speed difference flat bar roadie to roadie

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Re: speed difference flat bar roadie to roadie

Postby wombatK » Tue Aug 16, 2011 11:04 am

What tyres has your bike got ? If you're running something with pressures less than 100 psi, and with a significant tread (i.e. not very slick), you could have 10% or more to gain just by upgrading the tyres. The lower rolling resistance of the high pressure slick tyres on your average road bike is where most of the gain comes from. At higher speeds (> 25 kph), wind resistance from a non-aero position would cost you a bit - but not as much as the tyres.

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by BNA » Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:40 pm

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Re: speed difference flat bar roadie to roadie

Postby gtrainer » Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:40 pm

25mm tires, slicks, virtually no tread, inflated to 100psi atm

I noticed this morning, that into the head wind the wind resistance was massive, wasnt a huge headwind, but downwind flat section was doing 35kmph easy, and headwind felt like i was a sail, really pushing 22kmph, same section of the ride.

Im getting the feeling that 23mm tires, lighter bike, proper shoes and pedals, better drop bar areodynamic riding position, fitter and personally lighter weight, I recon I should be right to avergae about 30kmph soon....

well at least im hoping so.....
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Re: speed difference flat bar roadie to roadie

Postby wombatK » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:06 pm

gtrainer wrote:Im getting the feeling that 23mm tires, lighter bike, proper shoes and pedals, better drop bar areodynamic riding position, fitter and personally lighter weight, I recon I should be right to avergae about 30kmph soon....

well at least im hoping so.....

Well, you've got the tyre/rolling resistance box ticked - although maybe another 10 psi could help a tad given your weight. The wider tyre will definitely have benefits in taking the load until you do shed a bit more weight. The fitter and personally lighter weight bits are where you'll gain most. As Lance says, it's not about the bike.

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Re: speed difference flat bar roadie to roadie

Postby sogood » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:51 pm

gtrainer wrote:I recon I should be right to avergae about 30kmph soon....

Things get exponentially harder at higher speed. So don't under-estimate 30km/h average.
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Re: speed difference flat bar roadie to roadie

Postby Nobody » Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:17 pm

sogood wrote:
gtrainer wrote:I recon I should be right to avergae about 30kmph soon....

Things get exponentially harder at higher speed. So don't under-estimate 30km/h average.

@gtrainer:
And it really depends on the terrain. To average 30Km/h means you really have to be doing 33Km/h+ on the flat with little stopping or slowing and very few steep hills. Although I'm no legend rider and also middle aged, I do end up passing quite a few people. But I never see a 30Km/h+ average pushing my own wind. I'm sure there are plenty of young fast riders out there averaging 30Km/h+ pushing their own wind, but I rarely see them where I ride.

Waits for all the living legends to post about how wonderful they are and how they average 40Km/h on their TT bikes. And no, I'm not riding around the nursing home...
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Re: speed difference flat bar roadie to roadie

Postby gtrainer » Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:20 pm

great replies there, i wont do anything yet until I get a bit fitter and lighter....
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Re: speed difference flat bar roadie to roadie

Postby wombatK » Tue Aug 16, 2011 9:50 pm

Nobody wrote:But I never see a 30Km/h+ average pushing my own wind. I'm sure there are plenty of young fast riders out there averaging 30Km/h+ pushing their own wind, but I rarely see them where I ride.

Have to agree that peeps reported average speeds are a bit like fisherman's tales - there's often a fair bit of embellishment of the fish's actual dimensions.

Nevertheless, OP's second post indicated his interest was in riding with his neighbours group. So you'd expect the average speeds they mention are paceline efforts rather than "pushing my own wind". There's a huge benefit to drafting others (20 to 30% less power), and it's probably not unreasonable to think that if he can up his solo pushing-my-own-wind average to 25 kph, he might have a chance of hanging on to a bunch that averages 30 kph - especially if there's a bit of bravado in the bunch's reported average.

It's pretty hard to find anywhere around urban areas where you can average that kind of speed even in a car.

