Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

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Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

Postby Kemp » Fri Aug 05, 2011 4:19 pm

Hey folks,

After recently purchasing a new bike and realising how out of shape and dirty my old Dodsun was, I've decided to do a full clean and conversion of it into a flat bar roadie to commute on.

Here are some reference pics, I hope they're not too big:

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And a video of how noisy it is. I think the jockey wheels might be loose and upon testing them they shifted side to side a little. Maybe there are some other problems you gurus can identify/suggest from the noise alone.



I don't know much about the bike's history except that it was made in Taiwan and apparently sold in the early nineties. I picked it up second hand in about 2005, rode it for about a year, then left it in the shed until I had it serviced and fixed last year. When it wasn't so filthy it was actually quite nimble and reasonably quick and enjoyable to ride.

As you can see there is dirt/grit/rust around the bottom bracket, cranks, derailleurs, chain etc. All those great parts that drive the bike. I'm definitely a newbie mechanic. I can do every the average schmoe can like change a tire, tube, adjust derailleur limits etc. but my mechanical adventures have not gone past there.

Lately I've been reading Zinn's roadbike maintenance manual and ordered a decent toolset, and I'm determined to do all the repairs/upgrades myself no matter how long it takes or how frustrating it gets :twisted:. I can build just about any computer from scratch so I'm confident that with the right tools and information I should be able to repair the bike and clean everything.

So, sorry for waffling on. Here are my plans:

New flat bar. Will this mean new brake levers as well?
Shimano r500 wheelset. This wheel is designed for 8,9 or 10spd cassettes. Is it possible to use with my 7spd with some kind of spacer? (edit: nope it's a freewheel not a cassette.)
New flat pedals. Quills without toe clips aren't that comfortable.
New paint job. What's the best way to strip paint myself?
New saddle & seat post. That gel plush one is uncomfortable (believe it or not) and the seat post is rusted/too heavy.

And I don't know about these ones, but was hoping you guys could give me some advice based on what you've seen:

New chain? I was going to give this one a thorough cleaning and lubing but it does look pretty rooted. Note that it has been ridden in the wet and not lubricated ONCE (unless by the shop) since I've started riding it.
New freewheel? Teeth don't look that worn to me. Also don't know where I'd source a similar spec one from to avoid replacing too many other parts. Seems everywhere just stocks 9-11spd.

I was also wondering what tool I'd need to remove that freewheel? I remember going to my LBS when I was trying to get it changed over to a new rear wheel and the bloke came back and said, 'sorry we don't have the tools for this anymore, it's too old'. Bit bizarre. At least I think it's a freewheel and not a cassette.

But I'm fairly sure the r500 wheels have cassette freehubs. If I were to get a new cassette, could I just ditch a few rings? Or could I theoretically change it to a 9spd for instance?

Any help would be great!
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by BNA » Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:18 pm

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Re: Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

Postby familyguy » Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:18 pm

Kemp wrote:Here are some reference pics, I hope they're not too big


The pics are not too big, but you must be a tall bloke, judging by the frame size AND seatpost extension!

Kemp wrote:New flat bar. Will this mean new brake levers as well?
Shimano r500 wheelset. This wheel is designed for 8,9 or 10spd cassettes. Is it possible to use with my 7spd with some kind of spacer? (edit: nope it's a freewheel not a cassette.)
New flat pedals. Quills without toe clips aren't that comfortable.
New paint job. What's the best way to strip paint myself?
New saddle & seat post. That gel plush one is uncomfortable (believe it or not) and the seat post is rusted/too heavy.


- New bars = new brake levers. Unless you use townie or moustache bars. They might look silly on this though.
- Wheels: see below.
- SPD pedals.
- Paint stripper, scraper, sandpaper and wire wheel if really required. Or just give it a light sand and paint over it. Or get it powdercoated, probably cost you about $90 depending on where you are. The current paint actually looks OK. If it cleans up nicely I'd leave it. You dont see many paint jobs like that around any more.
- A lighter seatpost isnt going to have much of an impact on the overall weight. If the seatpost is too heavy, the rest of the bike is probably too heavy. Polish that one up, and the stem. Bling, bling!

