanium pots work well for this style of cooking, but if you consider yourself the master chef of the bush you may prefer a heavier-walled pot for better heat diffusion.
Last edited by RonK on Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:42 pm, edited 32 times in total.
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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby Warnesy » Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:45 am

I've used the Trangia quite a bit and really like using it. The best thing I ever did was get a gas conversion for the trangia, almost 10 years ago now. So much easier than metho, no mess, can control the flame to get a simmer much more easily.
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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby gregmacc » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:14 pm

Trangia ... Yes, the alloy only model is a worry - Our's is stainless steel lined ... Bulky? ... Only an issue if you don't pack well - We manage to include X2 plastic bowls, matches, a tea towel and a small container of dishwashing liquid inside the standard Trangia packing arrangement. ... Slow? - Who said it was a race? (honestly, we have never found ourselves anxiously waiting for the porridge to cook or the water to boil). Sure, it would take a while to fry a steak, but that's what pubs and restaurants are for. They won't work with a stove-top espresso. That's why we use the Ortlieb drip filter holder - No bulk/weight. Just get the grind right (at home, pre tour) and bingo ... fantastic brew ...
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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby il padrone » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:31 pm

gregmacc wrote:They won't work with a stove-top espresso. That's why we use the Ortlieb drip filter holder - No bulk/weight. Just get the grind right (at home, pre tour) and bingo ... fantastic brew ...

Now that is cool! Have not heard of this before 8)

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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby gregmacc » Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:50 pm

Yes il padrone ... the secret is getting the grind right ... which for us is the same grind that we use at home for our Bodum french press ... easy ... - No extra bulk or weight, just pack enough standard paper filters for the trip and you're laughing ... wouldn't leave home without it.
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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby Aushiker » Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:51 pm

Hi

I have a MSR Super Fly which I have had for years and haven't bothered to "update" as it still works fine for me. I use a AntiGravity Gear two cup aluminium pot with it (don't think they are made anymore) and a windshield I picked up from Ranger Camping. Really needs updating/lightening now.

I also have a Trangia but haven't used that in years. I did try painting the pots with Pot Belly black to improve heating but it didn't really help. I just find them to slow and inefficient to justify.

There are some interesting concepts around such as the one RonK mentioned, the good old Pepsi can stove and on it goes.

Roger Caffin seems to be a fan of the gas stoves but. To quote him ...

For a short trip of 5 nights the lightest stove path (so far) is a small cheap gas stove. It can also be nearly the cheapest: just slightly dearer than the fabled Pepsi Stove. The petrol and kero stoves seem to be both heavier and dearer than most of the rest. But for a longer trip of 14 nights the alcohol stoves are at the heavy end of the weight range. Why is this so? Because the fuel is so very inefficient and heavy. Reducing the weight of the stove to zero cannot overcome the fuel weight penalty.

I have to add that small wood-burning stoves will turn out very light on long trips, as long as you can find fuel and it is safe to light a fire. Coming close behind that would be the solid fuel method: Esbit or Hexamine tablets. Some through-hikers on American trails use these as they can get the fuel in many places or post the fuel to the regular small town post offices along the way. However, neither of these are as convenient; neither is really safe to use in a tent, both make the pot dirty and neither is all that great in the snow.

One could add that the gas stoves are incredibly easy and convenient to operate (which contributes to the small amount of fuel they need), while the alcohol stoves seem very tricky and of such limited functionality. The petrol and kero stoves remain heavy and expensive, but the incremental cost of fuel is low. In some places like Nepal kero is the only fuel available of course. The hexamine stoves are very small and light, but are not very convenient to use, and the cost starts to rise very fast over time. I have seen very variable test results for just how hot one tablet can heat some water: certainly you must use a windscreen with them.

Which stove you pick is up to you. You could do what some of us have done: buy one of each and run your own tests! If you do, I would love to hear the results. The Pepsi Stove family is very cute, but they certainly are not the best ultra-lightweight solution for trips of any length unless you can buy small quantities of metho along the way.


Thanks for posting but as you have now got me thinking about updating my cooking setup as well :)

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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby il padrone » Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:01 pm

Aushiker wrote:Roger Caffin seems to be a fan of the gas stoves but. To quote him ...

For a short trip of 5 nights the lightest stove path (so far) is a small cheap gas stove. It can also be nearly the cheapest: just slightly dearer than the fabled Pepsi Stove. The petrol and kero stoves seem to be both heavier and dearer than most of the rest. But for a longer trip of 14 nights the alcohol stoves are at the heavy end of the weight range. Why is this so? Because the fuel is so very inefficient and heavy. Reducing the weight of the stove to zero cannot overcome the fuel weight penalty.


I'd disagree with that. Their value really depends on what and where you're using them. For most cycling tours a trip of more than 14 days is bound to take you through settled districts and fuel is less of a problem, because it's available just about anywhere.