Of course, if OP hails from a rural area, all bets are off - the 30 kph average could be credible. But he will have to learn how to paceline, and that's not as easy as it looks.

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Re: speed difference flat bar roadie to roadie

Postby sogood » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:03 pm

I have averaged 30km/h on a Waterfall return, in a bunch. But it's solid work when one adds in the solo section b/n home and meeting point (20km out of combine 100km). A solid tailwind and well timed traffic lights can help.
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Re: speed difference flat bar roadie to roadie

Postby wombatK » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:21 pm

sogood wrote:I have averaged 30km/h on a Waterfall return, in a bunch. But it's solid work when one adds in the solo section b/n home and meeting point (20km out of combine 100km). A solid tailwind and well timed traffic lights can help.

Let me guess - you did that on a weekend morning, probably a Sunday, finishing before sparrow's ? At that time, it's getting a bit like a rural ride. And it could easily be calm while you headed south, with a nice assisting southerly tailwind springing up after you turned around at Waterfall. Sometimes you get all the luck :)

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Re: speed difference flat bar roadie to roadie

Postby mikesbytes » Tue Aug 16, 2011 10:27 pm

Also have a look at your steerer, is there some shims under your stem? if so, its an easy job to lower the handlebars and make a small aerodynamic gain for no cost
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Re: speed difference flat bar roadie to roadie

Postby open roader » Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:45 pm

Nobody wrote:But I never see a 30Km/h+ average pushing my own wind. I'm sure there are plenty of young fast riders out there averaging 30Km/h+ pushing their own wind, but I rarely see them where I ride.


Have to agree that peeps reported average speeds are a bit like fisherman's tales - there's often a fair bit of embellishment of the fish's actual dimensions.


I should have make a point of qualifying my own big fish as being all non-stop / obstacle free country road riding........
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Re: speed difference flat bar roadie to roadie

Postby gtrainer » Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:59 pm

well another 45kms this morning, at a 27.8kmph average.....

difference this time is I stayed on the large chainwheel for the whole trip....

really enjoyed it this morning, although was quite wrecked when i got home....
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Re: speed difference flat bar roadie to roadie

Postby mikesbytes » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:11 pm

1.8kph improvement, well done mate
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Re: speed difference flat bar roadie to roadie

Postby sogood » Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:16 pm

wombatK wrote:Let me guess - you did that on a weekend morning, probably a Sunday, finishing before sparrow's ? At that time, it's getting a bit like a rural ride. And it could easily be calm while you headed south, with a nice assisting southerly tailwind springing up after you turned around at Waterfall. Sometimes you get all the luck :)

You are a genius! ;)
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Re: speed difference flat bar roadie to roadie

Postby gtrainer » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:24 pm

thanks mikes,

did 18km this morning, went out to go hardish,

averaged 29kmph for the first 10kms, then turned home, realised it was into slight headwind and really struggled home....

finished on 26.2kmph average...

loving it though, and feeling heaps fitter already, even if it is only my lungs atm....
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Re: speed difference flat bar roadie to roadie

Postby mikesbytes » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:29 pm

Yeh, there will always be variables, especially the wind, so it can be hard to compare figures from day to day
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Re: speed difference flat bar roadie to roadie

Postby gtrainer » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:42 pm

yeah im figuring that,

some days I feel like im riding easy on the wind, the legs and lungs work well and i could ride all day

other sessions feel like im hitting walls
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Re: speed difference flat bar roadie to roadie

Postby wombatK » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:42 pm

gtrainer wrote:yeah im figuring that,

some days I feel like im riding easy on the wind, the legs and lungs work well and i could ride all day

other sessions feel like im hitting walls

You will hit walls if you don't think about recovery time and/or plan easier recovery rides. You felt like
you hit a wall after hards rides on two consecutive days. So that should tell
you it was too much. Back-off a little, take a rest day, and you'll find you improve even quicker.

BTW, the rate at which you are improving is really impressive. If you can keep that up, you might
have to set your sights on some competitive racing further down the track :)

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