Kemp wrote:But I'm fairly sure the r500 wheels have cassette freehubs. If I were to get a new cassette, could I just ditch a few rings? Or could I theoretically change it to a 9spd for instance?


You can change it to 9, 10 or 11 speed. Rear spacing (between dropouts) is probably 126mm currently. 9/10/11 speed rear spacing requires 130mm. Not a big change. You can either cold set it or just pull it open each time you put the wheel into it. Read this: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

Jim
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Re: Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

Postby Kemp » Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:58 pm

Thanks for your insights Jim.

After having a browse around a few websites I'm thinking of a shimano tiagra 8spd with the right chain. How will this affect the chain rings? Should they run okay? I don't know if that biopace set was designed to run with anything in particular.
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Re: Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

Postby Robdog » Sat Aug 06, 2011 12:19 am

Kemp wrote:Thanks for your insights Jim.

After having a browse around a few websites I'm thinking of a shimano tiagra 8spd with the right chain. How will this affect the chain rings? Should they run okay? I don't know if that biopace set was designed to run with anything in particular.

Nothing wrong with you using 10spd with your current setup, definitely swapping only the RD, chain and cassette (wheels of course) although you may also have to get new chainrings. 8speed is likely to become more obsolete shortly with the upgrade in the Shimano range to 9/10 speed imminent. Shouldn't cost you more than $150 without chainrings, and you should be able to get a 10spd chainset for around $50 if you keep your eyes on the Marketplace section for a couple weeks
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Re: Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

Postby trouserlord » Sun Aug 07, 2011 1:33 am

The freewheel is a 4-prong SunTour and removal tools are readily available on Ebuy, eg:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Park-Tool-FR ... 3cb72836fc

As always, see Sheldon for all the details:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/freewheels.html

Freewheels are always very tight, so follow his procedure exactly and you won't damage anything! :D
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Re: Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

Postby munga » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:35 am

don't forget that if you use indexing (click-click-click) on your downtube shifters, then 7-speed it is.
you can buy 8- and maybe 9-speed shimano indexed downtube shifters if you like, or you can turn the knob and go friction shifting on your existing shifters.
you can run 8 or 9 speed friction with your existing shifters.

have you considered getting a 7speed shimano hub and getting it laced to your existing rims (or even new rims and spokes)?
pitty43 wrote:Thanks all for your help. Better change my Gumtree add now.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/retroclassiccycling/
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Re: Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

Postby Kemp » Sun Aug 07, 2011 11:25 am

Using new rims and spokes with the existing hub is something I should have considered. But alas I got over excited and made a few quick orders over the net.

I'll be running 8 speed, but I'm having trouble finding a place to buy some new 105 downtube shifters. If I can't find any I can always use friction shifting but I'd rather the index for the rear. Or I could just knock off the 12 ring on my cassette and use some kind of spacer. But I actually wouldn't mind investing in a new pair of shifters because I want something that's going to match my new paint job :) .

Is ebay my best bet for those shifters?
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Re: Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

Postby rkelsen » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:17 pm

munga wrote:don't forget that if you use indexing (click-click-click) on your downtube shifters, then 7-speed it is.

You can use 7 speed d/t shifters with an 8 speed cassette. The 8th 'click' is provided by the derailleur limit 'low' screw. It works well, I've been using this setup for a couple of years now.
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Re: Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

Postby Kemp » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:07 pm

rkelsen wrote:
munga wrote:don't forget that if you use indexing (click-click-click) on your downtube shifters, then 7-speed it is.

You can use 7 speed d/t shifters with an 8 speed cassette. The 8th 'click' is provided by the derailleur limit 'low' screw. It works well, I've been using this setup for a couple of years now.


That would make sense. Whenever I reach the current low-limit I can still push the lever down a little bit extra feel the cable tightening, so it seems I may have some slack to work with.

Worst case scenario means I'll have to buy some new shifters (if for some strange reason it doesn't work). But the longer I have to wait the longer I'm off the bike! Hopefully my gear arrives this coming week. The disassembly/cleaning of everything/painting/reassembly will probably take at least a week from there.
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Re: Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

Postby uncle arthur » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:11 pm

I have some downtube shifters you can have - I'll even polish them for you.