We used the Trangias solely for our 63 days from Melbourne to Oodnadatta and beyond. No problems with fuel supplies.
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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby Aushiker » Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:18 pm

il padrone wrote:I'd disagree with that. Their value really depends on what and where you're using them. For most cycling tours a trip of more than 14 days is bound to take you through settled districts and fuel is less of a problem, because it's available just about anywhere.


Yep which is why Roger said ...

But for a longer trip of 14 nights the alcohol stoves are at the heavy end of the weight range. Why is this so? Because the fuel is so very inefficient and heavy. Reducing the weight of the stove to zero cannot overcome the fuel weight penalty....

Which stove you pick is up to you. You could do what some of us have done: buy one of each and run your own tests! If you do, I would love to hear the results. The Pepsi Stove family is very cute, but they certainly are not the best ultra-lightweight solution for trips of any length unless you can buy small quantities of metho along the way.
[my emphasis]

Please note carefully the word "of" and the closing paragraph from the quote .... :)

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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby Baldy » Sun Jul 17, 2011 6:54 pm

I use a large Trangia. Some would call it overkill for one person but I dont mind it. It does a few jobs, I got the full kit with the kettle so that makes a cuppa easy[I only drink tea] 2 Bowls for heating/cooking and eating out of... Plus the pan as a plate. I have cooked flathead fillets and snags in the pan which were nice. Boiled some mussels in a bowl that even Bear Grylls would not eat :lol:

But I mostly just reheat stuff and boil water. I think mine is the ultralight model.
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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby rifraf » Sun Jul 17, 2011 9:33 pm

Baldy wrote:I use a large Trangia. Some would call it overkill for one person but I dont mind it. It does a few jobs, I got the full kit with the kettle so that makes a cuppa easy[I only drink tea] 2 Bowls for heating/cooking and eating out of... Plus the pan as a plate. I have cooked flathead fillets and snags in the pan which were nice. Boiled some mussels in a bowl that even Bear Grylls would not eat :lol:

But I mostly just reheat stuff and boil water. I think mine is the ultralight model.


The consensus does appear to favour the alcohol cookers and Trangia in particular.
I think I've just found what appears to be a stainless copy from a firm named Tatonka
http://intranet.tatonka.com/infosys/inf ... Cookwear&0
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Tatonka-Mult ... 4aac6835ac
(sorry mods I haven't mastered shortening the links yet)
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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby rifraf » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:11 pm

Warnesy wrote:I've used the Trangia quite a bit and really like using it. The best thing I ever did was get a gas conversion for the trangia, almost 10 years ago now. So much easier than metho, no mess, can control the flame to get a simmer much more easily.

Hi Warnesy,
funny you should mention conversions as I spotted an Optimus/Trangia conversion on fleabay last night
allowing you to add an Optimus liquid fuel burner to the Trangia kit.
Lately it seems I'm never shy of food for thought.
I was more intrigued than anything else.
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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby rifraf » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:17 pm

gregmacc wrote:Trangia ... Yes, the alloy only model is a worry - Our's is stainless steel lined ... Bulky? ... Only an issue if you don't pack well - We manage to include X2 plastic bowls, matches, a tea towel and a small container of dishwashing liquid inside the standard Trangia packing arrangement. ... Slow? - Who said it was a race? (honestly, we have never found ourselves anxiously waiting for the porridge to cook or the water to boil). Sure, it would take a while to fry a steak, but that's what pubs and restaurants are for. They won't work with a stove-top espresso. That's why we use the Ortlieb drip filter holder - No bulk/weight. Just get the grind right (at home, pre tour) and bingo ... fantastic brew ...


Hi Gregmacc,
that sounds like the Duossal version Il Padrone was talking about in a post above.
They appear out of production from my cursory search and not so readily available.
It would appear waiting for an old stock or used on ebay would be the go.
(Now watch someone prove me wrong....)
Definitely on my consideration list.
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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby il padrone » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:21 pm

Trangia now have their hard-anodised version that has superceded the duossal.

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Re: Stoves and Cookwear

Postby rifraf » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:30 pm

RonK wrote:Jeez - do you guys never sleep. I turn my back to watch the TDF for a few hours and an entire new thread is created. Hehe - looking at that stove rifraf, it's no wonder you need a 90L rucksack.

Stoves! Now you are getting on to one of my favourite subjects. for cycle touring it's the Clickstand. The tiny combo takes up only one corner in the bottom of my Ortlieb Classic Plus front pannier.


Hi Ronk,
Sleep? With all the new posts and threads to read here on the forum?

No one ever suggested the Optimus was small or light.
Hard to beat though for its pack away quickly ability (dirty or clean) and its
ferocious ability to quickly boil water for a much needed cuppa after some slog.
I've worked it hard and its in need of some refurbishment which makes
me consider revisiting some other options.
Did you obtain the Clickstand via that link you kindly left us or did you find it local?
I'm keeping my options open but am inclined to look to an alternative to cooking
on an alloy surface for real or imagined reasons.
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