PM for details.
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Re: Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

Postby Kemp » Mon Aug 08, 2011 5:41 pm

So it looks like I've run into a bit of a problem.

While removing everything from the frame this afternoon, I somehow managed to completely round off the handlebar clamp bolt on the stem. It was impossibly tight to begin with and I couldn't loosen it by hand. Stupidly I then put the allen key back in the slot and banged it with a heavy thing. In true idiot form I then thought I'd do it a few more times to make it even harder to get any traction inside the bolt.

What's my plan of attack here? It's not %100 necessary that I remove the handlebars but it would make things a lot easier.
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Re: Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

Postby Kemp » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:39 pm

Finally managed to remove that handlebars from the stem. Bit of RP7 and a new allen key did the trick.

Cleaned and polished all other components and they're looking nice and shiny. Unbelievable what a bit of sanding and polish can do to some parts that look absolutely hideous.

Just waiting on my tools to arrive in the post so I can remove the cranks and BB and start priming for my coat of paint. I've tried paint stripping and sanding the old coat and both are proving much harder than I expected. Next time I'm just going to sand blast and save myself the time.
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Re: Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

Postby beev » Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:43 am

Hi,
I also have a Dodsun Triaction that I recently dragged out to use as a commuter. Stripped it down cleaned it up and added flat bars. First thing I noticed is that using down tube shifters with flat bars is a real pain and a little unnerving in traffic so I added some 8 speed flat shifters, they work quite well with the 7 speed cassette. like you say rides real well

would post an image but don't think I can
Just realized I could link to this

http://www.mtbdirt.com.au/beev/my-rides/view/ride/362

Most satisfying this is I bought this bike new and she is still going
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Re: Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

Postby Fujitsa » Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:05 pm

Kemp wrote:Finally managed to remove that handlebars from the stem. Bit of RP7 and a new allen key did the trick.

Cleaned and polished all other components and they're looking nice and shiny. Unbelievable what a bit of sanding and polish can do to some parts that look absolutely hideous.

Just waiting on my tools to arrive in the post so I can remove the cranks and BB and start priming for my coat of paint. I've tried paint stripping and sanding the old coat and both are proving much harder than I expected. Next time I'm just going to sand blast and save myself the time.


Oh man! that was a damn cool paint job you had on your bike! sad to see that it will be gone, What kind of color scheme did you plan on doing? and using what paint?. I've stripped a fair few bicycles down, using all sorts of methods, the best way i think, would have been those 3M abrasive tools you can attach to you drill, or a sandblasting machine!

Best advice I can give you when your working on your bike, is not to rush anything! Take your time, and if it becomes too frustrating take a little break, I always find that when I'm working on my bicycles that if I get too excited or frustrated, I do tend to do things that can't be reversed!

Post up a few picture when ur done, would like to see the new paint job!
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Re: Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

Postby Kemp » Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:44 pm

beev wrote:Hi,
I also have a Dodsun Triaction that I recently dragged out to use as a commuter. Stripped it down cleaned it up and added flat bars. First thing I noticed is that using down tube shifters with flat bars is a real pain and a little unnerving in traffic so I added some 8 speed flat shifters, they work quite well with the 7 speed cassette. like you say rides real well

would post an image but don't think I can
Just realized I could link to this

http://www.mtbdirt.com.au/beev/my-rides/view/ride/362

Most satisfying this is I bought this bike new and she is still going


That's a really nice looking bike. I decided not to go with the flat bar for the moment. I kind of like getting down into the drops now and then.

What year did you buy the bike?

Fujitsa wrote:
Oh man! that was a damn cool paint job you had on your bike! sad to see that it will be gone, What kind of color scheme did you plan on doing? and using what paint?. I've stripped a fair few bicycles down, using all sorts of methods, the best way i think, would have been those 3M abrasive tools you can attach to you drill, or a sandblasting machine!

Best advice I can give you when your working on your bike, is not to rush anything! Take your time, and if it becomes too frustrating take a little break, I always find that when I'm working on my bicycles that if I get too excited or frustrated, I do tend to do things that can't be reversed!

Post up a few picture when ur done, would like to see the new paint job!


I must be the only one that didn't like the paint! Although for practicalities sake it would have been much, much easier to leave it on and I would have riding the bike a lot sooner. To be honest I'm sort of regretting stripping it now...

I'm also very impatient when it comes to this kind of stuff. Especially since I have all these nice parts sitting around waiting to go on the bike. I primed it today (first sunny day in Melbourne for 2 weeks) and will put on the first coat of paint in the morning.

But I'm in two minds about the colour at the moment. I've bought 2 cans of a yellow that would look nice but wasn't my original choice. I could go hunting for the exact colour I was thinking and call it 30 bucks in the hole for the other cans. Or just paint on the yellow and be on the bike sooner.

Okay, writing it out just made me realise how silly it would be to paint a colour I wasn't even happy with :oops:

Hopefully I'll have some pics of it painted and built by Tuesday night
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Re: Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

Postby beev » Sun Aug 21, 2011 2:45 pm

That's a really nice looking bike. I decided not to go with the flat bar for the moment. I kind of like getting down into the drops now and then.

What year did you buy the bike?


I have been trying to figure that out. I moved to Brisbane in 1995 and I had had it few years by then, it would probably be about 91 or 92 at a guess. Mine is a little different as it has a shimano cassette hub and quick release on the back, still 7 speed though. I bought it in Sydney.

The shop that helped me flat bar it was impressed, said it had "definite cool factor" The old lugged steel frames are in demand.

I have kept all the original parts bar the seat in case I ever want to change it back.
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Re: Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

Postby Kemp » Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:07 pm

There is a definite cool factor to the old steel frames. While I enjoy the speed and whippyness of my new alu/carbon bike it does feel a little 'soulless'. There is something timeless about the steel frames and their simplicity.

I hunted around for the deep orange colour I wanted but couldn't find it so put on the first coat of yellow this morning. Looks pretty good and I'll chuck the second on tomorrow. Excited to post some pics!
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Re: Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

Postby Fujitsa » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:20 am

Kemp wrote:There is a definite cool factor to the old steel frames. While I enjoy the speed and whippyness of my new alu/carbon bike it does feel a little 'soulless'. There is something timeless about the steel frames and their simplicity.


Yeah mate, steel frames are the way to go, fell in love and haven't looked back, everything about them is awesome, the way they feel, the way they look! I bought my self a 70's concorde frame a while back, and have had that as my roadie ever since, and when i got into MTBing bought me a nice on one 456 frame! best decisions ever!
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Re: Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

Postby fatherofmany » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:44 pm

So cool to see another couple of Dodsun riders. Well I'm an ex-dodsun, I gave mine away about 8 years ago and wish I didn't. I had a '92 I think, similar spec, biopace cranks and 105. Cost me over $500 back then so they're not a dodgy ride.

It's taken me ages to find something comparible at a decent price, still in the shed waiting for some tender lovin' care is an old Centurion Turbo 7000 which eases the pain somewhat.

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Re: Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

Postby Kemp » Tue Aug 23, 2011 7:07 pm

I've never seen anyone else riding one. Thought I was alone!

Anyway, finally some progress pictures. Hopefully I can get it finished and polished by tomorrow and do some comparison shots with the old bike.

Image
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Re: Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

Postby fatherofmany » Wed Aug 24, 2011 11:23 am

Nice. Although I did like the old paintjob too. Good to see colour on these old bikes, it sure beats the boring black or white or both that you see on most modern cf jobbies.
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Re: Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

Postby EnfantDeGuerre » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:07 am

I have just acquired a 10-15 year old Dodsun. I will post pics shortly.
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Re: Building up a Dodsun-triaction.

Postby EnfantDeGuerre » Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:31 pm

Here is the Dodsun that I picked up. It is about 10-12 years old and has clipless pedals and Shimano RSX hardware. Double butted Tange Cr-Mo.
Image
http://imageshack.us/photo/photo/526/imagecjbn.jpg
Don't seem to be able to drop the image in on this phone. Hopefully you will be able to use the URL.
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